Fine Help

[peterpauls]

Good afternoon

Last week I was travelling from Tottenham Hale to Harlow Town. I am a Network Rail discount holder but I did not have my card on me. I was told I had to pay a £30 fine, on top of the ticket I had already purchased & I could appeal the £30 fine, not having my Network Rail Card meant my ticket was invalid.

I gave my address and I was told that I had to pay the fine on the spot as somebody with the same name had already sent a fine to that address under my name & greater anglia said the fine got sent back saying nobody lives there under that name - I know nothing about this.

So I paid the fine & now I'm scared to appeal it. My Network Rail Discount Card is valid until August 2023 so I should win the appeal as I simply didn't have my card on me, I even logged in to Network Rail which confirmed my Name, Card Number & expiry date but still was issued a fine.

I'm worried now that a fine under my name was sent to my address & then sent back to Greater Anglia saying nobody under that name lives there. I'm not even sure when that happened.

I've paid the fine from recently, which I'm aware of but I'm now worried what will happen from this previous fine that was sent to me without me knowing & if I appeal the one I do know about that I'll have a huge fine or court problems.

I must note that I live in a property protection scheme, its an empty care home, 22 people live in there but Greater Anglia said only 4 people live there & I don't. I paid the fine but will I now be chased & liable for this fine from ages ago that was sent to my address?

I'm not sure what I should do?

Also, I'm moving out on December 2nd in a few days to another property protection, an empty police station in Greenwich.

Really not sure what I should do? I'm thinking if I appeal the fine it will bring up this previous fine that is in my name & the empty care home address that I know nothing about.

I've paid the £30 & considering not appealing as I'm so worried about this mystery fine sent in my name, my address & for the same thing!

I'm confident I have nothing to worry about in terms of cctv & I also do have a valid Network rail card.

All advice is most welcome, I'm annoyed about the £30 find but its nothing compared to this mystery previous fine which was sent back and I'm not sure what's best to do? Really worried that I've been sent to court already over this mystery fine I only found out about when the over zealous inspector said a fine got returned to them saying I don't live there. Unsure what to do! Really worried as I can't afford any fines as it, especially as I'm an active Network Rail discount card holder.

 

[Gloster]

I AM NOT ONE OF THE EXPERTS, who will no doubt be along with advice soon, but I have two points.

Are you saying that you do own a valid Network Railcard, but had not got it with you when you were stopped last week? If you do own one, have you, since you bought it, been stopped when making the same mistake, i.e. leaving it behind when using a ticket with a Network Railcard discount.

When you move, try to arrange that all your post is forwarded to your new address, either by using a Royal Mail Redirection Order (if possible) or by somebody reliable readdressing it.

 

[Haywain]

Greater Anglia said only 4 people live there & I don't.

Are you on the electoral register for that address? That is probably where GA are checking to see if the address is genuine (and, incidentally, I have no idea what a Property Protection Scheme is or whether that makes any difference).

 

[peterpauls]

I AM NOT ONE OF THE EXPERTS, who will no doubt be along with advice soon, but I have two points.

Are you saying that you do own a valid Network Railcard, but had not got it with you when you were stopped last week? If you do own one, have you, since you bought it, been stopped when making the same mistake, i.e. leaving it behind when using a ticket with a Network Railcard discount.

When you move, try to arrange that all your post is forwarded to your new address, either by using a Royal Mail Redirection Order (if possible) or by somebody reliable readdressing it.

Hello, thank you for your reply

Yes, I have a valid Network Rail discount card which is valid, I just did not have it on my person. Every other time I've been able to produce my railcard (I keep it in my satchel which i didn't have last week)

I was told I had to pay the fine there & then. They could not send it to my address as on their system it says someone with my exact name & address was sent a fine for the same issue but was returned to Greater Anglia saying nobody lives there under that name.

It is complicated my address, its literally a vacant care home. I'm really worried that I have a court issue over this mystery fine I know nothing about.

Last week, sure, I didn't have my network rail card, I can appeal with my membership number etc as its valid & in date but I'm worried appealing will now cause me serious trouble from this supposed previous fine that was sent & returned to Greater Anglia as I'm not registered at that address being property protection & literally a vacant care home.

The only thing I can think of is someone giving my name & address from whenever that was in the past. I know I won't be on any cctv but I'm really worried I've got an outstanding fine from the past I know nothing about. Only found out when I had to be this recent fine for not having my card on me.

