Back to square one. RMT - RDG talks end.

[class 9]

Train companies cancel negotiations and make no offer in national rail dispute

The Rail Delivery Group, which represents the Train Operating Companies (TOCs), has today without any credible explanation refused to make their promised written proposals in the six-month dispute over jobs, terms and conditions and pay.

www.rmt.org.uk

The Rail Delivery Group, which represents the Train Operating Companies (TOCs), has today without any credible explanation refused to make their promised written proposals in the six-month dispute over jobs, terms and conditions and pay.


Similarly, Network Rail has also refused to make any proposals promised at the conclusion of intensive talks last week. RMT suspended strike action on the basis that they would make new proposals by November 17 and it has failed to table anything new.

This will mean that despite having shown good faith in attending a fortnight of discussions with both halves of the industry, the union has no new proposals to consider or put to its members.

RMT’s National Executive Committee will meet tomorrow morning (Tuesday 22nd November 2022) to consider the matter and it is highly likely that further phases of industrial action will be set down....

 

[Russel]

Oh, fantastic.

 

[newtownmgr]

No surprise there then. Think this might backfire badly on the RDG & Government

 

[class 9]

Oh, fantastic.

My thoughts as well, the fact that latest meeting was postponed with an hours notice, to me points to the DfT refusing to alter their position, all whilst hiding behind the TOCs as they have done throughout this dispute.

 

[dk1]

I would not be surprised if the backlash leads to Christmas chaos across the network now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would not be surprised if the backlash leads to Christmas chaos across the network now.

I think strikes on 23-24 Dec are guaranteed now, plus probably 31 Dec-1 Jan. If travelling and not owning a car, now would be the time to book coach travel.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Perhaps the RDG should go and whistle and allow the TOCs to sort out their individual agreements.

 

[zwk500]

Perhaps the RDG should go and whistle and allow the TOCs to sort out their individual agreements.

TOC's can't move until the paymaster says so...

 

[dk1]

I think strikes on 23-24 Dec are guaranteed now, plus probably 31 Dec-1 Jan. If travelling and not owning a car, now would be the time to book coach travel.

Absolutely. Best to expect the worst now.

 

[Ashley Hill]

TOC's can't move until the paymaster says so...

Well perhaps the paymaster should go and whistle then. It’s no fun for any of us,let the TOCs negotiate so we can get back to work.

 

[JonathanH]

No surprise there then. Think this might backfire badly on the RDG & Government

It won't backfire at all. There will be more strikes.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

I had hoped the new govt. would push through an agreement. Looks like the opposite happened.

 

[JonathanH]

I had hoped the new govt. would push through an agreement. Looks like the opposite happened.

What agreement? The government aren't particularly fussed. Every strike taken represents money they don't need to pay to the striking workers.

 

[Smidster]

Shocked I tell you...shocked.

Or exactly as I said would happen the RMT being the RMT.

Awful stuff - Winter is already bad enough without this.

 

[LowLevel]

Shocked I tell you...shocked.

Or exactly as I said would happen the RMT being the RMT.

Awful stuff - Winter is already bad enough without this.

More accurately, the Government being the Government. The RMT didn't cancel the next round of talks.

 

[Bungle73]

How much longer are the public expected to put up with this? It's completely unacceptable that this has gone on for so long, with talk of it going on until at least next spring, and god knows know long after that. It seems that people where the money actually comes from and who depend on the railway to get about are being completely forgotten about by both sides. I've had sympathy for the unions' position, but my patience is wearing thin.

 

[dk1]

What agreement? The government aren't particularly fussed. Every strike taken represents money they don't need to pay to the striking workers.

But they have to pay everyone else. At my depot alone if the RMT strike around 100 drivers are on full pay with little or nothing to do & very limited revenue coming in.

 

[footprints]

Response from the Rail Delivery Group:

“We have made real progress over the last fortnight and for the first time in months we can see the outline of a credible deal.

“Any strikes will only cause further misery for customers and struggling businesses in the run up to Christmas and beyond. The RMT leadership should now remove any uncertainty around Christmas and commit to protecting everyone’s first festive period post-Covid from any strike disruption.

“The alternative is a bleak winter of industrial action, making it harder to find workable solutions to bring about the much-needed changes that will help secure the railway’s future and unlock the funds for a pay offer.

“Revenues are still 20% down on 2019 level and this dispute has brought the industry’s post-pandemic recovery to a shuddering halt – with strikes since June resulting in lost revenue of £250-£300 million.

“We urge the RMT leadership to stay at the negotiating table so we can build on that progress and end a dispute that is harming passengers and businesses, the industry, and their members.”

