UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[trebor79]

I think one thing that will force people to replace an old electric car will be whether you can charge it at a public charger, in a reasonable time and for a reasonable cost. If your car only charges slowly, then you might find that there is both a fee for the electricity that you use, and the time that you use the charger. As charging technology changes, someone will need to test and certify that a model of car will be safe to charge with that type of charger. If the manufacturer of your car has gone bust, or no longer supports the model that you own, you might find that your car is no longer supported.

You might be able to update your car to use a newer charger, but this might only be possible for cars were sold in enough numbers to make it economic to develop the upgrade.

You will be able to charge old electric cars at home for a long time, so some people might keep them for a long time as local runabouts.

Sorry but this is all nonsense. The CCS standard means the car communicates with the charger using a standard protocol to tell it what voltage and current it can accept.
That's why you can charge a 400v car that will only charge at 60kW on an 800v 350kW charger.
Manufacturers don't have to test and certify their cars with every model of charger. They implement the CCS standard and it is de facto compatible with any CCS charger.


The only cars that will struggle to find a charger in the future are those that use the Chademo connector, which is rapidly fading from use in the UK.

 

[jon0844]

I think one thing that will force people to replace an old electric car will be whether you can charge it at a public charger, in a reasonable time and for a reasonable cost. If your car only charges slowly, then you might find that there is both a fee for the electricity that you use, and the time that you use the charger. As charging technology changes, someone will need to test and certify that a model of car will be safe to charge with that type of charger. If the manufacturer of your car has gone bust, or no longer supports the model that you own, you might find that your car is no longer supported.

You might be able to update your car to use a newer charger, but this might only be possible for cars were sold in enough numbers to make it economic to develop the upgrade.

You will be able to charge old electric cars at home for a long time, so some people might keep them for a long time as local runabouts.

As said already, there are standards - just like USB Power Delivery for mobiles, laptops, tablets etc.

Sure, there can be proprietary standards in some industries - but you'll always fall back on the industry standard that gives the backward compatibility.

I do think there's going to be a new industry of aftermarket modifications, allowing people to upgrade the battery management systems and charging hardware in the vehicle (just as you're going to get specialists that can refurbish batteries so you don't need to replace the entire thing). If the car maker won't do it, plenty of other companies will (unless they fancy going out of business).

A lot of these are the jobs of tomorrow that young people today should be looking at getting in to, rather than training as mechanics to work on ICE vehicles. Of course, old engines, gearboxes and clutches aren't going to disappear overnight - but the smart money is on adapting to the need of tomorrow.

 

[paul1609]

Most people buy through lease or PCP, which take into account anticipated resale values and therefore the monthly values, although still more expensive than equivalent ICE, are much more aligned.

The real problem about adopting EVs now is availability, both of the vehicles and charging infrastructure (the latter of which is improving rapidly).

If you take in to account the whole car market is this true though? Ive not bought a new car in over 30 years. Generally buying a secondhand car 3 to 5 years old and then keeping it 7 to 10 years. This seems typical amongst my peers in a rural kent location, there are very few new cars in my village and those that are generally from schemes run by employers.
If I was to change to an EV Id probably change to a leasing deal whilst Id consider that its not even acertainty for the next vehicle change.

 

[jon0844]

I think that if I am going to buy another car outright again, I'd feel pretty safe with an EV as I'd expect it to be pretty trouble-free maintenance wise for a long, long time. If I'm doing around 5,000 miles then - frankly - the batteries are never going to die during my time of ownership.

The car will literally fall apart in other areas long before the battery fails. And sadly that will probably be one of the sensors for the active cruise control or lane assist, or one of the screens (which being the car industry will have a list price of £2k or something stupid) and so on.

In the future, more car makers will be charging subscriptions for services and you'll find that getting a screen from a scrapyard won't 'pair' with the phone.

Software updates will be long over, the 4G modem unusable as we're now on 7G and 4G spectrum is being refarmed, and Google/Apple long stopped letting you connect your phone to such an old car.

I do fear that if an EV can last a lot longer, car makers will have incentives to get you upgrading earlier than required - the whole planned obsolescence thing, that would probably require regulations to ensure support for longer than 10 years, as I think is the case now for parts.

