First to close Southampton depot

[Flange Squeal]

First has informed staff that they are intending to close their Cityred operation in Southampton from Sunday 19th February 2023. The briefing reads:

Closure of Southampton Depot


It is with much regret that I must inform you that we are proposing to close our operation in Southampton from Sunday 19th February 2023.

Job opportunities are available for all our staff within the UK Bus division, and we will look to support colleagues to work from a different location across the UK Bus division including our depots in the surrounding areas. We have today begun the collective consultation process with the Trade Unions on the possibility of some redundancies in Southampton.

(Image depicts staff briefing as per above text)

 

[Nammer]

Sad news for the staff employed by CityRed. I hope they all find employment in these current tough times. The local HQ for Dorset, Solent & Berkshire is at the Empress Road depot in Southampton. The depot itself is only about 10 or so years old, so I wonder how this will affect that too.

 

[James H]

As in Bournemouth, will Go Ahead simply create a single network?

 

[themeone]

Just heard about First pulling out of Southampton. In the five years I've lived there I've seen their route network gradually shrink, and often wondered how long they would survive.

 

[RELL6L]

That's pretty dramatic news. The network has reduced a lot with Bluestar expanding in its place, there's a lot of overlap now and probably wasteful competition but there are a number of sections served only by First. I wonder if they tried to sell it to anyone? In times past maybe Stagecoach would have ben interested, probably not now.

That said with nearly 3 months notice the obvious candidate to replace things has a great deal longer to plan what it might do than was the case in Bournemouth where action was needed virtually overnight. I have no doubt that Go South Coast / Bluestar can tweak its existing network plus a few new services to cover all the current routes sufficiently using much less resources than are used now. Maybe Xelabus will pick up a few pieces but I can't see any interest from Stagecoach or anyone else to come in here. Is the bus driver shortage significant here?

One assumes that the X4 & X5 will continue to come into Southampton from Fareham but I doubt if it is worth trying to operate anything else in the town by interworking with them - it won't go well.

 

[Hophead]

The X4 & X5 suffer enough late-running as it is. Linking to another route will not, as you say, work (unless First add a reasonable amount of layover, which clearly isn't going to happen).

This is all rather sudden though, isn't it? I mean, they only extended the 8 through to Southampton General a few weeks ago, while the 3 gained a number of Streetdecks over the summer.

I suspect that things will wind down rapidly from the New Year as staff scarper - if I had less than 2 years service, I'd be on to Blue Star sharpish, unless First are offering some sort of loyalty payment.

------

So sudden, in fact, that there seems to be no link from First Southampton's home page to the relevant news item:

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/southampton/news-and-service-updates/leaving

 

[Killingworth]

Bluestar stepping in, Go Ahead Group; https://www.bluestarbus.co.uk/bluestar-steps-following-news-first-bus-leave-southampton

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This is all rather sudden though, isn't it? I mean, they only extended the 8 through to Southampton General a few weeks ago, while the 3 gained a number of Streetdecks over the summer.

Carol Sim was tweeting images of the latest promo items last week - the Cityred pen and keyring combo may be collectors item!

Have to say that there hadn't been any chatter about this though arguably it's been an operation on its uppers for a while. Seems to have caught the staff by surprise. So that's First purged out of Northampton and Southampton. Also, 35 years after they first sent out some knackered VRs, Solent Blue Line (aka BlueStar) has finally dealt the final blow to what was Southampton City Transport.

 

[Surreyman]

My thoughts: -
1. The 'new' First Board are deadly serious about running a 'viable business' i.e not frightened to abandon operating subsidiaries that don't pay or are not believed to have a profitable future.
2. Go South Coast did a magnificent job in covering the Yellow Bus operation when it closed down, so are well placed to 'beef-up' the Bluestar operation.
3. Public funds provided for some of the Streetlites to be upgraded to Euro 6, presumably they will now be transferred to another part of the First empire.
4. Southampton is a dwindling example of an area in the UK with 2 main operators going 'head to head' in competition with each other.
5. First in Southampton appears to have an operational fleet of @ 52 buses, there will be no need for a like number of replacements but parking at Eastleigh & Totton is finite?

