Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 Stadler FLIRTs

[AdamWW]

Does anyone know the capacity of the batteries on the Class 756? Do they give a significant range off the wires? Or are they just enough to accelerate the train to linespeed from a standing start, and the re-absorb that kinetic energy again, instead of turning it into heat in the braking system?

Given the plan for an intermittent electrification scheme I think they'll need to be better than that (and wouldn't really be tri-modes if that's all they could do).

An article on the BBC Wales news about the Metro mentions the 231's will enter service in January
BBC News - South Wales Metro: Further delays confirmed for railway upgrade

That link didn't work for me, but this one does (for now), and includes:

"The new Stadler 231 trains are due to be introduced in January and the majority of work on the South Wales Metro scheduled for completion in 2024."

 

[Nottingham59]

Given the plan for an intermittent electrification scheme

So what range does that plan imply for off-wire battery operation? I ask because it's not clear (to me at least) what routes are planned for battery-only; and which will require the diesel engine too.

EDIT: According to https://www.modernrailways.com/article/wales-awaits-new-fleets
The 756s "will be powered either by overhead wires or batteries on the Rhymney line, but will switch to a combination of battery and diesel power for operation west of Cardiff to Penarth, Barry Island and on the Vale of Glamorgan line."

Which suggests they will be able to get from Bargoed to Rhymney (6 miles each way), but not much further than that. Is that correct?

 

[AdamWW]

So what range does that plan imply for off-wire battery operation? I ask because it's not clear (to me at least) what routes are planned for battery-only; and which will require the diesel engine too.

It's not clear to me either.

The furthest away from the wires I think they will normally get is the Vale of Glamorgan line to Bridgend.
I had assumed that this would require diesel operation even if Barry and Penarth don't but I've seen it suggested that the plan is that in normal operation they can manage even that (and back) on battery.

 

[Trainbike46]

The 755s at GA have 2 diesel generators (3-car units) or 4 diesel generators (4-car units). the TfW 756s have a single diesel generator, with the other 3 spaces in the generator car taken by batteries. I don't know how much power they can store, but the batteries take up about 3/4 of the generator car, so must be significant. In addition, as there's only a single diesel generator, there's almost certainly reduced acceleration (and speed) when exclusively running on diesel

 

[craigybagel]

The 755s at GA have 2 diesel generators (3-car units) or 4 diesel generators (4-car units). the TfW 756s have a single diesel generator, with the other 3 spaces in the generator car taken by batteries. I don't know how much power they can store, but the batteries take up about 3/4 of the generator car, so must be significant. In addition, as there's only a single diesel generator, there's almost certainly reduced acceleration (and speed) when exclusively running on diesel

Bear in mind though that unlike the 755s, the 756s are only 75mph max, and I don't believe the linespeed on the non electrified sections (Cardiff - Penarth/Barry Island/Bridgend) ever exceeds 60mph. It may well be that even on reduced power, if they're geared for a lower top speed they may still give a decent level of acceleration.

 

[Nottingham59]

there's only a single diesel generator, there's almost certainly reduced acceleration (and speed) when exclusively running on diesel

True, but you would normally run a diesel/battery train in hybrid mode; using the batteries to accelerate to line speed, and then use the single diesel engine to top up the batteries over time. Like an EV car, I'd expect a diesel/battery hybrid to have much better acceleration than a diesel-only train.

EDIT: The Stadler specification sheet: https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/fwbbmu0519e.pdf
says that the batteries can deliver 1300kW at the rail, which is half the 2600kW available under the wires. And almost as much as the 1500kW available to the diesel-powered 231.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

https://twitter.com/Huxleypiguk/status/1593219634857381890?t=3GfeCjaC60W8-cJQQEl36g&s=33 First 756 to be delivered to canton tomorrow.

 

[Anonymous10]

https://twitter.com/Huxleypiguk/status/1593219634857381890?t=3GfeCjaC60W8-cJQQEl36g&s=33 First 756 to be delivered to canton tomorrow.

that would be a 197 and 756 both arriving on the same day do i smell a press event coming

 

[Bob Price]

Following this on the schedule it seems to have stopped in the London area in the early morning. By now it should be on the GWML and there is no sign of it.

 

[anthony263]

that would be a 197 and 756 both arriving on the same day do i smell a press event coming

197002s trip been cancelled

 

[3973EXL]

Following this on the schedule it seems to have stopped in the London area in the early morning. By now it should be on the GWML and there is no sign of it.

If you look on RTT the timings are West to East. It picked up times for a 5Q99 Northampton - Ilford.

 

[56xx]

Contractors have been busy this week installing concrete bases and cradles on platforms on the Rhymney Valley line.
On enquiring what they were for I was told that they are for new platform based wheelchair ramp facilities because the new trains (231 & 756) did not have on board ramps.
I would have thought the new trains would have had mechanical ramps on at least the doors nearest the wheelchair area.
Does this mean that all platforms served by 231 & 756 trains will need platform based ramps?
Is this the case with the Greater Anglia flirts?

