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East-West Rail (EWR): Oxford-Bletchley construction progress

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zwk500

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I won't pretend I know the area well, but I remember hitching with friend from Bletchley (or close by) with a friend to Quainton Rd in Sept 1969 along what were country roads, with the odd car here and there.

In 2007 (I think it was) I drove from Ayelsbury one weekday at about 18.00 to MK via Quainton. I was staggered at the amount of traffic on the roads. Of course, nothing like all was going twixt Aylesbury and MK, but a proportion for sure would consider a rail service were one provided, even then.
There is certainly a good-sized Aylesbury-MK commuter flow. How much of that is on flexi-time or WFH post-covid I don't know, but if you then add in potential for Manchester/Scotland traffic avoiding Birmingham, and Aylesbury-West Mids traffic where Avanti is more convenient than changing between Birmingham stations, there's a good passenger base for Aylesbury-MK services.
 
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Bletchleyite

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In 2007 (I think it was) I drove from Ayelsbury one weekday at about 18.00 to MK via Quainton. I was staggered at the amount of traffic on the roads. Of course, nothing like all was going twixt Aylesbury and MK, but a proportion for sure would consider a rail service were one provided, even then.

Don't forget that most people going between Aylesbury and MK won't be going via Quainton. Depending which bit of MK is involved it'll either be the A413 or via Wing. Both roads are very busy in the peaks.
 

hwl

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I believe testing should happen in 2024 with passenger services commencing in 2025.

Testing spring 24, service is meant to start for the Dec 24 timetable change.
Start of service is a manifesto commitment (ditto Project Oval for contactless ticketing) hence the Dec 2024 deadline for both to meet nominal next election timing.
 

cle

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Is it still planned to begin with 4tph from Oxford - 2tph to MKC and 2tph to Bedford?

Any updates on the platform/pathing for those two termini?
 

Bletchleyite

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Is it still planned to begin with 4tph from Oxford - 2tph to MKC and 2tph to Bedford?

Any updates on the platform/pathing for those two termini?

Just the 2tph to MKC to start with I believe.

MKC platform will be 2A, that was built for EWR and has been disused since Southern stopped using it. Presumably Oxford will be one of the "Chiltern" bays.
 

swt_passenger

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Just the 2tph to MKC to start with I believe.
That’s right, it’s known as “connection stage 1” on the NR project page. Though services to Bedford come “later”, which is not defined anywhere. IIRC this has been the case since about summer 2021
 

zwk500

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That’s right, it’s known as “connection stage 1” on the NR project page. Though services to Bedford come “later”, which is not defined anywhere. IIRC this has been the case since about summer 2021
The Bedford services will likely be waiting to work out what, if anything, is to be done with the Marston Vale line. No point rebuilding platforms at stations you intend to demolish, and that sort of thing.
 

swt_passenger

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The Bedford services will likely be waiting to work out what, if anything, is to be done with the Marston Vale line. No point rebuilding platforms at stations you intend to demolish, and that sort of thing.
As you say, and it’s noteworthy that no work at all has started on that part of the route, despite the TWA order allowing for quite a few capacity related changes.

However this has been discussed a few times earlier in this thread, and the negative implications for the through services have seemed fairly obvious with hindsight. It’s getting into consultation territory though, and there‘s a separate thread for that.
 

cle

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Just the 2tph to MKC to start with I believe.

MKC platform will be 2A, that was built for EWR and has been disused since Southern stopped using it. Presumably Oxford will be one of the "Chiltern" bays.
Cool. I meant Bedford for the other terminus (assumed Chiltern bays) - but sounds like that is deferred. I can't see why 1tph couldn't run along Marston today, even if fast after Bletchley or with 1-2 stops which definitely won't close. But still exciting to see the 2tph.

Is it correct that the AVP-Winslow rebuild / new trackage and connection to EWR is still happening? Even if the passenger service isn't currently scoped?
 

swt_passenger

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Cool. I meant Bedford for the other terminus (assumed Chiltern bays) - but sounds like that is deferred. I can't see why 1tph couldn't run along Marston today, even if fast after Bletchley or with 1-2 stops which definitely won't close. But still exciting to see the 2tph.

Is it correct that the AVP-Winslow rebuild / new trackage and connection to EWR is still happening? Even if the passenger service isn't currently scoped?
The evidence from recent aerial shots and videos in the now closed HS2 thread is that the new chord‘s earthworks are already being built. (It’s basically repositioned slightly to the east compared to its previous location. Posts earlier in this thread suggests HS2 are required to reinstate the link, the freight companies expect it to be available to them, and the only real question is about the passenger service.
 