 

[Beemax]

This is a sad end to a process that has been ongoing since 1987. At that time, Solent Blueline was considered a cowboy operation that had set up in a goods yard about half a mile from where the Empress Road Depot is now. Slowly. the Blue Line/Blue star operation has grown, and the Southampton City Transport operation has declined, not helped by the First takeover in 1997. Many of the 'captive ' bus passengers in Southampton are students, so Go-Ahead adding Unlink to Bluestar in their portfolio added to the decline, since it forced First to give up on any services north of Portswood. Go Ahead will now more or less have a monopoly in Southampton, which in a declining market is probably better for the customers than having two companies fighting over the scraps. One positive for the drivers is that there is probably a lot of demand for their services, though it may be more difficult for the admin staff.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This is a sad end to a process that has been ongoing since 1987. At that time, Solent Blueline was considered a cowboy operation that had set up in a goods yard about half a mile from where the Empress Road Depot is now. Slowly. the Blue Line/Blue star operation has grown, and the Southampton City Transport operation has declined, not helped by the First takeover in 1997. Many of the 'captive ' bus passengers in Southampton are students, so Go-Ahead adding Unlink to Bluestar in their portfolio added to the decline, since it forced First to give up on any services north of Portswood. Go Ahead will now more or less have a monopoly in Southampton, which in a declining market is probably better for the customers than having two companies fighting over the scraps. One positive for the drivers is that there is probably a lot of demand for their services, though it may be more difficult for the admin staff.

It didn't grow so slowly - they did purchase the Southampton and Eastleigh operations of Hampshire Bus in 1987 so that gave them an immediate leg up. However, that aside, you're bang on in that they have done a job on First (who also mismanaged the business) and the Unilink contract really did give them an advantage so that First pulled out of many areas. Also, as alluded to above, you can't imagine that they could manage that level of overhead with an allocation of 52 vehicles.

In some ways, it's sad to see though most engineering and driving staff should hopefully be ok, and perhaps this will put things onto a sustainable footing. Andrew Wickham must be well pleased after seeing off both Yellow Buses and now First in recent months. Whilst GSC aren't perfect, they are a decent firm.

 

[Lewlew]

As an ex employee of First and ex resident of Southampton it’s good riddance from me!

Bluestar have always been the better operator, if they decide on a route then they stick with it, for the most part.

First were always chopping and changing their routes and timetables causing a lot of instability for their long suffering customers that were stuck with them.

 

[PTR 444]

As someone who has been following the Southampton Bus Update blog for several years, I could see this day eventually coming. My thoughts go out to everyone currently employed at CityRed and hope they all find employment in these current tough times.

My earliest recollection of First's Southampton network was in the autumn of 2009 when my sister started university. At that time, it boasted regular bus services services along Hill Lane, Wilton Road, Palm Road, North East Road and Jurds Lake Way. Today very few of these roads are served by a bus, and the ones that do are very sporadic.

The 2012 network recast and subsequent introduction of The Three and City Red brands might have neatened the network up a little, but in terms of overall city coverage this was the beginning of the downward spiral, with Bluestar stepping in to take over a shrinking former Citybus network.

 

[Simon75]

Would Blue Star be interested in buying the First Southampton garage, or have they enough space at their garage?

 

[stevenedin]

I wonder if the buses will just be sent to replace older vehicles elsewhere in the First Group network

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wonder if the buses will just be sent to replace older vehicles elsewhere in the First Group network

Almost certainly - doubt Bluestar will be buying them

 

[pompeyfan]

Almost certainly - doubt Bluestar will be buying them

Am I right in believing it’s a handful of 63 plate Streetlite max, 5 street decks and 30 15 plate 10.8 SL? I’m sure they’ll see off any thirsty Volvos in the FG empire such as Slough or Wales

 

[Flange Squeal]

The following has been posted on the Bluestar website:

We will be stepping in to run additional services across Southampton, following news that fellow bus operator First Bus has decided to withdraw from the area, from Sunday 19 February.

"We understand that local people and visitors may be worried that bus travel across the region will be impacted by this decision - but they need not be concerned,” said Andrew Wickham, Bluestar managing director.

“I can reassure them that Bluestar is ready to step in, to ensure bus users can still get to where they need to go. From 19 February 2023, the city and its surrounding area will be covered by a very similar level of services - albeit with different coloured buses running the routes.

We will be working hard over the coming months to plan the new services.”

Bluestar’s parent company, Go South Coast, is no stranger to saving the day when services have been withdrawn by fellow operators. Earlier this year, another of its companies, Morebus, worked tirelessly to ensure people in Bournemouth and Poole continued to enjoy comprehensive bus services - following the collapse of Bournemouth Transport Ltd (Yellow Buses).

“With little more then 48 hours’ notice, our team at Morebus recruited more than 100 new staff, and implemented a raft of new services in-and-around Bournemouth and Poole. Despite its speedy introduction, the new operation got off to a fantastic start - and continues to run smoothly across the region.

“On this occasion, we have a little more time, and are already planning the new routes and timetables. We will announce these as soon as they are complete.