 

[Anonymous10]

Contractors have been busy this week installing concrete bases and cradles on platforms on the Rhymney Valley line.
On enquiring what they were for I was told that they are for new platform based wheelchair ramp facilities because the new trains (231 & 756) did not have on board ramps.
I would have thought the new trains would have had mechanical ramps on at least the doors nearest the wheelchair area.
Does this mean that all platforms served by 231 & 756 trains will need platform based ramps?
Is this the case with the Greater Anglia flirts?

perhaps tha gap is too far for the ramps on board or angle too steep

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Contractors have been busy this week installing concrete bases and cradles on platforms on the Rhymney Valley line.
On enquiring what they were for I was told that they are for new platform based wheelchair ramp facilities because the new trains (231 & 756) did not have on board ramps.
I would have thought the new trains would have had mechanical ramps on at least the doors nearest the wheelchair area.
Does this mean that all platforms served by 231 & 756 trains will need platform based ramps?
Is this the case with the Greater Anglia flirts?

It's just a temporary measure until the platforms have been altered to allow for level boarding.

 

[56xx]

It's just a temporary measure until the platforms have been altered to allow for level boarding.

Ok thanks.
It may be easier in some cases to lower the track. What tolerance is there up or down from train floor level to platform level?

 

[The_Train]

Did a 756 arrive at Canton in the end?

 

[Bob Price]

The delivery today is now officially listed as cancelled. Look out for it next week

 

[The_Train]

The delivery today is now officially listed as cancelled. Look out for it next week

Thanks Bob

 

[Bob Price]

Apparently the unit is still in Calais!

 

[Buzz68]

231008 seen parked up today at the bay platform Caerphilly. These are stunning units they are going transform transport in Wales. 231002 seen passing on the 3R07

 

[3973EXL]

66002 0Z70 Didcot - Dollands Moor

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R49787/2022-11-21/detailed

 

[AlexNL]

Interesting to see analog controls for speed and TPWS, and the GSM-R unit positioned smack bang in the middle of the desk.

 

[AdamWW]

Contractors have been busy this week installing concrete bases and cradles on platforms on the Rhymney Valley line.
On enquiring what they were for I was told that they are for new platform based wheelchair ramp facilities because the new trains (231 & 756) did not have on board ramps.
I would have thought the new trains would have had mechanical ramps on at least the doors nearest the wheelchair area.
Does this mean that all platforms served by 231 & 756 trains will need platform based ramps?
Is this the case with the Greater Anglia flirts?

From memory using them (on the first day of operation, by pure fluke) the GA FLIRTS have level boarding and wheelchair ramps are not generally required.

For use in some places where the gap is too great, the trains carry small "ramps" to bridge the gap.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

From memory using them (on the first day of operation, by pure fluke) the GA FLIRTS have level boarding and wheelchair ramps are not generally required.

For use in some places where the gap is too great, the trains carry small "ramps" to bridge the gap.

There are no onboard ramps on these which is why the ramps are being installed on the stations

 

[AdamWW]

Here is a ramp in "use" in the first weeks of GA FLIRT operation.

Nobody actually needed it - they were just trying it out.

My memory is that it was carried on the train not stored on the platform, but I'm happy to be corrected by those who know better.

In any case, the trains will be a big step up (or rather not, if you see what I mean) from what is currently operating in the Valleys.

 

[3973EXL]

66002 0Z70 Didcot - Dollands Moor

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R49787/2022-11-21/detailed

66002 WBAE DMOOR LRS DOLLANDSM N STAD

STP 24/11 5Q99 0237 Ripple Lane - Canton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R48722/2022-11-24/detailed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2022 ==

23/11
6L22 1711 Dollands Moor - Ripple Lane 92042 66002 Stadler unit dep 1702
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H27899/2022-11-23/detailed

 

[Bob Price]

Picture of the 756 on Instagram. Link here
https://www.instagram.com/p/ClT3RRQtZ7u/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

 

[The_Train]

66002 WBAE DMOOR LRS DOLLANDSM N STAD

STP 24/11 5Q99 0237 Ripple Lane - Canton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R48722/2022-11-24/detailed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2022 ==

23/11
6L22 1711 Dollands Moor - Ripple Lane 92042 66002 Stadler unit dep 1702
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H27899/2022-11-23/detailed

Picture of the 756 on Instagram. Link here
https://www.instagram.com/p/ClT3RRQtZ7u/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Anyone ID'd the unit yet?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Anyone ID'd the unit yet?

I think it was quoted as 756104 but not 100% on that score.

 

[cockneyviking]

I think it was quoted as 756104 but not 100% on that score.

756001