Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[WarrenTManager]

Not 100% sure to be honest, don't know whether it failed at Shepperton last week or not. However, it is isolated but this isn't an uncommon sight for these units. Has caused some berthing issues at Staines though with 4 road having it's conductor rail removed just 2 weeks ago. Foresight and all that....

It didn’t fail, it was being outberthed and had to be moved because of engineering works apparently

 

[Goldfish62]

It didn’t fail, it was being outberthed and had to be moved because of engineering works apparently

It's still there.

 

[VWRO2]

701038 should be leaving Staines tomorrow (01/12).
Software updates are now complete for the current 701 fleet and (touch wood) issues have been sorted. Now awaiting driver training, so hopefully not too long to go now before they're introduced into service.

 

[MDB1images]

Rock Rail South Western have added 031 and 048 to the "charged" register implying they've accepted them even if SWR aren't happy.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10754652/filing-history

Never seen these documents before, do you have links to any of the names used by other TOCS that are accepting new stock?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Never seen these documents before, do you have links to any of the names used by other TOCS that are accepting new stock?

Rock Rail are more transparent than others as they have separate subsidiaries listed in UK for each stock order. Eversholt/Porterbrook hide operating subsidiaries in Channel Islands who don't have same disclosure rules. Also depends on how they got money to buy the stock. Some have in house funds so don't need to raise charges but Rock Rail have borrowed from groups of lenders who charge the asset like the deeds on your house are kept by mortgage company till you've paid it off as collateral.

 

[MDB1images]

Rock Rail are more transparent than others as they have separate subsidiaries listed in UK for each stock order. Eversholt/Porterbrook hide operating subsidiaries in Channel Islands who don't have same disclosure rules. Also depends on how they got money to buy the stock. Some have in house funds so don't need to raise charges but Rock Rail have borrowed from groups of lenders who charge the asset like the deeds on your house are kept by mortgage company till you've paid it off as collateral.

Handy bit of info, Thanks.

 

[Roger B]

Rock Rail South Western have added 031 and 048 to the "charged" register implying they've accepted them even if SWR aren't happy.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10754652/filing-history

Many thanks Nicholas.

Interesting to note that the PDFs (eg for 701031) state the manufacturer to be Bombardier Transportation UK Ltd, rather than Alstom. Then again, perhaps Alstom's takeover of Bombardier UK Ltd is a change of ownership of the company, and Alstom hasn't changed the company's name (yet)?

 

[43102EMR]

Many thanks Nicholas.

Interesting to note that the PDFs (eg for 701031) state the manufacturer to be Bombardier Transportation UK Ltd, rather than Alstom. Then again, perhaps Alstom's takeover of Bombardier UK Ltd is a change of ownership of the company, and Alstom hasn't changed the company's name (yet)?

Following takeovers/mergers, things such as rebrands can take a while although there are some cases where it’s a fairly simple job.

Either that or 031 was one of the units to have been built under Bombardier?

 

[Invincible]

701038 should be leaving Staines tomorrow (01/12).
Software updates are now complete for the current 701 fleet and (touch wood) issues have been sorted. Now awaiting driver training, so hopefully not too long to go now before they're introduced into service.

So the Windsor line might be the first to take passengers sometime early 2023?.

 

[AlexNL]

Companies House also still gives lots of 'currently active' results when searching for Bombardier based out of Derby. It's very likely that the legal name hasn't been changed, but solely the 'doing business as' name.

It's not uncommon for this to happen, Dovetail Games (who make Train Simulator and Train Sim World, among others) are still legally named 'RailSimulator.com Ltd' for example.

 

[Goldfish62]

Companies House also still gives lots of 'currently active' results when searching for Bombardier based out of Derby. It's very likely that the legal name hasn't been changed, but solely the 'doing business as' name.

It's not uncommon for this to happen, Dovetail Games (who make Train Simulator and Train Sim World, among others) are still legally named 'RailSimulator.com Ltd' for example.

Plenty of examples in the transport world. For example, the legal name of Stagecoach Midlands is Midland Red South Ltd.

 

[43096]

Plenty of examples in the transport world. For example, the legal name of Stagecoach Midlands is Midland Red South Ltd.

On the railway, GWR is legally First Greater Western Ltd.

 

[XAM2175]

Interesting to note that the PDFs (eg for 701031) state the manufacturer to be Bombardier Transportation UK Ltd, rather than Alstom. Then again, perhaps Alstom's takeover of Bombardier UK Ltd is a change of ownership of the company, and Alstom hasn't changed the company's name (yet)?

Either that or 031 was one of the units to have been built under Bombardier?

Companies House also still gives lots of 'currently active' results when searching for Bombardier based out of Derby. It's very likely that the legal name hasn't been changed, but solely the 'doing business as' name.