Comment from TSSA:

“We have a written invitation to talks with both Network Rail and train operators this week to progress the issues discussed last week.

“TSSA will be attending talks this week in good faith and attempt to secure the best possible negotiated settlement to this dispute.”

Source: Lancashire Telegraph (https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.....rail-strikes-highly-likely-rail-union-warns/)

 

[Peterthegreat]

But they have to pay everyone else. At my depot alone if the RMT strike around 100 drivers are on full pay with little or nothing to do & very limited revenue coming in.

Absolutely. And other costs accrue. Rolling stock leasing costs don't stop on strike days. Nor is the effect on the wider economy taken into account.

 

[zwk500]

Well perhaps the paymaster should go and whistle then. It’s no fun for any of us,let the TOCs negotiate so we can get back to work.

The DfT as proxy for the treasury have been outside whistling for far too effing long! Time for them to get in the room and be honest instead of sending in cannon fodder.

 

[Thirteen]

The longer this dispute go on, the more likely that the minimum services law will be pushed through Parliament. There does seem to be some progress elsewhere as ASLEF cancelled their strike on the 26th with London Overground.

 

[Smidster]

How much longer are the public expected to put up with this? It's completely unacceptable that this has gone on for so long, with talk of it going on until at least next spring, and god knows know long after that. It seems that people where the money actually comes from and who depend on the railway to get about are being completely forgotten about by both sides. I've had sympathy for the unions' position, but my patience is wearing thin.

I would write off at least the next year.

What the RMT are demanding is not credible and they won't budge from that position - especially now they have the go ahead for 6 more months of action.

Only thing for certain is that the public get screwed...fully expect strikes every week now until Christmas which will also do massive damage to the wider economy at a time when it is already on life support.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'm a little confused by the RDG statement above regarding the outline of a credible deal and real progress. If this is the case, then why is it that it is alleged, and I do stress alleged, according to what RMT members have been advised, that they cancelled the scheduled meeting regarding it? Furthermore, if the progress is as real and genuine as is stated, why would the RMT not want to be at the table? Usually they would say something about said progress and more talks to go ahead. There's something missing here...

 

[KM1991]

What agreement? The government aren't particularly fussed. Every strike taken represents money they don't need to pay to the striking workers.

£250-£300 million in lost revenue says otherwise.

 

[JonathanH]

I would write off at least the next year.

Yes, I agree

What the RMT are demanding is not credible and they won't budge from that position - especially now they have the go ahead for 6 more months of action.

What the government is demanding isn't acceptable to the unions (not just the RMT) either, and they won't budge from their position. They are essentially relying on the resolve of the unions and their members to break. The government has the upper hand in that they hold the "do nothing" position. The unions can only hold strikes.

£250-£300 million in lost revenue says otherwise.

Just means that the cuts in services will be more severe. There has been comment to that effect on this forum.

 

[KM1991]

I would write off at least the next year.

What the RMT are demanding is not credible and they won't budge from that position - especially now they have the go ahead for 6 more months of action.

Only thing for certain is that the public get screwed...fully expect strikes every week now until Christmas which will also do massive damage to the wider economy at a time when it is already on life support.

10% spread out between this pay year and next is not credible? Behave. People have had enough of being mugged off.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Nov 2022 ==

Yes, I agree

What the government is demanding isn't acceptable to the unions (not just the RMT) either, and they won't budge from their position. They are essentially relying on the resolve of the unions and their members to break. The government has the upper hand in that they hold the "do nothing" position. The unions can only hold strikes.

Just means that the cuts in services will be more severe. There has been comment to that effect on this forum.

There will be no cuts in services. Trains are as busy as ever. It’s a load of nonsense, anyone that works on the railway will confirm as such. Complete rubbish.

 

[Tomp94]

Oh damn. I have a week of travel around the south and London planned for 3-10th December. Bound to be strikes that week!

When can strikes be called? I know its two weeks notice, but is it down to the minute? So could a strike be announced for 6th December, or do they have to give two full weeks, meaning the earliest a strike could be called is the 7th?

 

[CFRAIL]

Not to mention the money the treasury/DFT pay to TOCs on strike days. Very real prospect of disruption throughout December, particularly Christmas to New year

 

[STINT47]

How much longer are the public expected to put up with this?

It will probably continue till the government's Transport Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill passes into law. After that union action can still be taken but the public will still be ae to make essential journeys all be it with reduced frequencies.

 

[BJames]

Argh this is a real shame. Plus, on a selfish level, I was intending to travel on Christmas Eve back home - I'm not expecting them to be able to give me the time off. Will attempt to bag a lift instead down from the Midlands.