Really worried there's some sort of warrant out for me or I owe loads of money. I was literally just going to work, even logged in to National Rail which showed my name & valid membership but still £30 fine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2022 ==

Are you on the electoral register for that address? That is probably where GA are checking to see if the address is genuine (and, incidentally, I have no idea what a Property Protection Scheme is or whether that makes any difference).

Hello

No, we are not on the electoral register.

It's basically empty buildings, very cheap rent but with it being a vacant care home nobody ever shows up on there. Greater Anglia told me I had a previous fine sent there, which was sent back to them saying I don't live there. Really unsure what to do?

I'm happy paying this recent fine, well not happy but I feel like I'm about to be blamed for this previous case I know nothing about. Horrible feeling as I'm not sure what to do.

 

[island]

No, we are not on the electoral register.

It's an offence not to be on the electoral register, so you'd best sort that out too.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Is it this kind of thing that you mean by a “property protection scheme”?

Vacant property protection and security, from Live-in Guardians

Live-in Guardians are vacant property specialists providing a property guardian scheme to assist with empty rates relief and vacant property security.

liveinguardians.com

So you get to live cheaply in such buildings and the owners don’t have to worry as much about squatters as a result? Never heard of such a scheme, but it sounds remarkably sensible.

 

[Watershed]

The Penalty Fare you have been issued last week with is a separate matter to any previous Penalty Fare or prosecution. If it turns out that you have an unpaid Court fine, it will make little difference whether you appeal this Penalty Fare or not - it will work its way through the processes and you will eventually be asked to pay it (at that point, you have the option to make a statutory declaration if you knew nothing about the proceedings).

As you held a valid Railcard but simply didn't have it on you, you should contact Greater Anglia's customer services to obtain a refund of the Penalty Fare, rather than appealing it. When you write to them, I wouldn't bring up this other alleged Penalty Fare - it's for them to raise if they want to try and claim it has some relevance. You can see the details of the process to obtain a refund here.

 

[furlong]

Each matter is separate and you should consider them separately.

In practice you can't always rely on exactly what you were told by the inspector - "misunderstandings" or "erroneous assumptions" are not uncommon in these sorts of interactions.

As well as writing to GA as Watershed suggests, I would also lodge an appeal though, as we know that in practice these types of cases are sometimes handled that way. At least, if you don't get a positive reply from GA before the appeal deadline then lodge the appeal as well.

 

[Titfield]

It's basically empty buildings, very cheap rent but with it being a vacant care home nobody ever shows up on there. Greater Anglia told me I had a previous fine sent there, which was sent back to them saying I don't live there. Really unsure what to do?

This sounds to me as if there is some form of blanket postal address redirection in force hence mail being returned to sender. Furthermore if there is no record of you living there then this could cause further complications in the future as it could almost appear that you are of no fixed abode. NB I am not casting aspersions as to your character or integrity but simply surmising how it could appear to an organisation trying to contact you.

 

[RPI]

It always bugs me when some Inspectors tell people that a PF has to be paid on the spot, as long as name and address details were provided then thats not the case, but thats irrelevant now.

If you have a valid railcard then appeal producing a picture of your railcard, you have one opportunity a year to "forget" your railcard without having to pay.

 

[peterpauls]

It's an offence not to be on the electoral register, so you'd best sort that out too.

Thank you, its a real grey area as no council tax is paid either. We are technically licensee's, we have zero tenancy rights, technically pay to work as security cards. There are no bills at all, it's far from ideal but its not by choice

 

[WesternLancer]

No, we are not on the electoral register.

It's basically empty buildings, very cheap rent but with it being a vacant care home nobody ever shows up on there. Greater Anglia told me I had a previous fine sent there, which was sent back to them saying I don't live there. Really unsure what to do?

The problem will not be helped be the transient nature of your housing of course

You can try setting up Royal Mail redirections when you move form place to place (another cost of course) - or is there any chance that a trusted family member or friend would allow you to use their address as a contact point or care / of postal address? Could you also register to vote at such a family member's address.

If not, you can register to vote where you are and update it every time you move (this is called the 'Rolling Register') and can permit an update every month - this may help - but they do match data like NI numbers with addresses and when they don't match (as your may well not do so due to your mobility) you get asked by the local council in the area concerned - they manage electoral registration - to supply supporting evidence of your entitlement to vote - eg passport copy for example.