 

[The Ham]

The payback time of an EV is about 8 years or 80000 miles.
Which is also the lifetime of the batteries....

There is also the CO2 produced by burning gas and coal to produce the electricity to fuel your EV (some renewables are used, but 50% is still fossil fuels)
.
To say they eco friendly is a complete and utter fallacy.

This is a very interesting read, comparing the total emissions of the electric C40 and petrol XC40

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/Market-Assets/INTL/Applications/DotCom/PDF/C40/Volvo-C40-Recharge-LCA-report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwienffr9Ln7AhXoRUEAHWtjBH8QFnoECCEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw31SHtTYO6Vws4KqgiZjvlL

Others have pointed out that this is wrong.

Whilst there's an element of EV's not being the greenest option, they are still fat greener than ICE vehicles.

The other thing to note over the grid mix, even if pollution was identical it would lead to far nicer cities if all the cars were EV's. However often power station use of fuels trends to be more efficient with the ability to have better filters installed. Ultimately Carbon Capture and Storage (if it's viable) could also more easily applied to power stations than cars.

Sort of true. There‘s plenty of studies out there that give a good indication. There also plenty of 7-8 year old Tesla Model S for sale with 100k+ miles on the clock, selling for £30k-£40k. If the batteries and / or range were no good they would not be going for that price!

Given the crazy prices of cars at present, the cost of a £7,000 battery to fully restore battery health could be seen as a good option. As the high cost of cars (due to supply issues) is also impacting the ability to get cars fixed, and so knowing that you may only have to change a few tyres and break pads for the next few years could be seen as a good insurance policy.

It's not really, at least not at current prices. I don't understand why people are buying old Leafs with a knackered battery for several thousand pounds.
That 50 miles in winter will become 25 and that's very marginal for any kind of practical use.

25 miles per day would be 5,000 per year for just your getting to and from work (assuming a 200 work day year), given that 25 miles had already taken into account the cold and other real world settings, then there'll be some who can charge at home and work for whom such a cat would still be fine (especially as a second car).

I think that if I am going to buy another car outright again, I'd feel pretty safe with an EV as I'd expect it to be pretty trouble-free maintenance wise for a long, long time. If I'm doing around 5,000 miles then - frankly - the batteries are never going to die during my time of ownership.

The car will literally fall apart in other areas long before the battery fails. And sadly that will probably be one of the sensors for the active cruise control or lane assist, or one of the screens (which being the car industry will have a list price of £2k or something stupid) and so on.

In the future, more car makers will be charging subscriptions for services and you'll find that getting a screen from a scrapyard won't 'pair' with the phone.

Software updates will be long over, the 4G modem unusable as we're now on 7G and 4G spectrum is being refarmed, and Google/Apple long stopped letting you connect your phone to such an old car.

I do fear that if an EV can last a lot longer, car makers will have incentives to get you upgrading earlier than required - the whole planned obsolescence thing, that would probably require regulations to ensure support for longer than 10 years, as I think is the case now for parts.

Even if you in built tech becomes out dated, there'll be companies who will offer upgrades to the latest.

During the 90's/2000's we didn't see thousands of cats being scrapped as they didn't have CD players, as companies offered the ability to replace these - even those which are built in and are odd shapes.

Yes it may not be cheap, but given that it should be fairly easy to create a wiring adaptor to allow a specialist tablet to be connected to the car, the tricky bit will be getting the tablet and car to share enough information to each other to provide all the required information. However there's a good chance that once the market is worth enough that someone will find it viable to do so.

 

[Bald Rick]

If you take in to account the whole car market is this true though? Ive not bought a new car in over 30 years. Generally buying a secondhand car 3 to 5 years old and then keeping it 7 to 10 years.

