What’s going on with Thameslink?

[Magdalen Road]

The latest shambles - frozen ballast meant that the Hitchin / Royston engineering works haven't been completed. So *no* trains down from Cambridge to King's Cross or St Pancras tomorrow. All day.
National rail planner very unhelpful. Looks like yet another extended journey via Tottenham Hale as no replacement buses.
This week is going to be appalling. I'm having to stay in London for several days for work thanks to the strikes so this is a lovely amuse bouche.
The cold weather was forecast, is there no alternative storage for the ballast to avoid this?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The latest shambles - frozen ballast meant that the Hitchin / Royston engineering works haven't been completed. So *no* trains down from Cambridge to King's Cross or St Pancras tomorrow. All day.
National rail planner very unhelpful. Looks like yet another extended journey via Tottenham Hale as no replacement buses.
This week is going to be appalling. I'm having to stay in London for several days for work thanks to the strikes so this is a lovely amuse bouche.
The cold weather was forecast, is there no alternative storage for the ballast to avoid this?

There supposed to treat the loaded ballast at the LDC's when sub zero weather is predicted

 

[bramling]

The latest shambles - frozen ballast meant that the Hitchin / Royston engineering works haven't been completed. So *no* trains down from Cambridge to King's Cross or St Pancras tomorrow. All day.
National rail planner very unhelpful. Looks like yet another extended journey via Tottenham Hale as no replacement buses.
This week is going to be appalling. I'm having to stay in London for several days for work thanks to the strikes so this is a lovely amuse bouche.
The cold weather was forecast, is there no alternative storage for the ballast to avoid this?

So Cambridge to Brighton looks set to be pulled completely, even worse so does the Cambridge to King’s Cross stopping service, with Horsham to Peterborough making additional stops. Could they really not do any better than this?

This means Hitchin and Stevenage are down to 2tph GTR, same at Hatfield and Potters Bar.

I was planning to use the train tomorrow, once again car it will be.

 

[Sussex Ben]

It’s a shame they can’t keep the Cambridge to Brighton service running south of the river. Peak trains on Mondays have got notably busier in recent weeks, so the Bedford services could become very overcrowded, especially given the reduced service the rest of the week

 

[Horizon22]

It’s a shame they can’t keep the Cambridge to Brighton service running south of the river. Peak trains on Mondays have got notably busier in recent weeks, so the Bedford services could become very overcrowded, especially given the reduced service the rest of the week

The issues seem to be worse on southern side of Thameslink. Ice is probably the number one enemy of trains running on 3rd rail, and its been below or around freezing most of the day, coupled with some snow flurrie. I imagine there were too many incidents for the response teams to deal with most of the day to keep trains progressively on the move.

SWR have had some similar localised issues, but mostly seemed fine by the evening. Southeastern still has major disruption due to snow, ice and associated signal faults.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The issues seem to be worse on southern side of Thameslink. Ice is probably the number one enemy of trains running on 3rd rail, and its been below or around freezing most of the day, coupled with some snow flurrie. I imagine there were too many incidents for the response teams to deal with most of the day to keep trains progressively on the move.

SWR have had some similar localised issues, but mostly seemed fine by the evening. Southeastern still has major disruption due to snow, ice and associated signal faults.

Significant snow in Gatwick area 5cm+ currently and with Redhill lines blocked all day going to be interesting first thing

 

[Sussex Ben]

The issues seem to be worse on southern side of Thameslink. Ice is probably the number one enemy of trains running on 3rd rail, and its been below or around freezing most of the day, coupled with some snow flurrie. I imagine there were too many incidents for the response teams to deal with most of the day to keep trains progressively on the move.

SWR have had some similar localised issues, but mostly seemed fine by the evening. Southeastern still has major disruption due to snow, ice and associated signal faults.

The BML doesn’t seem to have done too badly today, with only minor delays for the most part. No more snow forecast now though, and it’s already well below freezing here so hopefully the risk of 3rd rail related issues isn’t too great in the morning

 

[gm671]

So Cambridge to Brighton looks set to be pulled completely, even worse so does the Cambridge to King’s Cross stopping service, with Horsham to Peterborough making additional stops. Could they really not do any better than this?

Because of the location of the block, the only place to turn services back at Hitchin is behind the Ground Position Lights K228 or K234 on the down Royston. Accessing this requires crossing (and temporarily blocks) all lines of the East Coast Mainline at the flat junction (Cambridge Junction).

Whilst this has been possible today on an amended, reduced Sunday timetable, it’s just not viable in the morning weekday peak. With one train in, one out, it’s not a quick move and would end up with a backlog of trains queued on the down slow into Hitchin.