As posted by another person it is technically an offence to not be registered to vote if you are over 18 (tho v rare to hear of this being enforced, this applies even if you are not actually allowed to vote, confusingly) - that does not mean you have to actually vote if you do not wish to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2022 ==

Thank you, its a real grey area as no council tax is paid either. We are technically licensee's, we have zero tenancy rights, technically pay to work as security cards. There are no bills at all, it's far from ideal but its not by choice

There is no connection between voter registration and council tax liability IIRC - if that re-assures you!

 

[peterpauls]

Hello. Yes, that is a well known firm who do exactly that. I've lived with them before, in the old University of Westminster by Paddington Basin. I was in the science block. Huge rooms, indoor basketball courts & football courts it's sad it has to happen but its the cheapest option for me

 

[peterpauls]

The Penalty Fare you have been issued last week with is a separate matter to any previous Penalty Fare or prosecution. If it turns out that you have an unpaid Court fine, it will make little difference whether you appeal this Penalty Fare or not - it will work its way through the processes and you will eventually be asked to pay it (at that point, you have the option to make a statutory declaration if you knew nothing about the proceedings).

As you held a valid Railcard but simply didn't have it on you, you should contact Greater Anglia's customer services to obtain a refund of the Penalty Fare, rather than appealing it. When you write to them, I wouldn't bring up this other alleged Penalty Fare - it's for them to raise if they want to try and claim it has some relevance. You can see the details of the process to obtain a refund here.

Hello. Thank you for your solid advice. That's a relief, I will be appealing the fine I've paid as I have a valid Network rail card. I couldn't afford spending nearly £50 just to get to work today, It's my fault not having my card but I did sign in online & showed my account details & showed my expiry date August 2023. I won't mention anything else in the appeal. I phoned ARKAS today & asked if there was any other fines in my name at my post code & they said zero, none whatsoever. That's a big relief for me to hear, now I'm unsure if the inspector was correct in saying there's a historical mystery fine at all. Thank you for your help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2022 ==

Each matter is separate and you should consider them separately.

In practice you can't always rely on exactly what you were told by the inspector - "misunderstandings" or "erroneous assumptions" are not uncommon in these sorts of interactions.

As well as writing to GA as Watershed suggests, I would also lodge an appeal though, as we know that in practice these types of cases are sometimes handled that way. At least, if you don't get a positive reply from GA before the appeal deadline then lodge the appeal as well.

Hi thank you very much

I will do that & appeal. I showed my online account still being valid but wouldn't accept it. Annoyingly I keep it in my satchel, as I usually have it every day, just not today.

I called ARKAS & they said apart from last week, there is no other outstanding fines in my name nor that address so I do think the inspector didn't have the correct information, at best. Because of what they said, I'm still paranoid & worried that's its already happened, I will appeal this recent fine & try not to worry about this historical, mystery fine I know nothing about. I'm thinking of calling the courts next just to confirm what ARKAS said.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2022 ==

The problem will not be helped be the transient nature of your housing of course

You can try setting up Royal Mail redirections when you move form place to place (another cost of course) - or is there any chance that a trusted family member or friend would allow you to use their address as a contact point or care / of postal address? Could you also register to vote at such a family member's address.

If not, you can register to vote where you are and update it every time you move (this is called the 'Rolling Register') and can permit an update every month - this may help - but they do match data like NI numbers with addresses and when they don't match (as your may well not do so due to your mobility) you get asked by the local council in the area concerned - they manage electoral registration - to supply supporting evidence of your entitlement to vote - eg passport copy for example.

As posted by another person it is technically an offence to not be registered to vote if you are over 18 (tho v rare to hear of this being enforced, this applies even if you are not actually allowed to vote, confusingly) - that does not mean you have to actually vote if you do not wish to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2022 ==


There is no connection between voter registration and council tax liability IIRC - if that re-assures you!

Hello! Thank you very much! I've heard other "property guardians" say they were unable to as living in what's still registered as a commercial building, police stations, library's, care homes etc we are there until they get knocked down. I will look into it as we have zero protections, places aren't always safe easier but I digress. Thank you very much, I will certainly look into it, the problem we have is our company/landlord are only able to operate like this as there's no legislation stopping them, we are encouraged NOT to contact councils / voting register type things which we know is crazy but like most of us, if we were ever booted from there then it's literally straight on the streets. Don't think I'll ever be able to afford to buy a house in Britain but I don't intend being in these places for ever put it that way! Thank you

 

[peterpauls]

It always bugs me when some Inspectors tell people that a PF has to be paid on the spot, as long as name and address details were provided then thats not the case, but thats irrelevant now.

