Connectivity along the South Coast - is a new Express service needed?

[Schweir]

Services along the South coast since the start of the pandemic have got progressively worse, is it time a new express service was introduced with some of the freed paths (e.g XC reduced service to Bournemouth, culling of the Worthing shuttles etc...)?

One idea might be from Poole to Brighton calling at: Poole, Parkstone (?), Branksome (?), Bournemouth, Christchurch, New Milton, Brockenhurst, Totton (?), Southampton C, Swanwick, Fareham, Portchester (?), Cosham, Havant, Chichester, Barnham, Worthing, Shoreham-by-Sea, Hove & Brighton

Where ? indicates potential stops. Potential stops are weighted towards stations with lower populations west of Southampton due to there being fewer large population centres in this direction.

Will be heavily flawed I'm sure as I have not looked into the potential pathings but hopefully someone higher up might see the issue... Please post any other feasible routes too!

 

[nlogax]

Services along the South coast since the start of the pandemic have got progressively worse, is it time a new express service was introduced with some of the freed paths (e.g XC reduced service to Bournemouth, culling of the Worthing shuttles etc...)?

Not sure if there's the wider demand for it? The Bournemouth - Brighton (or was it Bournemouth - Victoria?) service didn't survive beyond Connex South Central. Whenever I saw those services departing the Bournemouth bay platform they were usually very lightly loaded.

 

[JonathanH]

Services along the South coast since the start of the pandemic have got progressively worse

Have they?

is it time a new express service was introduced with some of the freed paths (e.g XC reduced service to Bournemouth, culling of the Worthing shuttles etc...)?

Even with cuts to services running a service that is designed to be an express would be difficult to path given it is essentially two track railway all the way from Poole to Brighton with no ideal overtaking opportunities.

 

[NSE]

A nice idea, but I think people just want consistent services serving them regularly. Bring back the West Worthing shuttles, speed up the longer ones and just keep it moving.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Services along the South coast since the start of the pandemic have got progressively worse, is it time a new express service was introduced with some of the freed paths (e.g XC reduced service to Bournemouth, culling of the Worthing shuttles etc...)?

One idea might be from Poole to Brighton calling at: Poole, Parkstone (?), Branksome (?), Bournemouth, Christchurch, New Milton, Brockenhurst, Totton (?), Southampton C, Swanwick, Fareham, Portchester (?), Cosham, Havant, Chichester, Barnham, Worthing, Shoreham-by-Sea, Hove & Brighton

Where ? indicates potential stops. Potential stops are weighted towards stations with lower populations west of Southampton due to there being fewer large population centres in this direction.

Will be heavily flawed I'm sure as I have not looked into the potential pathings but hopefully someone higher up might see the issue... Please post any other feasible routes too!

Who would you envisage using this, and what - other than sitting on the same train without needing to change - would be the major benefit and thus factor that makes stretching the already extremely tight Southern fleet even further? (Or do you plan to use up 450s that may be freed by 701 introduction and 458 cascade, therefore returning Havant - Brighton to the SWR network?)

 

[cle]

I don't know that the whole coastway needs linking. There are natural breaks at Southampton, Portsmouth and Brighton of course. For example, I don't think much has to run from east of Portsmouth to west of Southampton - now that the Brighton/Cardiffs are gone.

But Brighton - Portsmouth (and the smaller termini) should all have hourly services. And 1tph Southampton ideally which is the tricky piece. Plus Portsmouth should have at least 2tph to Southampton. I think a reality is that west of Southampton has to be carried by SWT London services and XC.

Yes they might be used (e.g. my nephew in Hove goes to Bournemouth Uni) - but that's a change. These are used for local commuting, and feeding into faster London services (and some regional ones). I'd rather West Worthing came back and Brighton had a metro again - same for the other way via Falmer. Even though a Cardiff service is pretty cool, it's an edge case.

 

[WizCastro197]

Not sure if there's the wider demand for it? The Bournemouth - Brighton (or was it Bournemouth - Victoria?) service didn't survive beyond Connex South Central. Whenever I saw those services departing the Bournemouth bay platform they were usually very lightly loaded.