This means Hitchin and Stevenage are down to 2tph GTR, same at Hatfield and Potters Bar.

Welwyn - Sevenoaks service is planned to run also, but with the weather I can see this being curtailed in 3rd rail land.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The BML doesn’t seem to have done too badly today, with only minor delays for the most part. No more snow forecast now though, and it’s already well below freezing here so hopefully the risk of 3rd rail related issues isn’t too great in the morning

Best thing with third rail is to keep the trains moving so ice doesn't build up and to be fair GTR have largely done that.

 

[philjo]

It is currently snowing in North Herts which may have an impact on when the line can be reopened and also affect the Availability of any replacement buses tomorrow morning.

 

[Bikeman78]

Best thing with third rail is to keep the trains moving so ice doesn't build up and to be fair GTR have largely done that.

I recall having a long chat with a guard back in the 1990s. He was telling me that, during the previous winter, he had done some night shifts going up and down on a pair of EPBs to stop the snow building up on the third rail.

The biggest problem is rain after a cold spell, or rain followed immediately by a drop in temperature. The latter happened here last night. Ice on everything.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I recall having a long chat with a guard back in the 1990s. He was telling me that, during the previous winter, he had done some night shifts going up and down on a pair of EPBs to stop the snow building up on the third rail.

ghost train duties were good as long as you din't end up stranded

The biggest problem is rain after a cold spell, or rain followed immediately by a drop in temperature. The latter happened here last night. Ice on everything.

Indeed that is absolute worst case scenario and if the deicers (ice inhibitors really) haven't run its generally game over. Mind you i have to recollect a driver getting out the cab and using a paddle board to attempt to clear the surface of the conrail to get us moving again which was sucessfully. Wouldn't be allowed now.

 

[Magdalia]

In this bit of the Fens it has been freezing fog since just after dawn so we now have 10-20mm of snow on top of last night's frost, which did not thaw at all.

 

[bramling]

In this bit of the Fens it has been freezing fog since just after dawn so we now have 10-20mm of snow on top of last night's frost, which did not thaw at all.

I would imagine tomorrow will be a challenging day on those parts of the railway which use conductor rails.

 

[Peter Sarf]

In this bit of the Fens it has been freezing fog since just after dawn so we now have 10-20mm of snow on top of last night's frost, which did not thaw at all.

We have had a frost that has not thawed since Thursday and this is in Croydon which is generally warmer than outside London !. We have had about 2in / 50mm of snow this evening that laid straight away, probably because the ground is cold enough. The snow has just started again. I was out at about 16:00 as the fog was getting thicker and I could hear a mild crackling everywhere. I dont think I have ever, in my life, noticed that before - must be ice forming ?. I wont be expecting much to be running tomorrow in 3rd rail land and I don't think I will venture out even though I have just finished all my Christmas cards ready for what is left of the postal service.

 

[sot]

Rather aggressive arcing en route tonight running on third rail, never seen it as bad myself but from 25kv land... So...

 

[MikeWM]

In this bit of the Fens it has been freezing fog since just after dawn so we now have 10-20mm of snow on top of last night's frost, which did not thaw at all.

Same here - not got above freezing all day, after going down to about -5 last night. We've only got a dusting of snow so far, but seems only 10 miles or so south of here has got considerably more. I don't think the forecasting was predicting the snow - at least not anywhere near the amount that seems to have fallen across much of the south-east tonight - until it was almost on top of us. Given the forecast continuing the freezing conditions for some days yet, there doesn't seem like there is much opportunity for it to melt until well into the week, maybe not until next weekend, which is going to be a pain.

I was going to go into the office tomorrow, given that I'll be working from home most/all of the rest of the week anyway due to the strikes. But given the disruption due to the overrunning engineering works *and* the snow and ice, perhaps not. Ah, it is all going well.

Also, I note on the NR disruption page that GTR says

Please note, there will also be an overtime ban across the railway network from Sunday 18 December until Monday 2 January. Services may be extremely limited throughout this period.

'Extremely limited' doesn't sound good :-/

 

[bramling]

Same here - not got above freezing all day, after going down to about -5 last night. We've only got a dusting of snow so far, but seems only 10 miles or so south of here has got considerably more. I don't think the forecasting was predicting the snow - at least not anywhere near the amount that seems to have fallen across much of the south-east tonight - until it was almost on top of us.

Yes some of the weather forums are criticising the Met Office for seeming to under-predict this. Several inches of snow here in Hertfordshire, and temperatures not set to exceed freezing all morning. Allegedly some roads not treated at all.

Monday morning is going to need some serious common sense on the roads or it is going to be carnage.

