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Saturdays on the railway in general

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317 forever

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The demand is enormous on Saturday and the railway can't deliver even close to a 2019 service.
What I am about to suggest will of course not be feasible on every line. However, on the whole, where Saturday demand in 2022 is not greater than Mon-Fri peak demand in 2019, there should be enough rolling stock to cover the demand. In some cases double units could become the rule rather than the exception.
 
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trainophile

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Yes what’s that all about? I don’t like talking on a mobile phone on a train in a civilised manner let alone on loudspeaker. Very strange behaviour indeed.
Too lazy to hold it to their ear. Just like those who are too bone idle to keep their feet on the floor.
 

Kite159

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The difference is that the above can be told to pack it in. Do that with a screaming kid and it’ll be all over social media and the local papers as a nasty train driver story!

They are the sort who will go "OK", turn it down, but as soon as the driver goes back into the cab the 'noise' [which is loosely defined as music] will go back up.

Similar to the sort of people who will quickly remove feet from seat if they see the guard approaching but they spring back up when the coast is clear.

-----

Had 2 ultra-busy trains today, a 2 coach 170 from Spalding to Peterborough around 11:30, don't think you could have fitted any more on that unit [I bet some EMR guards prefer a 170 over a sprinter due to having their own cab door]. Then a 3 coach 159 on a Salisbury train, full & standing down the aisle on departure from Waterloo and it only got worse at Clapham when the rugby goers joined. And unusually it remained busy right to the end [not sure if it was passengers transferring to the last train to Westbury from Salisbury]
 

Edsmith

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Yes what’s that all about? I don’t like talking on a mobile phone on a train in a civilised manner let alone on loudspeaker. Very strange behaviour indeed.
My wife mentioned being on a Thameslink train and the driver opened the cab door to tell a bloke shouting into his phone that he can hear every word of it in the cab and pointed out that there are other passengers within earshot, he did apologise and ended the call blaming it on "a row with the missus"!
 

3rd rail land

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My wife mentioned being on a Thameslink train and the driver opened the cab door to tell a bloke shouting into his phone that he can hear every word of it in the cab and pointed out that there are other passengers within earshot, he did apologise and ended the call blaming it on "a row with the missus"!
He probably found it distracting and if he politely informed the passenger that everyone could hear his rather loud conversation it seems a very reasonable thing to do. I am sure other passengers were pleased when the driver got the passenger to end his loud phone conversation.
 

43066

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The difference is that the above can be told to pack it in. Do that with a screaming kid and it’ll be all over social media and the local papers as a nasty train driver story!

The driver could quite legitimately politely ask them to move if (in that driver’s sole opinion) the crying was distracting. Any refusal could be met with “I’m afraid the train will remain at a stand until you move”, or similar, which will always have the desired effect.

That approach is certainly a lot more awkward with a crying baby than some idiot yakking away on a speakerphone, however!
 

SCDR_WMR

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The driver could quite legitimately politely ask them to move if (in that driver’s sole opinion) the crying was distracting. Any refusal could be met with “I’m afraid the train will remain at a stand until you move”, or similar, which will always have the desired effect.

That approach is certainly a lot more awkward with a crying baby than some idiot yakking away on a speakerphone, however!
I had many calls from drivers asking to move or talk to the people directly next to cab doors. Usually it's due to smoking or loud music, but I'd be more than happy to deal with anything that could distract a driver. Some cab doors are brilliant as soundproofing but most seem totally inadequate
 

43066

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I had many calls from drivers asking to move or talk to the people directly next to cab doors. Usually it's due to smoking or loud music, but I'd be more than happy to deal with anything that could distract a driver. Some cab doors are brilliant as soundproofing but most seem totally inadequate

Quite rightly. Albeit, if possible, I’d far rather try and deal with it myself at a station rather than asking the guard to assist.

Cab doors do vary. A colleague even had to put up with vomit flowing into the cab under the door a few years back. It was his train home (and the last train of the night) so no real option but to continue o_O.
 

Sprinter107

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Quite rightly. Albeit, if possible, I’d far rather try and deal with it myself at a station rather than asking the guard to assist.

