GWR Class 769 information. (Units no longer with GWR - Off Lease March 23)

[Ladder23]

As I sit and write this I can see a 769 stopped (westbound) just east of Chalk Pit Lane AHB crossing (Brockham, between Betchworth and Dorking) through the trees opposite my house, with a door light illuminated. It's been there for over 20 minutes. Its run to Gatwick was seemingly aborted at Redhill. Edit - still there with door light on, and 1V54 will be coming up behind it from Redhill soon. I wonder if it has failed, hit something or if there has been a landslip after all the rain. The line is on a moderate embankment there. Given the door light's illumination it would seem not to be a simple signal stop for a failed crossing, etc.

Seems to of moved!

 

[Deepgreen]

On the move now, although I notice 2O42 in the opposite direction lost 10 minutes between Dorking and Reigate whilst 5Q11 was sitting there.

Given the hooting as it departed I suspect the AHB crossing was faulty (yet again!). The 769 was revving up a lot while sitting there which made me wonder if it was in trouble. Also don't know why the door was open unless the driver had lost all other comms. and had to decamp. Also notice it made up 6 minutes by Guildford (abeit ECS) so perhaps performance was unimpaired.

 

[Ladder23]

Why does 5V10 still show in Reigate siding with nothing in there? I assumed this was a 769 but it's empty

 

[Deepgreen]

Why does 5V10 still show in Reigate siding with nothing in there? I assumed this was a 769 but it's empty

5Q11 was the 769 run (which DID get to Gatwick - my error) but didn't go into Reigate siding.

 

[zwk500]

Why does 5V10 still show in Reigate siding with nothing in there? I assumed this was a 769 but it's empty

Is this the 769 that failed the other day/week and had to be dumped in the siding? Presumably the berth hasn't been cleared out (or the data feed hasn't updated properly) from when it was retrieved.

 

[Deepgreen]

Is this the 769 that failed the other day/week and had to be dumped in the siding? Presumably the berth hasn't been cleared out (or the data feed hasn't updated properly) from when it was retrieved.

Interesting - if not yet retrieved do we how and when it might be? Loco-hauled, perhaps?

 

[zwk500]

Interesting - if not yet retrieved do we how and when it might be? Loco-hauled, perhaps?

It was already retrieved by another 769, I'm fairly sure.

 

[Ladder23]

Is this the 769 that failed the other day/week and had to be dumped in the siding? Presumably the berth hasn't been cleared out (or the data feed hasn't updated properly) from when it was retrieved.

Thanks, i kept checking, thinking another had turned up! I can stop panicking now

 

[TurboMan]

As I sit and write this I can see a 769 stopped (westbound) just east of Chalk Pit Lane AHB crossing (Brockham, between Betchworth and Dorking) through the trees opposite my house, with a door light illuminated. It's been there for over 20 minutes. Its run to Gatwick was seemingly aborted at Redhill. Edit - still there with door light on, and 1V54 will be coming up behind it from Redhill soon. I wonder if it has failed, hit something or if there has been a landslip after all the rain. The line is on a moderate embankment there. Given the door light's illumination it would seem not to be a simple signal stop for a failed crossing, etc.

Driver was held at the signal protecting the crossing, so went back to use the loo, and got locked out of the cab. 2O42 stopped to loan the driver a key.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2022 ==

It was already retrieved by another 769, I'm fairly sure.

It went home under its own steam after the WSP rack was replaced. It was the second WSP rack failure that week (another failed on a unit at Kennington on the way to Oxford), despite a lot of work going into testing them. Other than that, reliability has massively improved, to answer the question further up the thread.

 

[zwk500]

Driver was held at the signal protecting the crossing, so went back to use the loo, and got locked out of the cab. 2O42 stopped to loan the driver a key.

Amazing.

It went home under its own steam after the WSP rack was replaced. It was the second WSP rack failure that week (another failed on a unit at Kennington on the way to Oxford), despite a lot of work going into testing them. Other than that, reliability has massively improved, to answer the question further up the thread.

Thanks!

 

[Deepgreen]

Driver was held at the signal protecting the crossing, so went back to use the loo, and got locked out of the cab. 2O42 stopped to loan the driver a key.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2022 ==


It went home under its own steam after the WSP rack was replaced. It was the second WSP rack failure that week (another failed on a unit at Kennington on the way to Oxford), despite a lot of work going into testing them. Other than that, reliability has massively improved, to answer the question further up the thread.

Are you serious?! If so, many thanks, and how on earth can that be allowed to happen - surely it's not a Yale-style self-locking door (and what about external access to the cab from track level)?? Staggering. Thanks too, BTW, for the answer about general reliability, which was also my question.

 

[TurboMan]

Are you serious?! If so, many thanks, and how on earth can that be allowed to happen - surely it's not a Yale-style self-locking door (and what about external access to the cab from track level)?? Staggering.

