Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[D365]

We did have a single master Vivarail thread many years ago on this website, but the forum staff felt it was too unwieldy with too many different items being discussed.

The thread(s) I was inferring were set up in light of Vivarail having entered administration. I suspect this one will be the most relevant for further discussion.

 

[Wyrleybart]

No the MTU Hybrid power packs can power the train without the diesel running they can arrive and leave stations on battery only.


quote from Rolls Royce press release - https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/o...rney-in-the-uk-with-mtu-hybrid-powerpack.aspx

Apologies Tom, and thanks for the correction

 

[Chester1]

But there are battery diesel hybrids in Europe.
Vivarail has got to the point where the 230s could enter service.
Surprised new diesel mechanical transmission trains are still being ordered in the UK, but the current government target to stop using diesel is 2050.
Ideally someone should be able to buy part of Vivarail and progress the work Vivarail started.

I don't think they are still being ordered. If the 230 project is revived they might be an exception due to not needing to be in service for as long as a new train. The TfW and WMR orders were the last orders for new stock. Even on the assumption that new DMUs run until 31/12/2049 I can't see how finances will stack up now. Battery EMUs or bi modes or battery bi modes are the immediate future for non electrified lines. Diesel engines can then be removed when they are no longer necessary.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I don't think they (Diesel mechanical MUs) are still being ordered. If the 230 project is revived they might be an exception due to not needing to be in service for as long as a new train. The TfW and WMR orders were the last orders for new stock.

The diesel 230s are diesel-electric, are they not? (Why do the battery ones not get their own class number?)

 

[D365]

The diesel 230s are diesel-electric, are they not? (Why do the battery ones not get their own class number?)

They're a small enough fleet that it doesn't matter.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They're a small enough fleet that it doesn't matter.

Yet the isle of Wight units did get their own class number

 

[zwk500]

Yet the isle of Wight units did get their own class number

They were pure 3rd rail though, so couldn't stay as class 230

 

[meld3]

and yet the Welsh 769's are purely DMUs but still numbered as electrics rather than class 169 or 269....

 

[zwk500]

and yet the Welsh 769's are purely DMUs but still numbered as electrics rather than class 169 or 269....

I've given up trying to understand the logic behind it all. Like platform numbering, various people have theories on what philosophy is behind it, but when you look at anything there appears to be an awful lot of 'what the bloke in the office at that time on Friday' decided...
EMU Classes into the 700s when 3xx remain, the re-use of 99 despite 94 being available etc

 

[Bob Price]

and yet the Welsh 769's are purely DMUs but still numbered as electrics rather than class 169 or 269....

They do operate on diesel but if the paragraphs are put back on they can operate as electrics.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They were pure 3rd rail though, so couldn't stay as class 230

It is getting very complicated. 230001 has been converted to a battery-electric, taking power from a rail-based (rather than overhead) supply. Does that make it a 484/1?

 

[zwk500]

It is getting very complicated. 230001 has been converted to a battery-electric, taking power from a rail-based (rather than overhead) supply. Does that make it a 484/1?

At this point it could just as easily be a class Z6

 

[D365]

At that sort of level, you’ll find that sensical TOPS classifications are equally as important for engineers.

 

[DavidGrain]

And 230011 has gone straight for export to America so not really needing a UK number.

 

[MotCO]

They do operate on diesel but if the paragraphs are put back on they can operate as electrics.

I didn't realise that motive power relied on good grammar!

 

[krus_aragon]

I didn't realise that motive power relied on good grammar!

Many an English teacher has told students that good language skills will result in you going places...

 

[Bob Price]

Many an English teacher has told students that good language skills will result in you going places...

And we can bring that one to a full stop.

 

[childwallblues]

Went past Birkenhead North depot today and noted 230010 230008 and 230007 all on the depot.

 

[Roger B]

Went past today and 230006 had joined them. Just 230009 elsewhere.

 

[Pacef8]

Any updates on introduction and a 30 min service ?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Any updates on introduction and a 30 min service ?

The ORR and Network Rail have approved a 30min service but I don't believe the 230s have moved for a while, probably due to Vivarail's issues and TFW trying to work out what to do with them.

 

[L401CJF]

I had an email from my manager recently with some general company updates. It stated 230 training is to commence again in the coming weeks and they will be coming into service at some point.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I had an email from my manager recently with some general company updates. It stated 230 training is to commence again in the coming weeks and they will be coming into service at some point.

Good. Hopefully 197s can be introduced on the line soon too.

 

[D365]

I had an email from my manager recently with some general company updates. It stated 230 training is to commence again in the coming weeks and they will be coming into service at some point.

Appreciate the update - any news has to be seen as constructive at least.

 

[DelW]

I had an email from my manager recently with some general company updates. It stated 230 training is to commence again in the coming weeks and they will be coming into service at some point.

This isn't any criticism of your posting, as I appreciate the update, but erm, how often have we heard optimistic statements like that before, and over how long a period?

There were similar repeated statements made about the GWR 769s (now to go off lease without ever having been used) and the SWR 701s (still in storage several years after their intended introduction). I believe there have been similar issues with the new Merseyside stock, though I haven't followed that saga myself.

These statements inevitably lack credibility after so many missed dates.

 

[L401CJF]

This isn't any criticism of your posting, as I appreciate the update, but erm, how often have we heard optimistic statements like that before, and over how long a period?

There were similar repeated statements made about the GWR 769s (now to go off lease without ever having been used) and the SWR 701s (still in storage several years after their intended introduction). I believe there have been similar issues with the new Merseyside stock, though I haven't followed that saga myself.

These statements inevitably lack credibility after so many missed dates.

I agree with your comment 100%. I am aware this has been going on for a long time with plenty of "they're coming soon" posts etc.

If anything all it shows is that they've not been given up on just yet.

I believe if Vivarail didn't go into administration they would have been in service by now, things were so close when the announcement came. Big shame.

 

[Pacef8]

Thanks everyone .

 

[DelW]

If anything all it shows is that they've not been given up on just yet.

Indeed, that at least is a positive. Metaphorically I'll keep my fingers crossed but not hold my breath .

 

[43102EMR]

There were similar repeated statements made about the GWR 769s (now to go off lease without ever having been used) and the SWR 701s (still in storage several years after their intended introduction). I believe there have been similar issues with the new Merseyside stock, though I haven't followed that saga

I mean, given Vivarail’s current situation, the email could have had the opportunity to say “Owing to lack of support from manufacturer Vivarail, we will be handing the units back” as opposed to what was actually said - to me that provides more optimism as to their eventual introduction to service.

 

[43096]

I mean, given Vivarail’s current situation, the email could have had the opportunity to say “Owing to lack of support from manufacturer Vivarail, we will be handing the units back” as opposed to what was actually said - to me that provides more optimism as to their eventual introduction to service.

They can't hand them back as TfW own them!