But for you to be able to buy a second hand car 3-5 years old, someone is buying new 3-5 years ago…

 

[Bletchleyite]

But for you to be able to buy a second hand car 3-5 years old, someone is buying new 3-5 years ago…

Indeed. That's why I am thinking one more petrol. I am happier that someone else pays the depreciation than me

 

[RailWonderer]

We still don't have the national grid capacity to charge up all these electric cars. With the government's tireless commitment to austerity and their lack of willingness to invest in the future, a sensible thing to do would be to get the 2030 ban axed in a few years time, or at least given a dispensation until the grid can handle it. Otherwise what you will have is electricity rationing. If we did have the capacity, wireless charging needs to be installed in parking spaces because a lot of people live in terraced houses with no driveways to install a charger.

 

[Mawkie]

We still don't have the national grid capacity to charge up all these electric cars.

Yawn. This myth has been debunked over and over again, even on these forums.

Can we finally accept that this is myth is dead in the water once and for all? Even the National Grid acknowledge there is no issue.

Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles | National Grid

www.nationalgrid.com

 

[paul1609]

But for you to be able to buy a second hand car 3-5 years old, someone is buying new 3-5 years ago…

Appreciate that but Im not buying an ICE car on credit because I don't want to/ dont think its good value rather than I cant afford to. Wheras with an EV I would have to buy it on credit/ leasing because I couldnt afford the capital sum. I wouldnt want to gamble on say a 5 year old EV because of the battery life issue, especially as for me the motorway range is an issue. I think the issues are much more complicated than some EV advocates realise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2022 ==

Yawn. This myth has been debunked over and over again, even on these forums.

Can we finally accept that this is myth is dead in the water once and for all? Even the National Grid acknowledge there is no issue.

Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles | National Grid

www.nationalgrid.com

I accept that there is no issue with the national grid but thats certainly not the case with the local grid where there simply isnt any where like enough capacity for every home to have a 7kw charger.
And the electrical grid as a whole wont have capacity (by a large factor) for both EVs and the current Gas Boilers to be switched to Air Heat Pumps.

 

[Mawkie]

I accept that there is no issue with the national grid but thats certainly not the case with the local grid where there simply isnt any where like enough capacity for every home to have a 7kw charger.

But you acknowledged in your previous post that not every home can have a charger installed - the millions of terraced homes, and the millions of flats, won't ever have individual charging points (and nor will they need them).

My next car will be electric, and I'll be happy to charge it once every 2 weeks at a local charging point, be that at a Tesco, on street charger, or even a 'Petrol Station', whilst I go shopping or eat out.

 

[paul1609]

Dont think it was me, but its not a case of every home being unable to have a charger its a case of a lot of homes being unable to have chargers even where they have off road parking. Thats because the diversity considerations when the local electrical distribution was specified didnt take in to account every house turning on a 7kw load at the beginning of the off peak period. A lot of the older electrical distribution networks assumed an average load of 5 Amps per household.
As it happens Im in the same boat as you, but the 3 hours parking at the Tesco 5 miles away isnt actually going to make that much of a dent in the prices increasingly being charged per kwh by the charging networks.

 

[Harpers Tate]

every home to have a 7kw charger

Of course there is. Every home (with room) can have 10 of them with no impact on the grid. It's how and when they are USED that is material. If you work on the basis that 100% of the outlets are in use 100% of the time (including when homes and industry are also making peak demands on the system) then, yes, it might very well break. But of course that's never going to be true. There is over-capacity in the grid overnight, every night. Controlled charging to use power at these times is already an informal reality (I do it - and get ridiculously low rates when I do). And with smart chargers alongside price advantages, these things can also be managed centrally. There is even a move, just beginning, towards "vehicle to load" schemes where your plugged-in and well charged EV actually feeds the local grid at peak times and then draws back from it at off peak times.

 

[Noddy]

We still don't have the national grid capacity to charge up all these electric cars. With the government's tireless commitment to austerity and their lack of willingness to invest in the future, a sensible thing to do would be to get the 2030 ban axed in a few years time, or at least given a dispensation until the grid can handle it. Otherwise what you will have is electricity rationing. If we did have the capacity, wireless charging needs to be installed in parking spaces because a lot of people live in terraced houses with no driveways to install a charger.

You do realise that despite what this government claims the UK is not ahead of the game and other countries are doing the same or are even ahead of us. Norway is planning to ban traditional ICEs in 2025.