Cab doors do vary. A colleague even had to put up with vomit flowing into the cab under the door a few years back. It was his train home (and the last train of the night) so no real option but to continue o_O.
Like yourself, I try and deal with it myself rather than getting the guard involved. Some of our trains can be non gangwayed, so there's no chance of the guard getting to the front anyway.
 

nw1

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It's not just the railways that struggle on a Saturday..

I work for a bus company and we get more cancellations on a Saturday due to not having enough drivers. No one wants to do overtime on a Saturday due to the people they have to deal with and a desire to enjoy the weekend away from work. If you add in that overtime is freely available on other days in the week then we get few takers.

More recruitment is the answer but there isn't a short term fix for public transport on Saturday's.

I've noticed persistently that my local bus route is very unreliable on Saturdays so that would figure - somewhat worse than the week, though evening rush hour is also pretty bad. (One bus at around 6pm which I normally get on Wednesdays has been cancelled two weeks on the trot, including last Wed when it was very wet - cue long walk home in the rain).

The Sat problems are sometimes cancellations, but sometimes just severe delays and attendant "bunching". The latter occurs on days without excessive traffic (where I am) but maybe other parts of the route get big traffic problems every week.
 

gazzaa2

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For all the talk of Saturday travel it can be overlooked just how bad Sundays are now. The crowding is worse if anything.
 

43066

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For all the talk of Saturday travel it can be overlooked just how bad Sundays are now. The crowding is worse if anything.

100%. By far the worst day of the week for the railway, whether travelling as a passenger, or working on it.

EDIT: apologies I misread there! I’d say Saturday still shades Sunday for general awfulness. Far more people want to travel, for one thing.
 
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bramling

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The driver could quite legitimately politely ask them to move if (in that driver’s sole opinion) the crying was distracting. Any refusal could be met with “I’m afraid the train will remain at a stand until you move”, or similar, which will always have the desired effect.

Oh I’d still deal with it, and in exactly the above way. Just be prepared for some fall-back.

At my place a driver dealt with a screaming kid by way of one or more PA announcements, which then caused things to kick off upon arrival at the terminus.


That approach is certainly a lot more awkward with a crying baby than some idiot yakking away on a speakerphone, however!

My favourite was during Covid when there was a fair amount of travelling around in unused cabs. Dealt with a hell of a lot of people up to no good in various ways (especially smoking), the look of shock when the door opened was priceless.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

100%. By far the worst day of the week for the railway, whether travelling as a passenger, or working on it.

From my perspective both days are just as bad. I gave up on actually trying to *use* the railway at weekends long ago. Being totally honest I’d be happy for it to only run Mondays to Fridays, if it’s going to be of zero practical use to me for the other two days.

I would also place a wager that this may be acting as a drag on weekday use too. For someone who works shifts and buys a season of whatever description, if they start finding they have to use the car at weekends despite having paid for the train, there will come a point where it becomes more cost-effective to use the car for the whole lot, especially if you’re something like a Thameslink user where the service is up the wall half the time on weekdays as well.
 
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STINT47

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Reading about loud phone calls and children behind cabs makes me wonder if the first third zbd last third of a train should be designated as a quiet zone?

This would reduce ghd chances of the driver at the front and guard being distracted whilst providing a nice traveling environment Fortrose who like to relax by train.
 

43066

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if the first third zbd last third of a train should be designated as a quiet zone?

On our IC stock We have the non first class end, immediately behind the cab, dedicated to cycles/crumple zone, so only the driver allowed in (gee thanks, I guess that’s why we get paid the “big” bucks :rolleyes:).

The other end is first class and the galley behind the cab (this is also part of the crumple zone, but nobody seems to have noticed). The customer hosts generally make more racket on their phones/wittering on about ‘Selebrity get me outa here etc. than passengers ever do.

But, if I went back and told them to shut up, they’d refuse to make me tea and/or spit into it, so I have to suck it up.

On the railway, one learns to choose one’s battles carefully ;).
 

trainophile

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100%. By far the worst day of the week for the railway, whether travelling as a passenger, or working on it.

EDIT: apologies I misread there! I’d say Saturday still shades Sunday for general awfulness. Far more people want to travel, for one thing.