Brubulus

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The Bedford services will likely be waiting to work out what, if anything, is to be done with the Marston Vale line. No point rebuilding platforms at stations you intend to demolish, and that sort of thing.
With the Marston Vale, the current temporary closure could be used to at least exactly determine what works are needed to increase linespeed to 75-90 mph and begin to action on them
 

zwk500

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With the Marston Vale, the current temporary closure could be used to at least exactly determine what works are needed to increase linespeed to 75-90 mph and begin to action on them
The line isn't closed - freight and departmental trains are still running. There's nothing really that needs to be determined until a decision is made on which options are to be taken. All prep surveys will have been done and detailed work is option-dependent.
 

swt_passenger

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With the Marston Vale, the current temporary closure could be used to at least exactly determine what works are needed to increase linespeed to 75-90 mph and begin to action on them
That would be scope increase though. There are no plans to increase the line speed on Marston Vale, it was ruled out by DfT prior to the TWA application. Works are required to deal with increased level crossing risks only.
 

Brubulus

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That would be scope increase though. There are no plans to increase the line speed on Marston Vale, it was ruled out by DfT prior to the TWA application. Works are required to deal with increased level crossing risks only.
So EWR will be long term limited to 60MPH on the Marston Vale? Seems very weird indeed, especially given that the only major reasons I know of (apart from mantainance) are level crossing risk and the spacing between stations. I had been of the belief that there was going to be a full rebuild of the Marston Vale for EWR but I am wrong.
It can't be too expensive for a speed increase on the line?
 

swt_passenger

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So EWR will be long term limited to 60MPH on the Marston Vale? Seems very weird indeed, especially given that the only major reasons I know of (apart from mantainance) are level crossing risk and the spacing between stations. I had been of the belief that there was going to be a full rebuild of the Marston Vale for EWR but I am wrong.
It can't be too expensive for a speed increase on the line?
That’s what DfT have decided for the current project. I expect that may change if or when the full route to Cambridge ever happens, but we’re supposed to be limiting this thread’s discussion to what is currently being constructed.
 

12LDA28C

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Just the 2tph to MKC to start with I believe.

MKC platform will be 2A, that was built for EWR and has been disused since Southern stopped using it. Presumably Oxford will be one of the "Chiltern" bays.

How will that fit in with Chiltern's 2 TPH from Oxford to Marylebone? There would have to be some creative timetabling / very brief turn round times to fit all those trains in the bays, along with the various GWR movements that also use the bays.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Cool. I meant Bedford for the other terminus (assumed Chiltern bays) - but sounds like that is deferred. I can't see why 1tph couldn't run along Marston today, even if fast after Bletchley or with 1-2 stops which definitely won't close. But still exciting to see the 2tph.

Is it correct that the AVP-Winslow rebuild / new trackage and connection to EWR is still happening? Even if the passenger service isn't currently scoped?

The railway is being rebuilt as 90mph north of Greatmoor then remaining 30mph as it is currently, between Greatmoor and Aylesbury Vale Parkway until further notice I believe.
 
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DavidGrain

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Is it correct that the AVP-Winslow rebuild / new trackage and connection to EWR is still happening? Even if the passenger service isn't currently scoped?


The line from Aylesbury to the junction with EWR is currently closed and taken up just north of Quainton Road. This is because the right of way is required for HS2. I understand it will not be reinstated as a new line to the east of of the HS2 line until the HS2 has advanced further. The intention was always that this would remain as a single track link. I am surprised because I would have thought that a rail link to the HS2 construction site would have been an advantage. However I understand that the former trackbed will be used in the interim as a road for delivery of construction materials.

The introduction of trains from Aylesbury to join EWR has been put on hold.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

How will that fit in with Chiltern's 2 TPH from Oxford to Marylebone? There would have to be some creative timetabling / very brief turn round times to fit all those trains in the bays, along with the various GWR movements that also use the bays.
I have not looked at Oxford Station movements lately but I do know that some Chiltern trains arrive in platform 3 and run to Hinksey to reverse and then come in to platform 4 to head to Marylebone.
I have not looked at the December timetable yet although I do plan to use the Chiltern service from Oxford after Christmas but I am aware that there are often two Chiltern trains in platforms 1 & 2 as one arrives and the other departs. There is still a single track bottleneck for the Bicester line which will need to be sorted.
Last time I was on a GWR service from Banbury we came into platform 3 and the train then reversed into the sidings north of the station.
Work is just starting on the construction of platform 5 at Oxford which is needed as there are times when three trains can be queuing to get into platform 4.
 
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The Planner

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How will that fit in with Chiltern's 2 TPH from Oxford to Marylebone? There would have to be some creative timetabling / very brief turn round times to fit all those trains in the bays, along with the various GWR movements that also use the bays.
Give E-W to Chiltern, interwork the services.
The line from Aylesbury to the junction with EWR is currently closed and taken up just north of Quainton Road. This is because the right of way is required for HS2. I understand it will not be reinstated as a new line to the east of of the HS2 line until the HS2 has advanced further. The intention was always that this would remain as a single track link. I am surprised because I would have thought that a rail link to the HS2 construction site would have been an advantage. However I understand that the former trackbed will be used in the interim as a road for delivery of construction materials.

The introduction of trains from Aylesbury to join EWR has been put on hold.
Quainton Road, where the line ends currently, is getting HS2 construction traffic already. Its Quainton Railhead on RTT.
 