More importantly the vast majority of car manufacturers have announced they will no longer be making ICEs. This means that even if the UK government decided to ‘axe’ the ban, that would simply result in virtually no new cars being available because the manufacturers simply aren’t making them.

 

[RailWonderer]

Yawn. This myth has been debunked over and over again, even on these forums.

Can we finally accept that this is myth is dead in the water once and for all? Even the National Grid acknowledge there is no issue.

Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles | National Grid

www.nationalgrid.com

Again, only speculation from the National Grid, they are only estimating the hike in demand and in local areas it will vary hugely.

More importantly the vast majority of car manufacturers have announced they will no longer be making ICEs. This means that even if the UK government decided to ‘axe’ the ban, that would simply result in virtually no new cars being available because the manufacturers simply aren’t making them.

I know they are a minority but US Ford, BMW and Porsche still will make ICE vehicles, albeit with less investment. They will just facelift existing versions of cars, and they will be slightly outdated but still available to buy new for those with little or no access to charging infrastructure. Other manufacturers could do the same.

 

[Mawkie]

Dont think it was me,

Appols, got confused with your multi quote post.

As it happens Im in the same boat as you, but the 3 hours parking at the Tesco 5 miles away isnt actually going to make that much of a dent in the prices increasingly being charged per kwh by the charging networks.

The latest 100 kW, 150 kW, and 350(!) kW chargers will do 20% to 80% in 15mins or less, albeit at quite a high cost. Stopping at the Shell garage on my way home is hardly an inconvenience - indeed, sometimes it can nearly that amount of time whilst I queue for the pump, wander around the shop, and queue to pay for my petrol.

 

[Noddy]

I know they are a minority but US Ford, BMW and Porsche still will make ICE vehicles, albeit with less investment. They will just facelift existing versions of cars, and they will be slightly outdated but still available to buy new for those with little or no access to charging infrastructure. Other manufacturers could do the same.

Ford (and General Motors) have already said they will stop making ICEs by 2035 (the actual UK ban date). US law has also banned new sales from 2035 (same as UK) and I believe banned all ICEs from 2050. I don’t think BMW or Porsche committed to anything yet but seeing as the EU is also banning ICEs from 2035 it’s unlikely they’ll be doing much after this date. Plus Porsche also own a huge stake in Rimac with their amazing EV technology. For anyone who thinks EVs are still boring check out this:

And this type of technology feeds down to mainstream cars.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I accept that there is no issue with the national grid but thats certainly not the case with the local grid where there simply isnt any where like enough capacity for every home to have a 7kw charger.

If charging at home overnight you don't need a 7kW charger. 13A would be fine, which is no different from plugging in a single electric heater overnight as many will. Like iPhones, cars will work out from your usage pattern that if you plug in at 2200 you aren't going to unplug until 0630 or whenever you go to work, because a slower charge means a better battery condition.

"But my mum or dad might be seriously ill at 3am 200 miles away"...you don't plan your entire life around situations that can occur a maximum of 2 times in your whole life and may occur 0 times. Take a taxi and put it on a credit card if you've not got the money if that happens. If a close family member is seriously ill you probably won't be in an emotionally fit state to drive anyway.

"But I never borrow money so have neither overdraft nor credit card"...you'll not get finance for an EV either, buy a used petrol car for cash and wait 5-10 years or so until buying a used EV that way is feasible.

And the electrical grid as a whole wont have capacity (by a large factor) for both EVs and the current Gas Boilers to be switched to Air Heat Pumps.

Who runs their heating at full pelt in the middle of the night, heating all the rooms they aren't sleeping in?

 

[AM9]

Again, only speculation from the National Grid, they are only estimating the hike in demand and in local areas it will vary hugely.

National Grid as Electricity System Operator (ESO) are in that article stating that there are no threats to continuing supplies either in generation capacity or in transmission capacity to the Distribution Network Operators (DNOs). For much of England the DNO is UK Power Networks whose role is to ensure local needs are met. I can't find any articles online, but they are the ones who provide connections to their part of the network for industrial, commercial and residential users, and there has not been any suggestion tha they cannot fulfil sufficient capacity to operate smart chargers in any area.