If you have a valid railcard then appeal producing a picture of your railcard, you have one opportunity a year to "forget" your railcard without having to pay.

Yes, I've been so worried over this. Not this most recent fine as I know I've got a valid Network rail card, its just these people don't realise how much I needed that £50 wasted that day! It's my fault for not having it on my person but I even logged in online & tried to show same name, details, still valid etc didn't work but its not that I'm worried about. It's this business about something else being in my name at that address from an unknown date which was returned to sender. I don't know if they are the correct body but ARKAS confirmed over the phone they have nothing else outstanding in my name or postcode so I've taken some calmness in that. I will request refund, appeal & hope nothing else turns up. I intend to be nothing but honest if it does but it does worry me even though I knew literally nothing about the alleged historical fine which only Greater Anglia say I have, not ARKAS. Thank you!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2022 ==

This sounds to me as if there is some form of blanket postal address redirection in force hence mail being returned to sender. Furthermore if there is no record of you living there then this could cause further complications in the future as it could almost appear that you are of no fixed abode. NB I am not casting aspersions as to your character or integrity but simply surmising how it could appear to an organisation trying to contact you.

Hello.
Yes that is a possible option. We do get mail but its sporadic at best. 90% of it is for former care residents. None of us "property guardians" are officially registered there as technically we are working there as licences not tenants. We pay to go to work basically, so we can live there. It's not ideal at all, not by choice & I can't speak for all guardians but nobody wants to rock the boat. You are totally correct in how it would appear to anybody trying to contact us, its just the only option I really have, once the police station is sold after here at the care home, we will be sent somewhere else, every 12-18 months it happens, it's why I'm worried to be honest. ARKAS said I have no warrants or fines outstanding I'm thinking I should ask the courts too. Thank you!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello! Thank you very much! I've heard other "property guardians" say they were unable to as living in what's still registered as a commercial building, police stations, library's, care homes etc we are there until they get knocked down. I will look into it as we have zero protections, places aren't always safe easier but I digress. Thank you very much, I will certainly look into it, the problem we have is our company/landlord are only able to operate like this as there's no legislation stopping them, we are encouraged NOT to contact councils / voting register type things which we know is crazy but like most of us, if we were ever booted from there then it's literally straight on the streets. Don't think I'll ever be able to afford to buy a house in Britain but I don't intend being in these places for ever put it that way! Thank you

I can imagine the issues, however, AFAIK it is possible to register to vote at an address that is not classified as a 'residential address' - residential addresses are going to be listed for council tax as 'residential', addresses that are not will be Business Rateable property - but the council's electoral registration team should help overcome this problem (but speak to them about it, not the council tax team) - property owners should not be advising you to loose your democracy right to vote - which might play a small part in your future chances of being able to afford a home after all!

You may know it already of course but I note this is dealt with in a set of govt guidance on Property Guardians that may be of use to you if you have not seen it before.

Property guardians: guidance

www.gov.uk

Can property guardians register to vote?​

Property guardians may be eligible to register to vote at the address they are occupying. You can register to vote online, and it only takes 5 minutes. The criteria for who can register to vote are the same as for anyone else living in the UK, and vary depending on citizenship and which part of the UK you live in. You can find out more at the Electoral Commission website.

But good luck with the railway fare issue - plenty of help here when you need it.

 

[peterpauls]

I can imagine the issues, however, AFAIK it is possible to register to vote at an address that is not classified as a 'residential address' - residential addresses are going to be listed for council tax as 'residential', addresses that are not will be Business Rateable property - but the council's electoral registration team should help overcome this problem (but speak to them about it, not the council tax team) - property owners should not be advising you to loose your democracy right to vote - which might play a small part in your future chances of being able to afford a home after all!

You may know it already of course but I note this is dealt with in a set of govt guidance on Property Guardians that may be of use to you if you have not seen it before.

Property guardians: guidance

www.gov.uk

Can property guardians register to vote?​

Property guardians may be eligible to register to vote at the address they are occupying. You can register to vote online, and it only takes 5 minutes. The criteria for who can register to vote are the same as for anyone else living in the UK, and vary depending on citizenship and which part of the UK you live in. You can find out more at the Electoral Commission website.

But good luck with the railway fare issue - plenty of help here when you need it.

