Younger aged locomotive or rolling stock ownership?

[Trainspotter43]

Hi,

I was recently on the Peak Rail site and I came across the Briddon railway collection and read the story of how he learnt to drive/shunt his dads locomotives at a young age and how he owned a locomotive as a teenager (Although I can’t work out whether he officially owned them or his dad did because of his age). It got me wondering,

Is there a legal age that you have to be to buy and Maintain a locomotive, Coach or Wagon in the UK or is it similar to the rules about under 18’s owning property please? I know you can’t drive the locos until you’re around 17/18 and trained (Some preserved lines let slightly younger people drive under supervision I believe).

Like would it be possible for a teenager (aged 13,14 say) with the money to buy, Store and maintain to buy a locomotive to actually and legally buy the locomotive and run it on a preserved line (Obviously negotiations with the line would happen way before). Obvious it’s a nonsensical question but just something I wondered.

Sorry it’s so long, All Help, Answers, Links, Discussions, Sources and comments are as usual greatly appreciated and gratefully received

 

[Fragezeichnen]

People under 18 are not bound to the terms of contracts they enter into. So no sane person would sign either a sales contract or an operating agreement with a child.

As you say, it is a nonsensical question. The chance of a 13 year old acquiring or earning enough money to purchase rolling stock without the active assistance of an adult is pretty much zero, so were a child with either smart business acumen or indulgent parents to desire to purchase something then whomever was handling their financial affairs would also serve as the legal owner and operator.

The RSSB take a dim view of under 18's carrying safety critical responsibility on a public railway. If you have your own private site I guess you can do what you want, but were there to be an incident which resulted in injury, I imagine the police would be quite interested in whoeverer thought it was a good idea to put a 13 year old in sole charge of a diesel locomotive.

 

[Trainspotter43]

People under 18 are not bound to the terms of contracts they enter into. So no sane person would sign either a sales contract or an operating agreement with a child.

As you say, it is a nonsensical question. The chance of a 13 year old acquiring or earning enough money to purchase rolling stock without the active assistance of an adult is pretty much zero, so were a child with either smart business acumen or indulgent parents to desire to purchase something then whomever was handling their financial affairs would also serve as the legal owner and operator.

The RSSB take a dim view of under 18's carrying safety critical responsibility on a public railway. If you have your own private site I guess you can do what you want, but were there to be an incident which resulted in injury, I imagine the police would be quite interested in whoeverer thought it was a good idea to put a 13 year old in sole charge of a diesel locomotive.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Nov 2022 ==

Yes I’m completely with you, I knew that under 18’s by law weren’t bound to terms in terms of property etc, I did think it might be the same here.

I assume legally that Andrew Briddons dad owned the locomotives but maybe his son (who was a teenager) helped Maintain them and such.

I mean I knew all along the teen wouldn’t be able to drive the loco.

Thank you very much for the comment, you’ve helped immensely

 

[trebor79]

People under 18 are not bound to the terms of contracts they enter into. So no sane person would sign either a sales contract or an operating agreement with a child.

As you say, it is a nonsensical question. The chance of a 13 year old acquiring or earning enough money to purchase rolling stock without the active assistance of an adult is pretty much zero, so were a child with either smart business acumen or indulgent parents to desire to purchase something then whomever was handling their financial affairs would also serve as the legal owner and operator.

The RSSB take a dim view of under 18's carrying safety critical responsibility on a public railway. If you have your own private site I guess you can do what you want, but were there to be an incident which resulted in injury, I imagine the police would be quite interested in whoeverer thought it was a good idea to put a 13 year old in sole charge of a diesel locomotive.

Crikey. Things have changed a bit! I was driving passenger trains on a heritage railway at 17. That was 26 years ago mind...

 

[notverydeep]

You can own a loco at any age, but the recommended minimum is the your age on the day your bank balance reaches £1 million (diesel) or £10 million (steam)…

 

[Trainspotter43]

You can own a loco at any age, but the recommended minimum is the your age on the day your bank balance reaches £1 million (diesel) or £10 million (steam)…

I thought legality wise under 18’s couldn’t be held to a contract like they are with houses and property as such, I’m not sure many owners would negotiate with a teenager either if it came to it. Is there a source that states under 18’s could legally buy a locomotive and maintain it? Obviously I put it originally as a hypothetical question but I did wonder if it was possible

 

[Fragezeichnen]

I don't think that was a serious post.

 

[notverydeep]

I thought legality wise under 18’s couldn’t be held to a contract like they are with houses and property as such, I’m not sure many owners would negotiate with a teenager either if it came to it. Is there a source that states under 18’s could legally buy a locomotive and maintain it? Obviously I put it originally as a hypothetical question but I did wonder if it was possible

Given that children under 18 can be given or earn and thus spend their own money (and can be taxed) they do 'own' the things they spend it on. From chocolate bars to video games to locomotives of a variety of sizes. If they had enough cash and the seller was willing to accept it, presumably that would make them the owner, in the same way that I was the owner of that Lima HST I saved up for all those years ago? From some googling, the law seems to be along the lines of it belongs to the purchaser unless given away, so the clothes my parents bought for me to wear remained their property, but the model train they gave me for Christmas or one I bought with my paper-round money was fully mine (though I am no lawyer). Clearly in practice a 17 year old buying a main line certified pacific from Jeremy Hosking without at least some paperwork and thus parental involvement is fairly improbable…

It is also possible (and perhaps a fair bit more likely) that someone under the age of 18 could inherit such a locomotive. As with the case of a inheriting a house it would be owned by the child, but a trust of some sort would have to be created for this whether it was an actual A4 pacific or a just a Hornby A4 pacific. Plus, they would clearly need an adult once they wanted to do much with it, as a heritage railway to store, operate or maintain it, an insurer to insure it etc. would all clearly need some form of contract.

My first, somewhat glib contribution to this thread does prompt a further question. If they were (un)lucky enough to inherit a money pit large steam loco but were not in possession of the requisite £10 million, would they be able to sell it before it bankrupted them and any trustees!

 

[Trainspotter43]

Given that children under 18 can be given or earn and thus spend their own money (and can be taxed) they do 'own' the things they spend it on. From chocolate bars to video games to locomotives of a variety of sizes. If they had enough cash and the seller was willing to accept it, presumably that would make them the owner, in the same way that I was the owner of that Lima HST I saved up for all those years ago? From some googling, the law seems to be along the lines of it belongs to the purchaser unless given away, so the clothes my parents bought for me to wear remained their property, but the model train they gave me for Christmas or one I bought with my paper-round money was fully mine (though I am no lawyer). Clearly in practice a 17 year old buying a main line certified pacific from Jeremy Hosking without at least some paperwork and thus parental involvement is fairly improbable…

It is also possible (and perhaps a fair bit more likely) that someone under the age of 18 could inherit such a locomotive. As with the case of a inheriting a house it would be owned by the child, but a trust of some sort would have to be created for this whether it was an actual A4 pacific or a just a Hornby A4 pacific. Plus, they would clearly need an adult once they wanted to do much with it, as a heritage railway to store, operate or maintain it, an insurer to insure it etc. would all clearly need some form of contract.

My first, somewhat glib contribution to this thread does prompt a further question. If they were (un)lucky enough to inherit a money pit large steam loco but were not in possession of the requisite £10 million, would they be able to sell it before it bankrupted them and any trustees!

Thank you very much for your answer.