I know they are a minority but US Ford, BMW and Porsche still will make ICE vehicles, albeit with less investment. They will just facelift existing versions of cars, and they will be slightly outdated but still available to buy new for those with little or no access to charging infrastructure. Other manufacturers could do the same.

I believe that the progressive reduction in new ICvs before 2030, and the corresponding reduction in fuel demanded (bear in mind that annual mileage of vehicles is inversely proportional to their age) will result in a mutual decline in ICV mileage leading to less sales leading to shutting down production, rwequiring much less petrol/diesel, which will form a circle of decline, maybe almost a cliff edge. Clinging to the hope that increasingly old ICVs can be kept running when the majority of the UK vehicle population may be stfled when opportunities to refuel become inconveniently sparse, (ironically in the same way that charging points were rare when there wasn't a profitable market for them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2022 ==

Who runs their heating at full pelt in the middle of the night, heating all the rooms they aren't sleeping in?

A cannabis farmer?

 

[paul1609]

If charging at home overnight you don't need a 7kW charger. 13A would be fine, which is no different from plugging in a single electric heater overnight as many will. Like iPhones, cars will work out from your usage pattern that if you plug in at 2200 you aren't going to unplug until 0630

Who runs their heating at full pelt in the middle of the night, heating all the rooms they aren't sleeping in?

13 Amp charging is actually 6 to 10 Amp charging on most EVs depending on manufacturer to avoid stressing the 13 a socket and ringmain. I personally think most users will want to go for 7kw for their main car at least.
Anybody with electric storage heaters or water heaters run their heating on full electrical load (rather than output) during the off peak hours. Air source heat pumps run all night, they will run on high / maximum load for 3 to 4 hours before you get up to return the air temp to normal. Obviously depends on individual plant ambient air temperatures but they have to allow for the worst. I believe the concensus is that to transfer all transport and gas heating to the electrical grid would require something around 3x the current capacity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anybody with electric storage heaters or water heaters run their heating on full electrical load (rather than output) during the off peak hours.

No, they don't. It doesn't take all night to warm the bricks/tank up. Maybe an hour or two, then the thermostat just kicks in and keeps them at temperature.

ASHPs do not need to run all night, that is simply a fallacy.

 

[paul1609]

No, they don't. It doesn't take all night to warm the bricks/tank up. Maybe an hour or two, then the thermostat just kicks in and keeps them at temperature.

ASHPs do not need to run all night, that is simply a fallacy.

Sorry thats no longer the case most smart storage heaters maximise charge to be at full capacity at the end of the off peak period 7.30 GMT for economy 7 tarrifs in the southeast. Depending on the manufacturer a typical lounge heater is around 3.5 kwh and the charge rate is around 1.5 kwh.
ASHPs will generally be on 24/7 most people will set their heating to reduce during the night and to be back around 18 to. 21 c by 7 am. In those cases the ASHP will go to high load around 3 to 4 am in low ambient temps because they dont have the capacity of a gas boiler to recover the temp in an hour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry thats no longer the case most smart storage heaters maximise charge to be at full capacity at the end of the off peak period 7.30 GMT for economy 7 tarrifs in the southeast.

Then they won't be running at full capacity. It is one or the other.

Depending on the manufacturer a typical lounge heater is around 3.5 kwh

If the capacity is 3.5kWh and it charges at 1.5kW (just over 6A), it is charging for just over two hours, not all night.

ASHPs will generally be on 24/7 most people will set their heating to reduce during the night

That is contradictory. In most modern houses there is no need to heat at all overnight, the temperature doesn't drop that much.

and to be back around 18 to. 21 c by 7 am. In those cases the ASHP will go to high load around 3 to 4 am in low ambient temps because they dont have the capacity of a gas boiler to recover the temp in an hour.

From 4am to 7am isn't all night. You also aren't going to be maxing out the house's connection with an ASHP because the whole point of one is that you get more heat out than the power going in, else you might as well use resistive heating, which while costly can heat the air in a house up from say 15 to 19 degrees in an hour or so.

Plus you aren't going to have storage radiators AND an ASHP, what would that achieve?