But there tend to be far fewer trains running on Sundays, either timetabled or cancelled, so those that there are can be rammed. Especially the sort that take long distance weekly commuters from the north to London. I never travel on a Sunday, will consider Saturday at a pinch but only when I'm boarding at the start of the route, and have checked the football fixtures before booking!
 

Class 170101

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I’m wondering if this work has anything to do with the embankment issues between Ingatestone & Shenfield and the ESRs on all four lines between Brentwood & Harold Wood. These have been deteriorating rapidly since the end of the dry summer & therefore need attention as a matter of urgency.

Don't know when this possession went into the plan. It's not that many years ago the high output ballast cleaner treated a lot of the area, but the geology and recent weather hasn't helped.

Hopefully NR have done some remedial work if the possession wasn't originally designed for it, but getting all the resources together, against the background of industrial dis-harmony, isn't easy.

I was told @dk1 @306024 it was Overhead line related stuff.

One of the issues is that engineering planning has got so much in advance, sometimes we hear 12 months, that it gets ahead of events being planned which the railway customers will want to travel to.

Saturday 12 November ? West Ham at home (always a very significant Saturday travel peak for east London), start of Christmas shopping, where Stratford has in the area significantly taken over from car-oriented Lakeside, Lord Mayor's Show, first non-raining weekend for a while - it was a really busy travel day all round, roads as well.
NR should have a list of these events but unfortunately this has become somewhat irrelevant of late with NR just pushing blocks through to get work done regardless. Can't plan for a non rainy weekend unfortunately.

It is more than 12 months,
This particular possession wasn't a 12 month notice one, much less than that.

2024 is already out there and TOC/FOCs are responding to version 1 of the proposed plan now.
Version 1 and a work of fiction frankly with changes all the way upto CPPP stage.
 

MCSHF007

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The other end is first class and the galley behind the cab (this is also part of the crumple zone, but nobody seems to have noticed). The customer hosts generally make more racket on their phones/wittering on about ‘Selebrity get me outa here etc. than passengers ever do.

But, if I went back and told them to shut up, they’d refuse to make me tea and/or spit into it, so I have to suck it up.

On the railway, one learns to choose one’s battles carefully ;).

Indeed. By far the worst thing about travelling First Class on 222s
 

gazzaa2

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But there tend to be far fewer trains running on Sundays, either timetabled or cancelled, so those that there are can be rammed. Especially the sort that take long distance weekly commuters from the north to London. I never travel on a Sunday, will consider Saturday at a pinch but only when I'm boarding at the start of the route, and have checked the football fixtures before booking!

Yeah, it's the sheer numbers on the services that do run, particularly longer distance with people coming back from weekends away etc. I wouldn't travel by rail on a Sunday, particularly longer distance, unless it was an emergency.

I find with Saturdays it's a case of being aware of sporting fixtures/other events etc (plus avoiding mid-morning peaks where possible and not returning too late in the day). With Sundays it's do not travel.
 

Alfie1014

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Timetable pdf files are now online for the following TOCs on their respective websites:

Avanti West Coast
CrossCountry
Gatwick Express
Grand Central
Great Northern
GWR
LNER
London Northwestern Railway
Northern
Southern
Southeastern
South Western Railway
TfL Elizabeth Line
West Midlands Railway

I was told @dk1 @306024 it was Overhead line related stuff.


NR should have a list of these events but unfortunately this has become somewhat irrelevant of late with NR just pushing blocks through to get work done regardless. Can't plan for a non rainy weekend unfortunately.


This particular possession wasn't a 12 month notice one, much less than that.


Version 1 and a work of fiction frankly with changes all the way upto CPPP stage.
I wonder if it is auto-transformer work between London and Shenfield?
 

Horizon22

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What I am about to suggest will of course not be feasible on every line. However, on the whole, where Saturday demand in 2022 is not greater than Mon-Fri peak demand in 2019, there should be enough rolling stock to cover the demand. In some cases double units could become the rule rather than the exception.

The issue will be of course maintenance schedules have built in long-existing patterns to do more at the weekend. This would need to be turned on its head, which is possible but would take some time to change.
 