Thank you All so much. Incredibly helpful, all far more knowledgeable & articulate than me, I really do appreciate it. Thank you for that, it's something I will pursue without my landlord/company hopefully finding out, they boot us for anything so I will be doing without informing them. Hopefully I'll be able to register in a building which is still registered as a police station, I'm going to find out. Thanks again really appreciate it

 

[peterpauls]

Thank you All so much. Incredibly helpful, all far more knowledgeable & articulate than me, I really do appreciate it. Thank you for that, it's something I will pursue without my landlord/company hopefully finding out, they boot us for anything so I will be doing without informing them. Hopefully I'll be able to register in a building which is still registered as a police station, I'm going to find out. Thanks again really appreciate it

Also one small minor point, it's not Greenwich police station that was a couple of years back, it's Hornsey police station. Side track here but in the last 5 years the amount of large police stations that have been sold off is scary to be honest, surprised it's never in the news.

Thanks again, I will request a refund, appeal my fine, try & not worry about this alleged, mysterious historical fine and will endeavour to get on the electoral roll and yes if I am ever able to vote, I've not a clue who I'll vote for but I certainly know who I won't. Every aspect of my life is a stress lol

Been massively eased by this group, honestly, thank you so much. Big Love ✌

 

[Mawkie]

It's an offence not to be on the electoral register, so you'd best sort that out too.

Isn't the offence committed only by ignoring an invitation to register, rather than by merely not being on the register?

 

[WesternLancer]

Isn't the offence committed only by ignoring an invitation to register, rather than by merely not being on the register?

I'm not sure of the technicality in fact - tho I do think councils bringing cases to prosecute must be very rare indeed. But this risks getting off topic!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2022 ==

Also one small minor point, it's not Greenwich police station that was a couple of years back, it's Hornsey police station. Side track here but in the last 5 years the amount of large police stations that have been sold off is scary to be honest, surprised it's never in the news.

Thanks again, I will request a refund, appeal my fine, try & not worry about this alleged, mysterious historical fine and will endeavour to get on the electoral roll and yes if I am ever able to vote, I've not a clue who I'll vote for but I certainly know who I won't. Every aspect of my life is a stress lol

Been massively eased by this group, honestly, thank you so much. Big Love ✌

Just head back here if you need advice on rail ticket fine / penalty fare appeals and how to word those etc. Seems like appeals often have to go to various steps but people will advice if you ask here.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Hello. Yes, that is a well known firm who do exactly that. I've lived with them before, in the old University of Westminster by Paddington Basin. I was in the science block. Huge rooms, indoor basketball courts & football courts it's sad it has to happen but its the cheapest option for me

Good for you. Just to be absolutely clear, I don’t think one has anything whatsoever to be ashamed of if entering into such an arrangement.

 

[peterpauls]

I'm not sure of the technicality in fact - tho I do think councils bringing cases to prosecute must be very rare indeed. But this risks getting off topic!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2022 ==


Just head back here if you need advice on rail ticket fine / penalty fare appeals and how to word those etc. Seems like appeals often have to go to various steps but people will advice if you ask here.

Thank you! Will do

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2022 ==

Good for you. Just to be absolutely clear, I don’t think one has anything whatsoever to be ashamed of if entering into such an arrangement.

Thank you! You was very clear. What I wrote reads a bit doom & gloom which was not my objective. There's positives to it, just serious safety issues & zero tenancy rights, no insurance & no protections. It fills a very large gap in our society. There are musicians & artists but NHS staff & teachers too. I was born in London, trying my hardest not to leave! Mad times. Thanks very much

 

[some bloke]

I'm now worried what will happen from this previous fine that was sent to me without me knowing & if I appeal the one I do know about that I'll have a huge fine or court problems.

Really worried that I've been sent to court already over this mystery fine

Really worried there's some sort of warrant out for me or I owe loads of money

I phoned ARKAS today & asked if there was any other fines in my name at my post code & they said zero, none whatsoever. That's a big relief for me to hear, now I'm unsure if the inspector was correct in saying there's a historical mystery fine at all.