 

[trebor79]

If charging at home overnight you don't need a 7kW charger. 13A would be fine, which is no different from plugging in a single electric heater overnight as many will.

Not really correct. Most of us get 4 or 5 hours of really cheap electricity and a 10A granny charge isn't going to add enough range.
That's why we all spend money putting in 7kW chargers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not really correct. Most of us get 4 or 5 hours of really cheap electricity and a 10A granny charge isn't going to add enough range.

Most cars do maybe twenty or thirty miles a day on weekdays. It's plenty to get you to a full charge for a weekend away.

Plus with more usage overnight it won't be "really cheap electricity" as it is now. The situation is likely to end up reversing - high demand overnight for charging EVs, lower demand during the day unless it's freezing cold as lighting and electronics use a fraction of what they used to.

Of course, it will be possible to balance that using a home battery of some kind. Potentially we will even see really fast chargers for homes for people who need that, which have their own battery and capacitor arrangement to build up a car's worth of charge over the day when their smart meter says it's cheap, then to belt it all into the car when it is needed.

But not everyone will need that. My personal car use would be fine with a "granny charger" as long as I plugged in every night. When I do eventually get one I'll get a fast charger if it is offered free or very cheaply, but if not I'll just get an external 13A socket.

 

[Domh245]

If charging at home overnight you don't need a 7kW charger. 13A would be fine, which is no different from plugging in a single electric heater overnight as many will. Like iPhones, cars will work out from your usage pattern that if you plug in at 2200 you aren't going to unplug until 0630 or whenever you go to work, because a slower charge means a better battery condition.

At 13A, you're charging at 3kW (not withstanding @paul1609's point about limiting that max current) - for a 2200 to 0630 charging period that'll give you 25.5 kWh - around 50% of a typical 'small' battery pack. There'll certainly be no need for the car to artificially limit how it is charging! It's definitely usable, but not ideal - especially if you're a higher mileage user.

National Grid as Electricity System Operator (ESO) are in that article stating that there are no threats to continuing supplies either in generation capacity or in transmission capacity to the Distribution Network Operators (DNOs). For much of England the DNO is UK Power Networks whose role is to ensure local needs are met. I can't find any articles online, but they are the ones who provide connections to their part of the network for industrial, commercial and residential users, and there has not been any suggestion tha they cannot fulfil sufficient capacity to operate smart chargers in any area.

I don't think we can really take no news as good news in this instance. Fully electrified heating and significant amounts of home EV charging could absolutely cause headaches at the most local levels of distribution if everything is switched on at the same time and on a local substation that is already quite highly loaded (there's a few references in the paper I linked above). It's not a hugely like occurrence but definitely not zero especially on a cold winter evening, hence an increasing focus on 'demand side response' being able to manage the operation of devices remotely to deliberately keep the 'diversity factor' where they need it (and self-generation & storage to an extent) to avoid expensive and disruptive alterations to local distribution networks.

 

[MotCO]

I am hoping to buy a new car within the next 12 months but I am still unsure whether to go for a petrol or EV vehicle, and I don’t have a leaning either one way or another. I don’t think hybrid will fit the bill since you are effectively carrying two engines around with you which doesn’t really make sense. My annual mileage is circa 18,000 per year, a mixture of short and long journeys. I'm not considering the carbon footprint - there are arguments both ways as to which is better, so I will park this aspect.

Petrol -
Pros:

• Cheaper purchase price

Cons:

• ICE cars are unlikely to be developed any further given their limited saleroom life
• The number of petrol stations is likely to reduce overtime, and petrol prices could increase due to higher distribution costs (fewer filling stations to share the overheads) and reduction in competition between filling stations.
• Residual values may reduce if there is less demand for ICE cars

EV -
Pros:

• Cheaper running and maintenance costs

Cons:

• Range anxiety – whether assumed or real
• Lack of recharging points – I regularly do journeys of 300 miles via motorways, and don’t want to find charging points occupied or out of use, particularly at peak times like at summer holiday weekends or Bank Holidays.
• Lack of charging points when away from home, such as at holiday homes
• Why buy now when prices may reduce in the future or range could increase?
• Purchase cost under PCP could increase due to interest rate increases

I'm sure I am not the only one in this position - I really do not know wich way to turn.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At 13A, you're charging at 3kW (not withstanding @paul1609's point about limiting that max current) - for a 2200 to 0630 charging period that'll give you 25.5 kWh - around 50% of a typical 'small' battery pack. There'll certainly be no need for the car to artificially limit how it is charging! It's definitely usable, but not ideal - especially if you're a higher mileage user.