Peregrine 4903

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I had an amazing day out on the Brighton Main Line yesterday. Trains running on time with Southeastern diversions and well behaved passengers. No cancellations as well.
 

bramling

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On our IC stock We have the non first class end, immediately behind the cab, dedicated to cycles/crumple zone, so only the driver allowed in (gee thanks, I guess that’s why we get paid the “big” bucks :rolleyes:).

The other end is first class and the galley behind the cab (this is also part of the crumple zone, but nobody seems to have noticed). The customer hosts generally make more racket on their phones/wittering on about ‘Selebrity get me outa here etc. than passengers ever do.

But, if I went back and told them to shut up, they’d refuse to make me tea and/or spit into it, so I have to suck it up.

On the railway, one learns to choose one’s battles carefully ;).

The solution to that one is to drink bottled water instead! Contrary to popular belief, not quite everyone runs on tea, and not doing so conveniently allows avoidance of all sorts of etiquette issues in various settings. ;)
 
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TUC

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The driver could quite legitimately politely ask them to move if (in that driver’s sole opinion) the crying was distracting. Any refusal could be met with “I’m afraid the train will remain at a stand until you move”, or similar, which will always have the desired effect.

That approach is certainly a lot more awkward with a crying baby than some idiot yakking away on a speakerphone, however!
Crying babies are just part of life. What are parents meant to do?
 

robrymond

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Two experiences for me on a Saturday; a very pleasant ride on LNW from Crewe to Wolverhampton which was virtually empty at lunchtime. Ticket checks were conducted after Penkridge and its the first time I've seen people buying them on a LNW train.

Then on my return at 22:55 from Wolverhampton, a two coach TFW train turns up (not sure if this is regular) and it was heaving. Full platform and a full train. Thankfully, most people left at Telford or Shrewsbury, leaving a very peaceful second leg.
 

43066

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Crying babies are just part of life. What are parents meant to do?

Simply move if asked to do so, unless you have a better suggestion?

That’s infinitely preferable to being on a train that SPADs or crashes into buffer stops because the driver has become distracted!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I had an amazing day out on the Brighton Main Line yesterday. Trains running on time with Southeastern diversions and well behaved passengers. No cancellations as well.

Great to see someone posting about a positive experience for once!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The solution to that one is to drink bottled water instead! Contrary to popular belief, not quite everyone runs on tea, and not doing so conveniently allows avoidance of all sorts of etiquette issues in various settings. ;)

Unfortunately bottled water doesn’t contain caffeine ;).
 

gazzaa2

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Two experiences for me on a Saturday; a very pleasant ride on LNW from Crewe to Wolverhampton which was virtually empty at lunchtime. Ticket checks were conducted after Penkridge and its the first time I've seen people buying them on a LNW train.

Then on my return at 22:55 from Wolverhampton, a two coach TFW train turns up (not sure if this is regular) and it was heaving. Full platform and a full train. Thankfully, most people left at Telford or Shrewsbury, leaving a very peaceful second leg.

Saturday passenger loadings tend to be very time dependent (sporting events aside). Mornings are packed out, then around midday/afternoon it quietens down and then evenings it goes mad again. A bit like rush hour during the traditional working week. Sundays just tend to be packed most of the day.

Crewe-Wolverhampton for example would be busy at lunchtime if Wolves were playing at home (particularly against a north west team with away fans as well). Also would have helped if that was an 8 car. The 09:07 from Liverpool (via Crewe) to Wolverhampton on Saturday was packed out because they only put 4 cars on and it's a busier travel time.

The World Cup being on helps ease things on Saturday in terms of football. The rugby final being on Saturday night in Manchester saw the Manchester bound services crush loaded through the morning and early afternoon, particularly with TPEX short forming services.
 
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Edsmith

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He probably found it distracting and if he politely informed the passenger that everyone could hear his rather loud conversation it seems a very reasonable thing to do. I am sure other passengers were pleased when the driver got the passenger to end his loud phone conversation.
Yes the driver was polite and the passenger responded accordingly with an apology, he maybe didn't realise that he was next to the drivers cab and passengers further down the train could hear him, the train was lightly loaded and nobody was in close proximity to him.

It would be nice if people who have to have arguments on the phone in public could do so by text message.
 
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