Refund from GA

The basis on which you are entitled to a refund of the penalty fare if you forgot your railcard on that particular occasion is Condition 8.6 in the National Rail Conditions of Travel:

Your Rights and Obligations as a Passenger | National Rail

When you buy a train ticket to travel on the rail network, you enter into an agreement with the train companies. Find out about your rights and obligations as a passenger, and how to get more information.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

It's also covered here:

Railcards FAQs

www.greateranglia.co.uk

Finding out about the "mystery penalty fare/fine"

After the penalty fare is refunded by GA, or overturned and refunded, you could if you want write to GA, saying:

- Their staff member claimed there was a previous penalty fare with your details (if that's what they said rather than a court fine)

- "I would appreciate clarification...Please supply details of any and all relevant incidents" mentioning that you have never been previously asked for details (or whatever the relevant fact/s is/are in your case). Make clear that you would like to know both about penalty fares and other relevant occasions when your details were taken.

- You are concerned someone else may have given your details.

If necessary you could put in a Subject Access Request.




Criminal court case if someone gave your details

Just to cover this, without saying it's likely: If a conviction were registered with your details, then provided you submit a valid statutory declaration to the magistrates' court within 21 days of finding out about the proceedings, the court is obliged to void the conviction. The case would then start again from the stage of written charge/application for summons, and you could then put to the company that it wasn't you. (In fact you could tell them before the court voids the conviction so they have advance notice and may drop the case faster.) The company would then need, if they wanted to persist, to prove you were guilty beyond reasonable doubt, which might seem hard for them to achieve.

Statutory declaration of ignorance of proceedings

Use this form to make a declaration of ignorance of proceedings

www.gov.uk

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/759/rule/44.2/made



Civil court case if someone gave your details

If I understand correctly, the consensus on this forum is that train companies are not known to have ever pursued alleged penalty fare debts through a civil court, even if they have got debt collectors to send letters.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2022 ==

I was told that I had to pay the fine on the spot as somebody with the same name had already sent a fine to that address

That sounds a legitimate ground for complaint, if it's important to you.

Penalty Fares Regulation 5(2)(h) says the collector must provide in writing,

"a statement that the person must either pay, or appeal against, the penalty fare within 21 days...".

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366/made

It also seems your financial situation was such that you would certainly not have paid if you had been, correctly, given the choice. That would tend to give credibility to a claim that the collector gave you the wrong information verbally, and so went against the spirit of the regulations.

 

[island]

Penalty Fares Regulation 5(2)(h) says the collector must provide in writing,

"a statement that the person must either pay, or appeal against, the penalty fare within 21 days...".

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366/made

It also seems your financial situation was such that you would certainly not have paid if you had been, correctly, given the choice. That would tend to give credibility to a claim that the collector gave you the wrong information verbally, and so went against the spirit of the regulations.

Nothing turns on what was "said" if the proper notice was given in writing; going against "the spirit of the regulations" is not relevant.

 

[zero]

Isn't the offence committed only by ignoring an invitation to register, rather than by merely not being on the register?

AFAIK this is correct. But councils also send around an annual canvas form and it is an offence to not fill that in and to not include details of all occupants, who would then be sent invitations to register.

So it is possible for an unregistered person to not have committed an offence, but for someone else, who filled in the annual canvas untruthfully, to have committed an offence.

And it is possible for nobody to have committed an offence when the unreigstered person moves frequently and isn't living at a property at the time when the annual canvas is sent.

 

[some bloke]

Nothing turns on what was "said" if the proper notice was given in writing; going against "the spirit of the regulations" is not relevant.

The suggestion relates to a possible complaint rather than a formal appeal.

It is poor treatment of a passenger for staff to claim falsely that money has to be paid immediately, especially as it may be important for the passenger to have that money available for other purposes.

The staff member's purported justification for the false claim - about there having been a previous incident - has no relevance, as the regulation makes clear.

It may be that the staff member made the false claim and put forward the misleading "justification" before handing over the written notification, so that the passenger could only rely on what was said rather than written. In any case, it may seem reasonable for the passenger to rely on what was said, rather than having to read through all the detail at the time and start an argument with the staff member about regulations which clearly staff are meant to know as part of their job.

 

[nap666]

There two bits to the legislation regarding voter registration.
1. Invitation to Register - Failure to complete/Register is covered by RPR 2001 and imposes an £80 civil penalty for failure to register. It can be cancelled at any point by registering. Not aware of any being issued.
2. Canvass /Household Enquiry Form / Residential Enquiry Form covered by other legislation, failure to complete or provide information to the ERO could result in fine of up to £1000 on conviction. Rare but generally not worth effort or cost to ERO.
The OP could register using a "Declaration of Local Connection" instead, this allows people to register when homeless or similar, so could register as Tesco doorway.
Speak to the Electoral Registration at the council they will be happy to advise.