But most people aren't high mileage users or anywhere near it. On a weekday most cars take the kids to school, do a commuter trip to the nearest large town for work, pick the kids up and maybe one more trip to take the kids somewhere or to the nearest supermarket. Twenty or thirty miles maybe. Thus, having depleted for a weekend away, the charge can creep back up for the next weekend, and that assumes you do a long trip every weekend!

The needs of a prolific business traveller are nothing like the needs of a typical, average family who mostly use their car locally.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2022 ==

I am hoping to buy a new car within the next 12 months but I am still unsure whether to go for a petrol or EV vehicle, and I don’t have a leaning either one way or another. I don’t think hybrid will fit the bill since you are effectively carrying two engines around with you which doesn’t really make sense. My annual mileage is circa 18,000 per year, a mixture of short and long journeys.

At the moment if I were you I would probably go for a medium sized diesel hatch or estate with the intention to keep for about 5 years, unless you are frequently going into the centre of large cities which may ban or restrict all ICEs in the near future. If you are, a diesel hybrid.

You will find a petrol too costly due to the higher fuel consumption of one due to your very high mileage, and an EV frustrating if you don't like long enough breaks to charge en route.

 

[trebor79]

Most cars do maybe twenty or thirty miles a day on weekdays. It's plenty to get you to a full charge for a weekend away.

Plus with more usage overnight it won't be "really cheap electricity" as it is now. The situation is likely to end up reversing - high demand overnight for charging EVs, lower demand during the day unless it's freezing cold as lighting and electronics use a fraction of what they used to.

There will still be super cheap electricity, it just won't be at fixed times of the day. There's massive amounts of wind coming on stream in the next few years, and flogging cheap power when there is more production than demand avoids big curtailment fees.

The issue with your presumption that a granny charge suffices for day to day use is that you haven't considered how you cater for the longer trips. So I arrive home from a longer trip with 5% battery (because there's no point loading up at a public charger when I can charge for a tenth of the cost at home). Your granny charge model gets you though your day to do during the week, but now we come to the weekend and you want to go and visit great Auntie Mabel. Oh, you can't, or you have to buy more very expensive rapid charger electricity than you would if you charged at 7kW at home and we're able to "beat" the day to day use.

This, together with the fact that cheap power will likely be for short periods at random times means a proper EVSE is essential. Habitual 13A charging also isn't super safe and has led to consumer unit fires.
My EVSE is not connected via the main consumer unit to reduce the fire risk.

 

[AM9]

I don't think we can really take no news as good news in this instance. Fully electrified heating and significant amounts of home EV charging could absolutely cause headaches at the most local levels of distribution if everything is switched on at the same time and on a local substation that is already quite highly loaded (there's a few references in the paper I linked above). It's not a hugely like occurrence but definitely not zero especially on a cold winter evening, hence an increasing focus on 'demand side response' being able to manage the operation of devices remotely to deliberately keep the 'diversity factor' where they need it (and self-generation & storage to an extent) to avoid expensive and disruptive alterations to local distribution networks.

The article was specifically referring to the myths circulating about the impact of EVs in the future, and that is an area where demand side management is already established, in legislation, pricing and progressively in vehicle and charger self-management.
Although OT for this thread, electric heating, be it direct or with heat pumps, is a far bigger issue, and for there to be a wholesale switch away from carbon heating fuels the ESO is planning major reinforcement of the 400kV grid partiularly along the eastern side of the country where many of the large offshore wind farms are located. The DNOs will follow lower down the distribution hierarchy, particularly in large areas of residential properties. When that is underway, demand for EVs will be a small manageable add-on.