Extending LNER Azumas to 9 Carriages

[AndrewP]

Having read the thread on additional trains for LNER I was wondering if it would be easier to just make a uniformed fleet of 9 car units by extending the 5 cars.

Yes there will be a lot of fresh air carried on lines like Harrogate but would this not be cheaper and easier than a new micro fleet?

 

[Ken H]

Having read the thread on additional trains for LNER I was wondering if it would be easier to just make a uniformed fleet of 9 car units by extending the 5 cars.

Yes there will be a lot of fresh air carried on lines like Harrogate but would this not be cheaper and easier than a new micro fleet?

does a 9 car fit everywhere they would need to? Extending platforms would be expensive

 

[irish_rail]

More needed on the Western right now if the money was available. Which it isn't.

 

[class26]

does a 9 car fit everywhere they would need to? Extending platforms would be expensive

Not in Lincoln.

 

[Chester1]

More needed on the Western right now if the money was available. Which it isn't.

Do you think LNERs tender for new stock will be dropped? I suggested in another thread to scrap the 225s when their leases expire next summer and transfer 807s due to be delivered to Avanti around the same time. 10 x 7 coaches would be adequate until finances alow an order to extend to 9 coaches. I am guessing 807 leases will be higher than 225s but for the network as a whole it cuts costs.

 

[Andyh82]

Having read the thread on additional trains for LNER I was wondering if it would be easier to just make a uniformed fleet of 9 car units by extending the 5 cars.

Yes there will be a lot of fresh air carried on lines like Harrogate but would this not be cheaper and easier than a new micro fleet?

Yes and it would also mean they don’t have to staff two buffets, two first class, two conductors etc when the 5 car units operate as 10 car services

You’d also not have the issue you often get when 10 cars are used instead of 9 or 9 instead of 10 in relation to seat reservations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd go with extend all LNER and GWR 80x to 9-car and send the spares to XC.

 

[Bald Rick]

Having read the thread on additional trains for LNER I was wondering if it would be easier to just make a uniformed fleet of 9 car units by extending the 5 cars.

Yes there will be a lot of fresh air carried on lines like Harrogate but would this not be cheaper and easier than a new micro fleet?

even easier, and cheaper, is not to have a micro fleet and not extend the Hitachi trains.

 

[YorksLad12]

My gripe with Lincoln having only 5-car units is that they do (or did) one of the peak-time runs from London to Leeds - either the 18.03 or 18.33. Since we don't do coupling up to a spare during the peak, a 7-car 802 or similar would be a compromise (1.5 First, 5.5 Standard).

 

[Chester1]

even easier, and cheaper, is not to have a micro fleet and not extend the Hitachi trains.

Would that be practical with LNER passenger numbers having slightly exceeded pre pandemic levels? Is there sufficient spare capacity?

 

[RobShipway]

So, 30 9 car class 801/2 and 13 9 car class 800/1 is not enough then? Unlike GWR, the majority of the LNER fleet is 9 cars with them only having 10 class 800/2 and 12 class 801/1. Whereas GWR has 36 Class 800/0 5 car units, 21 Class 800/3 9 cars units, 22 Class 802/0 5 car units and 14 class 802/1 9 car units. If anything it should be GWR, that get's some of it's 5 car IET units extended from 5 car to 9 car units.

even easier, and cheaper, is not to have a micro fleet and not extend the Hitachi trains.

I have to agree with Bald Rick's comment. rather than extend the Hitachi Trains or have a micro fleet, it would be easier if new 9 car units where built to replace the class 225 trains.

 

[Bald Rick]

Would that be practical with LNER passenger numbers having slightly exceeded pre pandemic levels? Is there sufficient spare capacity?

Loads - as their usable capacity is something like 20% bigger than it was Pre pandemic due to the Azumas much higher seating capacity in standard. It just needs a concentration of the capacity where it’s needed, and some different yield management.

 

[TheBigD]

Not in Lincoln.

Although not currently diagrammed, 9 car azumas were diagrammed daily to and from Lincoln for a while on the 0730 to Kings Cross and the 1906 return.

 

[Bald Rick]

I have to agree with Bald Rick's comment. rather than extend the Hitachi Trains or have a micro fleet, it would be easier if new 9 car units were built to replace the class 225 trains.

You might have misunderstood my comment. It is easier (and cheaper) to retire the 225s, and not get any other trains.

 

[AndrewP]

Seems my thought wasn't as silly as I thought it might be.

Interesting that the same logic might work for GWR - never thought of that as I don't travel with them living in the North East.

As for the alternative being no order or from other fleets these are valid suggestions but I was thinking more on the basis of if LNER got new carriages would this be a better approach

 

[Chester1]

Loads - as their usable capacity is something like 20% bigger than it was Pre pandemic due to the Azumas much higher seating capacity in standard. It just needs a concentration of the capacity where it’s needed, and some different yield management.

Sounds like a good idea then. Lumo's launch probably helps a bit too. If the government scraps the 225s and it is a bad decision then then the open accessor operators will step in. I doubt the 180s microfleet will last long at EMR and it would be straightforward for Grand Central to take them if they are interested in additional services or more doubled up sets.

 

[JonathanH]

If the government scraps the 225s and it is a bad decision then then the open accessor operators will step in.

How will open access operators step in? If the 225s go, the Azumas will be spread across the most lucrative services on the East Coast, with 5-car and 9-car Azumas allocated appropriately. Open Access needs to cherry pick profitable operations, not run unremunerative services, as it has no source of subsidy.

I doubt the 180s microfleet will last long at EMR and it would be straightforward for Grand Central to take them if they are interested in additional services or more doubled up sets.

While it may be true that EMR will release 180s, can Grand Central really afford to take them on to run additional services or doubled up formations?

Just as the simple answer for LNER is not to extend 5-car Azumas to 9-car, the simple answer is for Grand Central to remain a 5-car operation.