Yes, Victoria.

No point getting on a service that will take even longer and also go via Southampton. Probably where most passengers disembarked anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2022 ==

Services along the South coast since the start of the pandemic have got progressively worse, is it time a new express service was introduced with some of the freed paths (e.g XC reduced service to Bournemouth, culling of the Worthing shuttles etc...)?

One idea might be from Poole to Brighton calling at: Poole, Parkstone (?), Branksome (?), Bournemouth, Christchurch, New Milton, Brockenhurst, Totton (?), Southampton C, Swanwick, Fareham, Portchester (?), Cosham, Havant, Chichester, Barnham, Worthing, Shoreham-by-Sea, Hove & Brighton

Where ? indicates potential stops. Potential stops are weighted towards stations with lower populations west of Southampton due to there being fewer large population centres in this direction.

Will be heavily flawed I'm sure as I have not looked into the potential pathings but hopefully someone higher up might see the issue... Please post any other feasible routes too!

South coast is a very large area. Whereabouts has the service gotten 'progressively worse'

Not really an express either if it is stopping at that many stations.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2022 ==

Who would you envisage using this, and what - other than sitting on the same train without needing to change - would be the major benefit and thus factor that makes stretching the already extremely tight Southern fleet even further? (Or do you plan to use up 450s that may be freed by 701 introduction and 458 cascade, therefore returning Havant - Brighton to the SWR network?)

In addition, a change at Southampton (from Bournemouth to say Brighton) isn't even too bad as the XC to Manchester gets in 15 minutes before and the train to Waterloo arrives 28 minutes before, which is slightly longer than wanted.

South Western says the journey will take 2h30 but the cheapest option is travelling on XC to Southampton

The 11:45 Option for those looking.

Buy Cheap Train Tickets | South Western Railway | The New Name For South West Trains

www.southwesternrailway.com

 

[miklcct]

I don't see a major problem in the service provision.

The improvements I can see include XC returning to hourly (giving 4 tph between Bournemouth and Southampton, and 4 tph between Havant and Brighton calling at all stops (2 from Southampton and 2 from Portsmouth, with the 2 Portsmouth train having connections at Havant for other Southampton trains) making a West Sussex metro service.

 

[swt_passenger]

Not sure if there's the wider demand for it? The Bournemouth - Brighton (or was it Bournemouth - Victoria?) service didn't survive beyond Connex South Central. Whenever I saw those services departing the Bournemouth bay platform they were usually very lightly loaded.

IIRC the “Southern” predecessor services to Bournemouth, (to/from Victoria as mentioned), were removed because in one direction they ran only slightly ahead of XC and were running nearly empty. It was explained in some sort of route strategy document at the time it was withdrawn, but I doubt I could find it now…

 

[nw1]

The problem is more the slowness of the journey to Brighton from Southampton/Portsmouth. I don't think there's a need for an extension to/from Bournemouth as they still have two fast-ish trains per hour from Southampton to Bournemouth.

Restore the separate Brighton-West Worthing stopper, remove stops from the east end of the Brighton-Southampton/Portsmouth (e.g Hove, Portslade, Shoreham and Worthing only), and the problem will mostly go away.

 

[WizCastro197]

The problem is more the slowness of the journey to Brighton from Southampton/Portsmouth. I don't think there's a need for an extension to/from Bournemouth as they still have two fast-ish trains per hour from Southampton to Bournemouth.

Restore the separate Brighton-West Worthing stopper and the problem will mostly go away.

Yes and 3 every other hour which is sufficient. There doesn’t need to be another lightly loaded service that takes up paths as you’ve suggested.

Yes Brighton-West Worthing would help as from what I went on 4 years ago was a Brighton-Southampton stopper and most traffic disembarked at Worthing although things may well have changed.

 

[34006]

I remember in the early 1960's Brighton had 4 long distance trains, Manchester, Plymouth, Cardiff and Bournemouth. All had a stream engine on them which is why I remember. There was one train a day to Bournemouth, setting off mid morning, and coming back mid afternoon. It was withdrawn when Bournemouth was electrified.