If you forget to take your keys then you can't get back into the cab either from the saloon (needs a BR1 key) or outside the train (needs a carriage key). It's far from being the first time something like this has happened, and it won't be the last. Worth bearing in mind that this was a Colas driver - given that an individual Colas driver won't necessarily work a 769 on a regular basis, oversights like this can and do happen, it's simple human error.

 

[Deepgreen]

If you forget to take your keys then you can't get back into the cab either from the saloon (needs a BR1 key) or outside the train (needs a carriage key). It's far from being the first time something like this has happened, and it won't be the last. Worth bearing in mind that this was a Colas driver - given that an individual Colas driver won't necessarily work a 769 on a regular basis, oversights like this can and do happen, it's simple human error.

Wow. I would have thought that this human error opportunity should have been designed-out, so that at least one re-entry option was available (butterfly handle, etc.). If another train had not been passing the delay could have been huge (and if it had been on a busy, third-rail route, for example). Does the internal cab door close and lock automatically then? The 165s need to be specifically locked, I think, as I have seen them left hanging open many a time when changing ends. Thanks for the information - and all from a glance out of my window to see the stopped unit!

 

[Towers]

Wow. I would have thought that this human error opportunity should have been designed-out, so that at least one re-entry option was available (butterfly handle, etc.). If another train had not been passing the delay could have been huge (and if it had been on a busy, third-rail route, for example). Does the internal cab door close and lock automatically then? The 165s need to be specifically locked, I think, as I have seen them left hanging open many a time when changing ends. Thanks for the information - and all from a glance out of my window to see the stopped unit!

Nearly all cab-to-saloon doors will lock automatically, on old stuff and new. The idea of requiring a carriage key for external cab access is arguably an improvement over anyone who fancies it being able to just operate a handle and get in (and crew routinely doing so in full public view). It's basic traincrew stuff to always have a spare key, but perhaps a test run is a wee bit more relaxed than most other situations! Presumably the driver was on board alone.

 

[TurboMan]

Wow. I would have thought that this human error opportunity should have been designed-out, so that at least one re-entry option was available (butterfly handle, etc.). If another train had not been passing the delay could have been huge (and if it had been on a busy, third-rail route, for example). Does the internal cab door close and lock automatically then? The 165s need to be specifically locked, I think, as I have seen them left hanging open many a time when changing ends. Thanks for the information - and all from a glance out of my window to see the stopped unit!

On a 16x, you can lock yourself out of the cab from the saloon if the door closes behind you, but there's the option of operating an egress to exit the saloon to access the cab from the outside using the butterfly. 769s have a carriage key operated lock externally, rather than a butterfly so that's why the driver was stuck in this case and couldn't do the same.

While this might seem a bit daft, it's certainly possible to do the same on an 80x, as the internal and external cab doors both require a Kaba key, so if the door into the saloon closes behind you, you're stuck unless there's a train manager with a Kaba key to let you back in.

Cab security and preventing unauthorised access is a hot topic, hence the need for a key of some sort on most stock.

 

[Bikeman78]

Cab security and preventing unauthorised access is a hot topic, hence the need for a key of some sort on most stock.

Meanwhile, in Belgium, they still have EMUs where the cab is unlocked whilst the driver is in there. Plenty of drivers leave the door wide open. I've had plenty of forward views from the front seat.

 

[Recessio]

Driver was held at the signal protecting the crossing, so went back to use the loo, and got locked out of the cab. 2O42 stopped to loan the driver a key.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2022 ==


It went home under its own steam after the WSP rack was replaced. It was the second WSP rack failure that week (another failed on a unit at Kennington on the way to Oxford), despite a lot of work going into testing them. Other than that, reliability has massively improved, to answer the question further up the thread.

The carriage key lock on a 769 cab door must be pretty strong then, if the driver couldn't just bodge it open - I've used the end of my Chubb house key to operate the carriage key lock on a 165 hopper window before!

Locking yourself out the cab must be a pretty big biscuit/cake penalty in the mess room the next morning eh?

Glad to hear the reliability is improving, even if I am still amazed how much trouble there has been retrofitting diesel systems onto a proven EMU.

Does WSP mean Wheel Slip Protection here?

 

[TurboMan]

The carriage key lock on a 769 cab door must be pretty strong then, if the driver couldn't just bodge it open - I've used the end of my Chubb house key to operate the carriage key lock on a 165 hopper window before!

Does WSP mean Wheel Slip Protection here?

The lock on the cab isn't just a sprung latch like a hopper window, it operates a Bowden cable which then operates the opening mechanism. I don't think a house key would do it, even if the driver had one with him.

WSP = wheelslip protection, yes. As well as wheelslide protection under braking on all the 769 vehicles, the MSO vehicle has wheeslip protection when taking power to avoid the wheels spinning and damaging the railhead. If the WSP rack fails you lose traction power to prevent the railhead being damaged.

