Why are there H&C trains at Upminster?

[Basil Jet]

Looking at the District line WTT, I noticed in the depot workings section at the front that there are H&C trains starting and finishing at Upminster, and running in service to and from Upminster. Some of these are marked as Runs As Required, but some are full-time. I don't know why either of these are there. How long have these run? I have never heard anyone mention them along with other rare tube services. It can't be because of lack of space at Barking, because there are a few District trains stable at Barking as well.

 

[Mojo]

Barking is not a depot, it is only a sidings. Since Hammersmith stopped being a depot and became a sidings there are no longer any depots on the Circle & Hammersmith line therefore some trains to / from this line will eventually have to be worked to / from Ealing Common or Upminster depots.

 

[NSE]

There’s always been a few sub surface unique workings at the extremes of the day. I think a few Circle lines used to go to Aldgate East to reverse to even out the wheel wear for example. Essentially all the stock movement purposes. Now they’re all the same stock and used interchangeably (barring the S8 of course) you’ll find a few of these positioning moves.

 

[100andthirty]

Unlike the pre S stock days the 7-car S stock trains are interchangeable between the District and H&C. Hammersmith was a difficult depot to operate and quite unsuitable for maintaining trains not able to be easily split into units or cars. Hence concentrating maintenance at Neasden, Ealing Common and Upminster.

 

[MCR247]

If you’re ever at Upminster in the early morning you’ll see a few S7s come out of the depot with Hammersmith - District line on them. I assume at Barking the displays change

 

[AlbertBeale]

If you’re ever at Upminster in the early morning you’ll see a few S7s come out of the depot with Hammersmith - District line on them. I assume at Barking the displays change

Given the District does go to Hammersmith (albeit not the one presumably referred to here), that's rather confusing. Can an H&C train that does the extra leg between Barking and Upminster not still be shown on displays as an H&C (at least when heading westbound)? Or is that not technically possible? Or would that be even more confusing?

 

[Dstock7080]

Given the District does go to Hammersmith (albeit not the one presumably referred to here), that's rather confusing. Can an H&C train that does the extra leg between Barking and Upminster not still be shown on displays as an H&C (at least when heading westbound)? Or is that not technically possible?

Unfortunately not, as it is a District Line train with a District driver until Barking, who will then alter the train to Hammersmith & City.
While operating from Upminster as a District Line to Hammersmith, the announcements would only give the route via Aldgate East, not confusingly giving Tower Hill, Embankment etc.
Similarly, there are Circle Line trains from Upminster and Hammersmith & City and Circle Line trains from Ealing Common depot.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

To avoid confusion I'd probably set it as a District Line train to Aldgate East until arrival at Barking, play Sarah Parnell's "the destination of this train has now changed, this is now a Hammersmith & City Line train to Hammersmith" and then leave it from there. Anyone that boarded prior to Barking will still be able to remain on the train it was advertised as while a District Line service as the H&C calls at the same stations up to Aldgate East.

Or, why not just add a limited service dotted salmon-pink line between Barking and Upminster to denote limited H&C services on that route. Even if you use District drivers there's no reason why it can't be advertised as a H&C service.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I can understand a District driver not signing the route via Liverpool Street, but surely they can tell the computer the train's going that way?

 

[Dstock7080]

I can understand a District driver not signing the route via Liverpool Street, but surely they can tell the computer the train's going that way?

Even if you use District drivers there's no reason why it can't be advertised as a H&C service.

Inter-Line running has not been agreed, so District trains must be described as such.
The on-train computer/CIS would not give any verbal or visual information if set as a Hammersmith & City train from Upminster, until Barking westbound.
Perhaps with the commissioning of CBTC SMA6 on 15 January the platform information Becontree-Stepney will be more accurate and show something different.

 

[Surreytraveller]

What a load of nonsense! Same train, same track, I cannot understand how it affects the driver when the CIS is telling the passengers where the train is going

 

[yorkie]

What a load of nonsense! Same train, same track, I cannot understand how it affects the driver when the CIS is telling the passengers where the train is going

The Unions have a lot of power in the rail industry so they can stipulate that if something isn't agreed, it can't happen.

It's a very different culture than that which most people work in, but let's not debate the rights and wrongs of that here!

 

[Mawkie]

Inter-Line running has not been agreed,

Yet.