Bike and luggage storage

[northeastspott]

Hello, i was just wondering if it would be acceptable to use my carriage "T" key to access bike and luggage compartments on LNER and Trans-Pennine Express services? I am sick of staff locking cupboards that need to be open and i can't always use this space for storage.

 

[m0ffy]

I would suggest not.

 

[L401CJF]

Definitely not! If I caught somebody using a T Key on my train to open cupboards I'd have them removed and reported. How do I know they're not going to go around letting themselves into cabs etc?

If you need access to bike storage, speak to the guard/TM.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Hello, i was just wondering if it would be acceptable to use my carriage "T" key to access bike and luggage compartments on LNER and Trans-Pennine Express services?

I think you now have your answer in posts #2 and #3.

And, by the way, welcome to the forum. Great first post!

 

[michael74]

Why do have a T key on you, and yes you would be off my train and a security intelligence report would be submitted.

 

[northeastspott]

Why do have a T key on you, and yes you would be off my train and a security intelligence report would be submitted.

Why not? Back In the days, you could buy your own carriage key for a compartment and That key could open every everything eles. What's the difference???

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2022 ==

Definitely not! If I caught somebody using a T Key on my train to open cupboards I'd have them removed and reported. How do I know they're not going to go around letting themselves into cabs etc?

If you need access to bike storage, speak to the guard/TM.

Why not? Back In the days, you could buy your own carriage key for a compartment and That key could open every everything eles. What's the difference???

 

[Fokx]

Why not? Back In the days, you could buy your own carriage key for a compartment and That key could open every everything eles. What's the difference???

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2022 ==


Why not? Back In the days, you could buy your own carriage key for a compartment and That key could open every everything eles. What's the difference???

Back in the day you could take liquids through security at Airports, go to a concert without having to be searched.

Times have changed, it’s for security purposes.

 

[LCC106]

In the world we live in it could pose a big security risk! In answer to the OP, always speak to the guard or TM. Cupboards may be closed for a reason and it’s not wise to use a T-key when not on official railway business. Not worth risking your job. No such thing as a daft question though.

 

[L401CJF]

Why not? Back In the days, you could buy your own carriage key for a compartment and That key could open every everything eles. What's the difference???

Generally if something is locked, it's locked for a reason. You cant go round just unlocking things yourself!

Just as i said earlier, if I saw somebody opening locks on my train with a T Key theyd be removed and reported - because how do I know they're not going to start letting themselves into cabs or unlocking door panels etc.

If you genuinely need access to somewhere eg bike storage, speak to staff for assistance.

 

[Ediswan]

Times have changed, it’s for security purposes.

Have they. Has it not always been to prevent passengers from accessing areas the railway don't want them to. (Even though it was likely that a competent blacksmith could have knocked one out in a few minutes.)

 

[43066]

Hello, i was just wondering if it would be acceptable to use my carriage "T" key to access bike and luggage compartments on LNER and Trans-Pennine Express services? I am sick of staff locking cupboards that need to be open and i can't always use this space for storage.

Of course it’s not acceptable and I’m surprised you would need to ask the question. I agree with the comments above, if I saw someone doing this they wouldn’t be travelling on a train I was working. This kind of behaviour is why a small minority of enthusiasts give the rest a bad name.

 

[DelW]

Of course it’s not acceptable and I’m surprised you would need to ask the question. I agree with the comments above, if I saw someone doing this they wouldn’t be travelling on a train I was working. This kind of behaviour is why a small minority of enthusiasts give the rest a bad name.

There's no indication within this thread that anyone has behaved in any such way. The OP asked a question and has been given a firm answer. We should surely assume that they will respect that answer, otherwise why would they have asked?

 

[TreacleMiller]

BTP arrested someone quite recently for doing exactly that - Cant think of the TOC.

 

[6Gman]

Why not? Back In the days, you could buy your own carriage key for a compartment and That key could open every everything eles. What's the difference???

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2022 ==


Why not? Back In the days, you could buy your own carriage key for a compartment and That key could open every everything eles. What's the difference???

When was this?

 

[43066]

There's no indication within this thread that anyone has behaved in any such way. The OP asked a question and has been given a firm answer. We should surely assume that they will respect that answer, otherwise why would they have asked?

Let’s hope not. It’s somewhat concerning that he has a T key, and has clearly at least contemplated doing this. It’s just worth making the point that doing this really is not on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Let’s hope not. It’s somewhat concerning that he has a T key, and has clearly at least contemplated doing this. It’s just worth making the point that doing this really is not on.

Is it possible he's a volunteer on a preserved railway and has one legitimately as such?

On the other hand a T key is just a square chunk of metal, sometimes with a hole in it. The railway really should be much more sophisticated than that these days, it's not as if it's hard to render them all pretty much useless by using actually secure methods of access, e.g. proximity cards on electronic locks or even normal house or car type keys! It's not hard, and such locks work for ages on batteries, as per pretty much every hotel door in the world these days!

(There are also some house keys that will open non-pin-fitted T-key locks. I "might" have used mine to open windows on a Class 166 when the temperature inside got well over 35 degrees due to the "aircon" not working, and I would happily stand up in Court to defend having done that had any member of staff got shirty rather than apologetic about the situation).