 

[Recessio]

The lock on the cab isn't just a sprung latch like a hopper window, it operates a Bowden cable which then operates the opening mechanism. I don't think a house key would do it, even if the driver had one with him.

WSP = wheelslip protection, yes. As well as wheelslide protection under braking on all the 769 vehicles, the MSO vehicle has wheeslip protection when taking power to avoid the wheels spinning and damaging the railhead. If the WSP rack fails you lose traction power to prevent the railhead being damaged.

Thank you for the explanations, appreciate it.

 

[fandroid]

Saw one on the Bicester side of Oxford station this morning. Is it just stored there?
. That's a long way from any electricity!

 

[Bjdaz76]

Has 5v10 failed again it appears to he in reigate siding again

 

[zwk500]

Has 5v10 failed again it appears to he in reigate siding again

Is this not just the berth never having been cleared out from the pervious failure?

 

[JackOnTheMove]

Whilst there are other threads about the 769, GWR use of them tends to get lost amongst the ‘Northern’ discussion. There is also a GWR 769 thread in the ‘speculative discussion’ part of the Forum but seeing as they are happening, I thought I would start a dedicated thread here in the Traction & Rolling Stock forum.

To start off with, the first Class 319 (319449) for staff training / familiarisation should arrive at Reading TCD, by road move, over the next two days.

There should be another 3x 319 arriving at some stage! No news however as to when we’ll see the first 769!

i thought that all the 769's were going to either TFW down in south wales or Northern

 

[JN114]

i thought that all the 769's were going to either TFW down in south wales or Northern

Nope, GWR are due to be getting 19 of them - all of which have been completed and are currently either stored or undergoing minor tweaks to enable their introduction into service once driver training happens.

Plenty of detail to read about in the 4 years of posts since the one you quoted.

 

[JackOnTheMove]

ah ok, due to being from the north west I only know what goes on with the companies that operate lines near me

 

[Speed43125]

Saw one on the Bicester side of Oxford station this morning. Is it just stored there?
. That's a long way from any electricity!

There's always at least a handful stored at Oxford Down Sidings just north of the station.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

i thought that all the 769's were going to either TFW down in south wales or Northern

TfW are getting rid of theirs soon when the new stock enters service.

 

[Bob Price]

i thought that all the 769's were going to either TFW down in south wales or Northern

TfW are doing their best to get rid of theirs. They don't climb hills very well and the gradient out of Penarth is a bit of a killer. Crew training on 231's on the Rhymney line is happening as we speak.

 

[Wyrleybart]

ah ok, due to being from the north west I only know what goes on with the companies that operate lines near me

The three fleets of 769s subtly different. The TfW batch of eight (should be nine) are purely DEMUs, don't have pantographs and weren't delivered with the electrical collection devices operational.

The Northern 769s operate from 25kV OLE and their MAN diesels.

The GWR 769s should collect 750V DC via shoes, and 25kV from the OLE where obtainable, as well as their diesels.

This means that a lot of work would need to be done to the Northern and TfW fleets to use them from Reading including cabs, air cooling and connectional equipment, probably ASDO and making the DC gear operational - including relocating the shoe beams to the inner bogies - per the 769/9s.

AIUI the TfW fleet are planned to stand down in May 2023 when the Stadlers and CAFs replace them, but have no idea if Northern have a stand down plan for their 769s in the coming years. If so, I presume it would return to straight diesels

 

[FenMan]

The three fleets of 769s subtly different. The TfW batch of eight (should be nine) are purely DEMUs, don't have pantographs and weren't delivered with the electrical collection devices operational.

The Northern 769s operate from 25kV OLE and their MAN diesels.

The GWR 769s should collect 750V DC via shoes, and 25kV from the OLE where obtainable, as well as their diesels.

This means that a lot of work would need to be done to the Northern and TfW fleets to use them from Reading including cabs, air cooling and connectional equipment, probably ASDO and making the DC gear operational - including relocating the shoe beams to the inner bogies - per the 769/9s.

AIUI the TfW fleet are planned to stand down in May 2023 when the Stadlers and CAFs replace them, but have no idea if Northern have a stand down plan for their 769s in the coming years. If so, I presume it would return to straight diesels

I think I've guessed the GWR stand-down plan.

3tph between Reading and Gatwick is now a mirage, while expansion plans further west are stalled (at best). Meanwhile, the local bit of ASLEF has been diligent in pointing out that the idea of asking drivers to return to 90s working conditions isn't a great sell and have been holding their ground.

If I see a 769 in passenger service at my local North Downs Line station I won't eat my hat, but I would be very, very surprised.

The key question for the North Down Line is, what comes next? The 165s will die eventually.

More likely, as 165s approach the end of their natural life in a few years time, panic will ensue, but only after the DfT, under pressure from the Treasury, will have royally cocked up what to do, yet again.