“We are very proud to be helping to keep our communities running. And we look forward to welcoming new colleagues and customers on board, as we aim to transform Southampton bus services for the better over the coming months and years.”

Source: https://www.bluestarbus.co.uk/bluestar-steps-following-news-first-bus-leave-southampton

 

[route101]

The City Red fleet wasnt the most exciting, pretty much all streetlites apart from 3 Streetdecks or is it two now?

I somehow got the feeling some Southampton residents were loyal to Cityred.

Has anyone got old Cityred route maps and list of routes lost over the years?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Am I right in believing it’s a handful of 63 plate Streetlite max, 5 street decks and 30 15 plate 10.8 SL? I’m sure they’ll see off any thirsty Volvos in the FG empire such as Slough or Wales

Think they have a few extra Streetdecks as some have just arrived from Bristol - they might end up with similar in Norwich? Other than that, it is Streetlites with most being standard length (14/15 plate) and then a dozen or so Max ones that were displaced from Star routes at Hilsea

And yes, I was thinking the same in that Streetlites may indeed replace some more Eclipses (which incidentally have suddenly become much rarer). Might suggest the last few in Weymouth will also be replaced by Streetlites.

I somehow got the feeling some Southampton residents were loyal to Cityred.

Some might have been, some had no choice, but others were loyal to the first vehicle, red or blue, that came along. Hence the procession of buses through Shirley. Trying to be positive but that might allow BlueStar to rationalise routes and put things on a more sustainable footing.

 

[overthewater]

Its been 35 years in the making...

 

[F Great Eastern]

So it seems that this was the first task for the new boss in that neck of the woods after Marc Reddy leaving the group. Makes you wonder if that was part of reason Simon Goff got the job over his own boss in the reorganisation.

 

[PTR 444]

Has anyone got old Cityred route maps and list of routes lost over the years?

Since the 2012 network recast:

• 1 (first incarnation): Ran between Adanac Park and Weston via Palm Road and City Centre. City - Weston replaced with route 11 in 2013. Rest of route was wound down until its complete withdrawal in November 2017.
• 2/2A (first incarnation): Ran between Lordshill and Townhill/Harefield via Millbrook and City Centre. Replaced with routes 12 and 13 in 2013.
• X2: Ran between Millbrook and City Centre fast via the A33 dual carriageway. Withdrawn in 2013 and replaced with the current route 2.
• 5: Ran between Sholing and Bassett Green via City Centre. Withdrawn in 2015 with no First replacement, although Bluestar introduced their route 7 to cover the City - Sholing portion.
• 8A: Ran between General Hospital and Hedge End via Wilton Road and City Centre, interworking with the 8. Withdrawn in 2014.
• 10 (first incarnation): Ran between City Centre and Totton via Hill Lane and General Hospital. Withdrawn in 2014 with no replacement.
• 10 (second incarnation): Direct copy of Bluestar 18 between City and Thornhill. Replaced with extension of route 2 in November 2017 before being withdrawn 3 months later.
• 12: Ran between Lordshill and Townhill via Millbrook, City Centre and Merry Oak. City - Townhill diverted via Northam in 2014 before being withdrawn a year later, replaced with Bluestar 16. City - Lordshill withdrawn in 2018 and replaced with extension of Bluestar 7.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just reminds me (tangentially) that I passed what looked like 6 Bluestar Eclipses on the M5 on Saturday near Droitwich; they might have to get them back!!!

 

[themeone]

I agree with the earlier comment about First not managing things very well in Southampton. For example one of their newer routes, the 1, is always very lightly loaded. Hardly surprising since at the Totton end it duplicates Bluestar 12, but then doesn't serve some places into Southampton, such as Millbrook Roundabout, where more passengers might be picked up. The one place it did used to pick up some passengers was Millbrook Road East, but I notice that route's now been abandoned in favour of Mountbatten Way, where there are no bus stops!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2022 ==

The one place it did used to pick up some passengers was Millbrook Road East

Oops, meant to say Waterloo Road.

 

[busestrains]

So this means Go Ahead will pretty much have an almost 100% monopoly in the Dorset and Hampshire and Wiltshire areas including almost 100% of the cities of Bournemouth and Southampton which are pretty large cities. This is bad news for passengers as it will just mean the already extortionate prices will become even more expensive. Look at the Isle Of Wight which has absolutely zero competition and has by far the most extortionate rip off fares in the entire UK as Go Ahead have taken advantage of being the only operator on the island.

I really do wonder how much longer the Berkshire and Portsmouth operations will last. I can not imagine them lasting much longer. In particular i am surprised they still have their Berkshire operation which is tiny these days. It used to be huge but now almost nothing of their Berkshire operation is left. I can not imagine this will last much longer. I reckon Berkshire and Portsmouth will both be gone within the next year or two.