 

[michael74]

Is it possible he's a volunteer on a preserved railway and has one legitimately as such?

On the other hand a T key is just a square chunk of metal, sometimes with a hole in it. The railway really should be much more sophisticated than that these days, it's not as if it's hard to render them all pretty much useless by using actually secure methods of access, e.g. proximity cards on electronic locks or even normal house or car type keys! It's not hard, and such locks work for ages on batteries, as per pretty much every hotel door in the world these days!

(There are also some house keys that will open non-pin-fitted T-key locks. I "might" have used mine to open windows on a Class 166 when the temperature inside got well over 35 degrees due to the "aircon" not working, and I would happily stand up in Court to defend having done that had any member of staff got shirty rather than apologetic about the situation).

Got no issues with Heritage staff having one, but I am sure same Heritage staff would not be impressed if I started cutting about thier trians opening stuff.

 

[43066]

Got no issues with Heritage staff having one, but I am sure same Heritage staff would not be impressed if I started cutting about thier trians opening stuff.

Absolutely.

I "might" have used mine to open windows on a Class 166 when the temperature inside got well over 35 degrees due to the "aircon" not working,

If it was sweltering and there were no staff then I don’t suppose anyone could really blame you for doing that. However, in most situations, the best thing to do will almost always be to either move or ask staff.

Using a key to enter a locked area is a complete no no (and quite likely to be railway trespass). It’s just really important to make that clear because there is a tendency for certain members to take things very literally.

 

[30907]

I must confess to being concerned when an off-duty fellow volunteer took it upon himself to use a T-key (which on my line is part of a guard's kit) with awkward consequences - not unsafe, I should add, but poor customer relations.

 

[hkstudent]

As slightly off topic, many times when a Avanti train pulled in at Euston at evening time with no turnaround service after, many times, one of the bike passenger will use T key open the door as knowing no platform staff will open the door for them.

 

[TheAlbanach_]

The railway really does need to get rid of tkeys asap. Only people who would be able to unlock and have access to non public areas of trains are rail staff.

 

[LCC106]

Hello again OP. May I ask, are you a member of paid rail staff working for a Train or Freight Operating Company? Are you a volunteer on a heritage railway ? Or a rail enthusiast? There have been a couple of assumptions made, which is why I ask.

 

[michael74]

The railway really does need to get rid of tkeys asap. Only people who would be able to unlock and have access to non public areas of trains are rail staff.

That means retrofitting something in the reagion of hundreds of thousands of locks on thousands of trains, the majority of which are decades old.... I'm not a betting man but I take better odds on the Euromillions

 

[dk1]

The railway really does need to get rid of tkeys asap. Only people who would be able to unlock and have access to non public areas of trains are rail staff.

No chance.

 

[northeastspott]

Hello again OP. May I ask, are you a member of paid rail staff working for a Train or Freight Operating Company? Are you a volunteer on a heritage railway ? Or a rail enthusiast? There have been a couple of assumptions made, which is why I ask.

I'm a rail enthusiast and volunteer. That does NOT mean I go around using my T key for everything!

 

[Bletchleyite]

As slightly off topic, many times when a Avanti train pulled in at Euston at evening time with no turnaround service after, many times, one of the bike passenger will use T key open the door as knowing no platform staff will open the door for them.

This setup is a massive issue. That door really needs passenger controls adding to it, or the cycle storage to be moved elsewhere.

Doesn't surprise me that some cyclists have got their own (much as it wouldn't be legal, letting yourself into non-passenger areas is I believe a Byelaw breach), but mostly it's a cleaner that ends up doing it.

At minimum it needs a passcom in there inside and out and I recall there isn't one.

 

[hkstudent]

This setup is a massive issue. That door really needs passenger controls adding to it, or the cycle storage to be moved elsewhere.

Doesn't surprise me that some cyclists have got their own (much as it wouldn't be legal, letting yourself into non-passenger areas is I believe a Byelaw breach), but mostly it's a cleaner that ends up doing it.

At minimum it needs a passcom in there inside and out and I recall there isn't one.

Most issue is, technically you need to be directed by staff to the bike area but the staff are just not bothered and asked the public to access their directly

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most issue is, technically you need to be directed by staff to the bike area but the staff are just not bothered and asked the public to access their directly

It's supposed to require a key to get in there from the saloon but it doesn't, the door can just be pushed open, and indeed still falls open on curves at times.

The system really doesn't work at all. I'm surprised they didn't change it (e.g. by adding say 4 or 6 bikes' worth of vertical-hanging "cupboards" elsewhere) at the refurb.

 

[43066]

The system really doesn't work at all. I'm surprised they didn't change it (e.g. by adding say 4 or 6 bikes' worth of vertical-hanging "cupboards" elsewhere) at the refurb.

I get the impression that current train designs can’t cope with the massive increase in cycling we’ve seen over the last few years, which seemed to be accelerated by Covid (presumably because people had little else to do with so much being closed!).

 

[hkstudent]

I get the impression that current train designs can’t cope with the massive increase in cycling we’ve seen over the last few years, which seemed to be accelerated by Covid (presumably because people had little else to do with so much being closed!).

and DfT not bothered to add any, as they need to squeeze more people on intercity service with fewer trains.