They're still Bombardier Transportation UK Ltd, just trading as Alstom.

 

[swr444]

So the Windsor line might be the first to take passengers sometime early 2023?.

I doubt it, they need to train enough drivers, guards and station staff on them first. Not to mention the complete change in dispatch procedures etc

 

[Snow1964]

I doubt it, they need to train enough drivers, guards and station staff on them first. Not to mention the complete change in dispatch procedures etc

The stations from Waterloo to Windsor see a mix of class 450, 455, 458, 707 units (and until recently 456 too)

If the station staff and guards can deal with lot, training will probably not be adding that much that is completely new.
Simulators for drivers have been available for ages, so there has been time for partial training there too.

So although training is required, not really starting from scratch, more like conversion courses which are obviously much quicker.

 

[LUYMun]

701s are 2.78m wide.

707s are 2.80m wide.

This is a difference of only 2cm externally - I suspect the internal measurement will be equal given the door differences mentioned above meaning no pockets.

That would be 20cm actually!

 

[Trainbike46]

That would be 20cm actually!

280 cm (707) and 278 cm (701) really are only 2 cm different...

 

[TEW]

The stations from Waterloo to Windsor see a mix of class 450, 455, 458, 707 units (and until recently 456 too)

If the station staff and guards can deal with lot, training will probably not be adding that much that is completely new.
Simulators for drivers have been available for ages, so there has been time for partial training there too.

So although training is required, not really starting from scratch, more like conversion courses which are obviously much quicker.

701s will be the first trains where drivers have control of the doors though, so it is a pretty big change.

 

[Mainsideman]

The stations from Waterloo to Windsor see a mix of class 450, 455, 458, 707 units (and until recently 456 too)

If the station staff and guards can deal with lot, training will probably not be adding that much that is completely new.
Simulators for drivers have been available for ages, so there has been time for partial training there too.

So although training is required, not really starting from scratch, more like conversion courses which are obviously much quicker.

Its the change in dispatch procedure all them stock have the same procedure. 701s will be completely different, with the changeover to driver dispatch

 

[Peter Sarf]

That would be 20cm actually!

Ah, 20mm actually, that is 2cm which is 0.02m. So not 8 inches !. There are 100 centimetres in a metre. There are 1000 millimetres in a metre.

 

[swr444]

Its the change in dispatch procedure all them stock have the same procedure. 701s will be completely different, with the changeover to driver dispatch

exactly this.

 

[VWRO2]

As far as I am aware, station staff won't be involved with dispatching 701s. They will still be present at busy stations and busy times at quieter stations but the dispatch bat's days are numbered now.

 

[Goldfish62]

As far as I am aware, station staff won't be involved with dispatching 701s. They will still be present at busy stations and busy times at quieter stations but the dispatch bat's days are numbered now.

I'd be surprised if station staff didn't despatch via RA/CD indicators at busy stations such as Waterloo and Clapham Junction.

 

[Wokingham]

Untrue they will be dispatched and platform staff will monitor the platform see Reading etc

 

[swr444]

As far as I am aware, station staff won't be involved with dispatching 701s. They will still be present at busy stations and busy times at quieter stations but the dispatch bat's days are numbered now.

Where did you hear this?

 

[VWRO2]

I'm prepared to stand corrected but I was made aware that the current dispatch arrangement (this was a couple of years ago now, btw) will come to an end, although staff will keep competency for 450/458/444.
Of course ROs will still monitor the safe dispatch.
CD/RA would of course be of an advantage but I haven't seen this added anywhere with the signalling and station upgrades.
(I'm not talking about major stations such as Clapham and the like with the end of the current RO/guard dispatch)

 

[Mainsideman]

As far as I am aware, station staff won't be involved with dispatching 701s. They will still be present at busy stations and busy times at quieter stations but the dispatch bat's days are numbered now.

This is the case for everywhere expect Waterloo and Reading which for obvious reasons will be CD/RA dispatch. All other stations will have a role in dispatch during degraded working, so the dispatch bats arent going anywhere anytime soon. This is per the agreement between SWR and The RMT regarding the introduction of the 701s which RO2s voted in favour for.

 

[SeaKing]

As anyone a list of what 701 are parked at Eastleigh, Yesterday managed to read 013,024,015,050 and 018 (Half set) there were a couple more units that couldn't be read from Campbell Road.

 

[Deepgreen]

Ah, 20mm actually, that is 2cm which is 0.02m. So not 8 inches !. There are 100 centimetres in a metre. There are 1000 millimetres in a metre.

It's a good job the builders have a better grasp of measurements than some...!

 

[Idiotic]

It will be CD/RA at Waterloo and Reading only. RO2s will only dispatch during degraded working. They will still be at platforms using PA and ensuring the safety of the platform / PTI. But it is correct they won’t be part of the dispatch of 701s