On the positive side at least that will be the end of Southampton having the extremely confusing practise of both operators using the same numbers for their completely different routes. That is certainly a positive of this. At least it will simplify it for the passengers.

What will happen to the Portsmouth to Southampton route that First run? Is it likely that First will keep it with its Portsmouth operation? Or will Go Ahead run this route? Currently is it run from Portsmouth depot or Southampton depot or mixed?

 

[PTR 444]

So this means Go Ahead will pretty much have an almost 100% monopoly in the Dorset and Hampshire and Wiltshire areas including almost 100% of the cities of Bournemouth and Southampton which are pretty large cities. This is bad news for passengers as it will just mean the already extortionate prices will become even more expensive. Look at the Isle Of Wight which has absolutely zero competition and has by far the most extortionate rip off fares in the entire UK as Go Ahead have taken advantage of being the only operator on the island.

I really do wonder how much longer the Berkshire and Portsmouth operations will last. I can not imagine them lasting much longer. In particular i am surprised they still have their Berkshire operation which is tiny these days. It used to be huge but now almost nothing of their Berkshire operation is left. I can not imagine this will last much longer. I reckon Berkshire and Portsmouth will both be gone within the next year or two.

On the positive side at least that will be the end of Southampton having the extremely confusing practise of both operators using the same numbers for their completely different routes. That is certainly a positive of this. At least it will simplify it for the passengers.

What will happen to the Portsmouth to Southampton route that First run? Is it likely that First will keep it with its Portsmouth operation? Or will Go Ahead run this route? Currently is it run from Portsmouth depot or Southampton depot or mixed?

From the Southampton Bus Update website, it appears that the X4 Southampton to Portsmouth and X5 Southampton to Gosport will remain with First, operated from their Hoeford depot.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2022 ==

I really do wonder how much longer the Berkshire and Portsmouth operations will last. I can not imagine them lasting much longer. In particular i am surprised they still have their Berkshire operation which is tiny these days. It used to be huge but now almost nothing of their Berkshire operation is left. I can not imagine this will last much longer. I reckon Berkshire and Portsmouth will both be gone within the next year or two.

I don’t think First will be giving up Portsmouth any time soon. They are the dominant operator in the area and I can’t see Stagecoach picking up the pieces.

 

[pompeyfan]

The X4/X5 is run out of Hoeford garage and believed to be safe, as is the whole Solent business which regularly sees large investments.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2022 ==

I don’t think First will be giving up Portsmouth any time soon. They are the dominant operator in the area and I can’t see Stagecoach picking up the pieces.

Not quite true, Stagecoach have concentrated on the trunk routes, however First have always done the suburban estate type routes which have been subsidised of late. Very different operations and a reasonably clear difference in destinations. Stagecoach Havant, First is Waterlooville and Fareham.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Just reminds me (tangentially) that I passed what looked like 6 Bluestar Eclipses on the M5 on Saturday near Droitwich; they might have to get them back!!!

Heading to Manchester for single door conversion and Citaro replacement at Go-NW.

 

[Paperyostrich]

So this means Go Ahead will pretty much have an almost 100% monopoly in the Dorset and Hampshire and Wiltshire areas including almost 100% of the cities of Bournemouth and Southampton which are pretty large cities. This is bad news for passengers as it will just mean the already extortionate prices will become even more expensive. Look at the Isle Of Wight which has absolutely zero competition and has by far the most extortionate rip off fares in the entire UK as Go Ahead have taken advantage of being the only operator on the island.

I really do wonder how much longer the Berkshire and Portsmouth operations will last. I can not imagine them lasting much longer. In particular i am surprised they still have their Berkshire operation which is tiny these days. It used to be huge but now almost nothing of their Berkshire operation is left. I can not imagine this will last much longer. I reckon Berkshire and Portsmouth will both be gone within the next year or two.

On the positive side at least that will be the end of Southampton having the extremely confusing practise of both operators using the same numbers for their completely different routes. That is certainly a positive of this. At least it will simplify it for the passengers.

What will happen to the Portsmouth to Southampton route that First run? Is it likely that First will keep it with its Portsmouth operation? Or will Go Ahead run this route? Currently is it run from Portsmouth depot or Southampton depot or mixed?

Portsmouth isn't going anywhere. The Solent brand is very strong and the fleet and routes reguarly see big investments in the fleet. I believe they are quite profitable there

Slough, it relies heavily on the airport routes which seem to do well, and the railair coach routes are quite good as well.

I think one depot that could be in danger is Yeovil, but that is for another discussion!