For completeness, LU seems to have had a bad evening of it too. Derailment in Cockfosters Depot (no idea of details, but I’d imagine a likely cause is depot points not fully set due to being obstructed by snow), and loads of trains stuck on the Central, District and Piccadilly lines, some of which will be likely to remain in place overnight.

Been resting at home all weekend thanks to a sports injury, very glad not to have been caught up in all this.

 

[Bald Rick]

My train this morning turned up on time, not sure what the fuss is about

All TL services on the MML slow lines it seems though.

 

[jon0844]

Yes some of the weather forums are criticising the Met Office for seeming to under-predict this. Several inches of snow here in Hertfordshire, and temperatures not set to exceed freezing all morning. Allegedly some roads not treated at all.

Monday morning is going to need some serious common sense on the roads or it is going to be carnage.

For completeness, LU seems to have had a bad evening of it too. Derailment in Cockfosters Depot (no idea of details, but I’d imagine a likely cause is depot points not fully set due to being obstructed by snow), and loads of trains stuck on the Central, District and Piccadilly lines, some of which will be likely to remain in place overnight.

Been resting at home all weekend thanks to a sports injury, very glad not to have been caught up in all this.

I was caught out last night and 95% of motorists were driving slow and controlled in lane one of the ungritted A1(M) but obviously a few cars decided to drive as normal on lane two and three - if they could even tell where the lanes were. When I came off, there had already been a collision just after the on-ramp, and the police were also dealing with an incident on the roundabout.

Later, on a 50mph road near home, a cyclist overtook me and another car (doing around 15mph) and shortly after the second overtake he lost it, went flying and his bike bounced around before sliding to the kerb. Luckily the slow speed of the car in front meant the vehicle didn't skid into him and run him over. Amazingly, he carried on like nothing had happened!

I am staying indoors today and hope most people decided to work from home. I expect most if not all schools are closed also.

 

[Horizon22]

Also, I note on the NR disruption page that GTR says

Please note, there will also be an overtime ban across the railway network from Sunday 18 December until Monday 2 January. Services may be extremely limited throughout this period.

'Extremely limited' doesn't sound good :-/

People will get to see how much the railway really does run on overtime!

In other news, but very icy early in the morning with few route proofing trains out and about which seems to have been OK. The snow was certainly heavier and more sudden than predicted for the most part although a bit was forecast at around 1200.

 

[gm671]

People will get to see how much the railway really does run on overtime!

The statement on National Rail is misleading as the overtime ban is only RMT members… not ASLEF which represents more than 98% of Thameslink/Great Northern drivers.

 

[baz962]

My train this morning turned up on time, not sure what the fuss is about

All TL services on the MML slow lines it seems though.

That's because they know you are special

 

[al78]

Significant snow in Gatwick area 5cm+ currently and with Redhill lines blocked all day going to be interesting first thing

LMAO that sums up southern England perfectly.

For genuinely significant snow, try this:

 

[zwk500]

LMAO that sums up southern England perfectly.

For genuinely significant snow, try this:

It's significant in comparison to the local climate, and therefore more disruptive than other events where higher absolute values are lower relative to the base.

 

[ar10642]

LMAO that sums up southern England perfectly.

For genuinely significant snow, try this:

We don't get much snow down here and do not have the infrastructure for it. The last significant snowfall we had in the South East was 12 years ago.

 

[bramling]

LMAO that sums up southern England perfectly.

For genuinely significant snow, try this:

Southern England isn’t prepared for it, which isn’t anything to be too presumptuous about as given how rare snow is it wouldn’t be worth investing significantly sums for something which only happens very occasionally.

The issue we do have down here is that many motorists haven’t the first clue how to drive in such conditions. That’s more of a problem to be honest.

 

[43066]

LMAO that sums up southern England perfectly.

For genuinely significant snow, try this:

Not much point paying for the kit to tackle the kind of snow other parts of the world get on a regular basis, when we hardly get any, and disruption occurs every few years.

 

[Silver Cobra]

The ECML side of Thameslink hasn't faired too well this morning (on top of the overrunning works between Hitchin and Royston) with Arlesey station in particular being the biggest casualty. As a result of a broken down freight train between Biggleswade and Arlesey, no southbound services stopped at the station for over 5 hours (between 0540 and 1040) Northbound was also quite badly hit with no services calling for almost 3 hours (from 0605 to 0900), with a combination of the conditions south of London following the severe weather and a points failure while moving the broken down freight train being the cause, this in turn contributing to the lack of southbound service calls.

 

[miklcct]

I'm not impressed by Thameslink just putting a board saying no trains at my local station Cricklewood when Luton - Rainham trains are still running with the staff telling me nothing will stop here and telling me to take a bus.

Using a bus to transfer to a train costs me much more than using the trains alone on Oyster.