 

[RobShipway]

Services along the South coast since the start of the pandemic have got progressively worse, is it time a new express service was introduced with some of the freed paths (e.g XC reduced service to Bournemouth, culling of the Worthing shuttles etc...)?

One idea might be from Poole to Brighton calling at: Poole, Parkstone (?), Branksome (?), Bournemouth, Christchurch, New Milton, Brockenhurst, Totton (?), Southampton C, Swanwick, Fareham, Portchester (?), Cosham, Havant, Chichester, Barnham, Worthing, Shoreham-by-Sea, Hove & Brighton

Where ? indicates potential stops. Potential stops are weighted towards stations with lower populations west of Southampton due to there being fewer large population centres in this direction.

Will be heavily flawed I'm sure as I have not looked into the potential pathings but hopefully someone higher up might see the issue... Please post any other feasible routes too!

Have they?


Even with cuts to services running a service that is designed to be an express would be difficult to path given it is essentially two track railway all the way from Poole to Brighton with no ideal overtaking opportunities.

Back in the early 1990's I lived in Bournemouth and would travel back to Brighton every other weekend to see my parents. In those days the four carriages that left Bournemouth bay platforms where pretty much empty until Southampton. maybe, some passengers getting on at Brockenhurst. if the service you suggest was able to be implemented, then I suspect it would go Poole - Bournemouth - Brockenhurst - Southampton - Fareham - Havant - Chichester - Brighton if it was to be an express train.

However, all I think that you need is a Southampton - Brighton service as is run currently. Maybe, not stop at Swanwick, Cosham, Barnham, Ford, Angmering, Goring-by-Sea, Durrington, West Worthing, East Worthing, Lancing, Shoreham-by-Sea, Fishersgate, Portslade and Hove. Possibly have 1 train every two hours as an express service if the paths are available, with the train in between stopping. Although, I doubt that the paths are available for any of the services to run without stopping at the stations that the current service stops at currently, due to trains from Portsmouth and Littlehampton travelling on the West Coastway route.

 

[nw1]

I don't see a major problem in the service provision.

The improvements I can see include XC returning to hourly (giving 4 tph between Bournemouth and Southampton, and 4 tph between Havant and Brighton calling at all stops (2 from Southampton and 2 from Portsmouth, with the 2 Portsmouth train having connections at Havant for other Southampton trains) making a West Sussex metro service.

The "calling at all stops" is the crux of the problem I think. A regional semi-fast service (which is what these should be, as Southampton, Portsmouth and Brighton are large centres) should not be doing this. And you don't really need 4tph between Havant and Brighton, just two fast-ish ones, with the other two originating closer to Brighton.

Run the Portsmouth and Southampton to Brighton semi-fast (e.g. Havant, Emsworth (1tph), Southbourne (1tph), Chichester, Barnham, West Worthing, Worthing, Shoreham, Portslade, Hove, and Brighton), keep the Littlehampton-Portsmouth stopper for the local stations at the west end, and bring back the two all-stations stoppers over the eastern section (perhaps originating at Littlehampton) then you end up with a better fast Coastway service. No need to extend to and from Bournemouth, though, as you say.

 

[SussexSeagull]

Have travelled from Durrington to Bournemouth for work or leisure and generally I find changing at Southampton is quite straightforward so long as the trains times married up. I seem to recall the changeover becoming tight if the service into Southampton was delayed but I haven't done it for a while.

 

[30907]

The "calling at all stops" is the crux of the problem I think. A regional semi-fast service (which is what these should be, as Southampton, Portsmouth and Brighton are large centres) should not be doing this.

I basically agree.

Have travelled from Durrington to Bournemouth for work or leisure...

I suspect the market Goring/Angmering/Durrington to Chichester and beyond needs serving, which nw1's scheme doesn't cover. Perhaps one of the Littlehampton stoppers should go to Bognor instead for a connection?