12LDA28C

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I have not looked at Oxford Station movements lately but I do know that some Chiltern trains arrive in platform 3 and run to Hinksey to reverse and then come in to platform 4 to head to Marylebone.
I have not looked at the December timetable yet although I do plan to use the Chiltern service from Oxford after Christmas but I am aware that there are often two Chiltern trains in platforms 1 & 2 as one arrives and the other departs. There is still a single track bottleneck for the Bicester line which will need to be sorted.
Last time I was on a GWR service from Banbury we came into platform 3 and the train then reversed into the sidings north of the station.
Work is just starting on the construction of platform 5 at Oxford which is needed as there are times when three trains can be queuing to get into platform 4.

That was generally the case for loco-hauled sets that were too long for the 6-car bay platforms but loco-hauled services to Oxford have now ceased.

There is no 'bottleneck' - Chiltern services, while generally signalled in / out of Oxford via the 'Jericho' line are perfectly capable of being routed onto the Up or Down Oxford main lines instead.
 

70014IronDuke

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Don't forget that most people going between Aylesbury and MK won't be going via Quainton. Depending which bit of MK is involved it'll either be the A413 or via Wing. Both roads are very busy in the peaks.
Oh, I'm sure you are correct. I might have gone via the A413 myself one evening (I can't remember if I did two trips or just one.) The point I was trying to make was that in 1969 it was country lanes with a Ford Anglia pottering along once every 4 minutes, while in c 2007, it was a maze of modern-ish A and B roads with 20 Fiestas etc charging past at 60-65 mph per minute. I was amazed at the traffic levels.
 

Andyjs247

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There is no 'bottleneck' - Chiltern services, while generally signalled in / out of Oxford via the 'Jericho' line are perfectly capable of being routed onto the Up or Down Oxford main lines instead.

However a bottleneck at Oxford still exists as trains to/from the bay Platforms 1&2 share the same track and do conflict with each other. This won’t change but the addition of platform 5 gives more flexibility for one of the through platforms eg Platform 3 to be occupied for longer and a train to turn round there.
 

zwk500

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However a bottleneck at Oxford still exists as trains to/from the bay Platforms 1&2 share the same track and do conflict with each other. This won’t change but the addition of platform 5 gives more flexibility for one of the through platforms eg Platform 3 to be occupied for longer and a train to turn round there.
The single lead to Platforms 1/2 is not a serious problem though, as it'd be very rare to schedule a departure less than 3 minutes before an arrival.
 

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DarloRich

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The passenger access bridge from the existing station to the new high level platforms is starting to go in at Bletchley
 

A0

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Cool. I meant Bedford for the other terminus (assumed Chiltern bays) - but sounds like that is deferred. I can't see why 1tph couldn't run along Marston today, even if fast after Bletchley or with 1-2 stops which definitely won't close. But still exciting to see the 2tph.

Is it correct that the AVP-Winslow rebuild / new trackage and connection to EWR is still happening? Even if the passenger service isn't currently scoped?

Bit in bold - I suspect the issue there is pathing. EWR are quoting a 20 min journey time between Bletchley and Bedford, the current stopping train takes about 45 mins - even if you pathed it to leave just before a Bletchley departure it'd be catching up with the previous train before Bedford. And then you have platform capacity at Bedford to consider, a couple of single track stretches and some freight over the Marston Vale and it's not that straightforward.
 

TiddlyPom

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It is correct that passengers won't be able to get in and out of the High Level station at Bletchley on to Saxon Street?

So, if you are on the platform nearest Saxon Street and want to leave the station you will have to: descend stairs, cross under the flyover, ascend stairs, cross the new bridge, cross the old bridge, descend stairs and finally exit through the existing booking hall?!
 

Bletchleyite

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It is correct that passengers won't be able to get in and out of the High Level station at Bletchley on to Saxon Street?

So, if you are on the platform nearest Saxon Street and want to leave the station you will have to: descend stairs, cross under the flyover, ascend stairs, cross the new bridge, cross the old bridge, descend stairs and finally exit through the existing booking hall?!

It is for now, yes. It's a quite irritating question of funding - the Council are proposing a major redevelopment of the area which would result in the station having a "proper" entrance on that side, and is likely to fund said entrance. So for now the railway doesn't want to build it (e.g. add a TVM and gates plus a lift as would be required for accessibility) despite the fact that it is building an emergency exit there.

It's a bit less of an issue than you'd think it would be, though, because Bletchley is very much a traffic source rather than a traffic sink - the current entrance faces the right way for most of the residential areas which provide its main use. There might I suppose be the odd person living in Winslow and working in the shops in Bletchley town centre, but it'll be relatively few. It's very unlikely anyone will live in Oxford and commute to Bletchley because the kind of jobs available on that side (mostly retail) are available there and the cost would be unjustifiable on minimum wage.

It would be handy to have an exit on that side for accessing the stadium, but for a large influx of football fans and gig-goers you may well want them going out the other way anyway as it would be easier to manage.

On the other hand it might annoy our resident Fenny Stratfordian a bit :)
 
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