Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[MattRat]

Was there EVER a period of amazing seats in standard class?

Personally, they look ok, but it feels a bit pointless to have this type of exercise when presumably they've ordered the seats anyway.

Ok, maybe amazing is a bit much, but these seats just lack the....bolstering...of most good intercity seats. It just doesn't look right and a bit of a downgrade. Even a 158 has more intercity style seats than this, also used by EMR, funnily enough.....

 

[43096]

Nice! That made me smile!



That will teach me to not rush a post! Thank you for the correction!

In this case, perhaps it should be “The proof of the padding is in the sitting”?

 

[WesternLancer]

Is it at all possible that EMR are planning to do so at Leicester and St Pancras, maybe even Kettering, in due course? It might just be a case of limited resources to do it at all the stations at the same time. I have no evidence of that, just a passing thought.

I concur with those who suggested St Pancras is a bit limited for space to do such a thing, it's a busy place and taking up space for a seat trial would not go down too well!

I went to see the seats yesterday - there would be no shortage of room at St P to display what is on show - either on the ground level, the upper level or probably even on the small immediate EMR concourse - so it's probably down to station management - easier if it's an EMR managed station as said above.

So what of the seats themselves?

The display is 2 standard class seats side by side - so you can't get a sense of how close they will be to the opposite or the seats in front and thus a main comfort factor leg room. I found the seats pretty comfortable - but of course at most you prob sit in them for 5 mins at the display - not c1 hour like a trip would be.

I thought the vinyl or lether headrest area was good - easy to keep clean from dirty hair in these post anti Macassar days for a start. Similarly covered armrests seems a good idea.

Fabric on the seats (moquette) looks smart (moquette?) - it's 'ribbed' / textured as opposed to 'smooth' - this seems nice but I'd be unsure how easy it was to quickly keep clean - ie can you easily brush off crumbs etc on that finish. I'd assume that has been tested with cleaners input since making it easier to clean quickly saves money. But you can never be sure of such things.

So my view is that it's better than a Meridian seat, better than an Azuma seat and certainly better than a Thameslink seat. Not as good as the last generation of EMR HSTs (the ex LNER sets refurbished by VTEC)

No 1st class seats in the display.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought the vinyl or lether headrest area was good - easy to keep clean from dirty hair in these post anti Macassar days for a start.

Totally agree. It looks classy, too. I'd go dark grey - less likely to get mucky - but that's minor.

Similarly covered armrests seems a good idea.

I have mixed views on this - where I've seen them they tend to wear badly and become damaged when people belt them with luggage or the drinks trolley or kids stand on them.

Fabric on the seats (moquette) looks smart (moquette?) - it's 'ribbed' / textured as opposed to 'smooth' - this seems nice but I'd be unsure how easy it was to quickly keep clean - ie can you easily brush off crumbs etc on that finish. I'd assume that has been tested with cleaners input since making it easier to clean quickly saves money. But you can never be sure of such things.

LNR have used ribbed moquette on their latest refurb. It seems to stay clean easily enough, but what it does do is wear really badly and obviously, particularly when not in a bright colour. The 350/1s and /4s with this now look much more worn than the /3s which retain the original green moquette. Like flat cloth this seems to be a fad but a bad idea.

 

[WesternLancer]

Totally agree. It looks classy, too. I'd go dark grey - less likely to get mucky - but that's minor.



I have mixed views on this - where I've seen them they tend to wear badly and become damaged when people belt them with luggage or the drinks trolley or kids stand on them.



LNR have used ribbed moquette on their latest refurb. It seems to stay clean easily enough, but what it does do is wear really badly and obviously, particularly when not in a bright colour. The 350/1s and /4s with this now look much more worn than the /3s which retain the original green moquette. Like flat cloth this seems to be a fad but a bad idea.

Thanks for those observations - I agree with you ref armrests. I suspect better would be solid plastic as it were - ie not a finishing layer at all as not really needed IMHO. Interesting observations ref moquette.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks for those observations - I agree with you ref armrests. I suspect better would be solid plastic as it were - ie not a finishing layer at all as not really needed IMHO. Interesting observations ref moquette.

Because of how armrests are used by some people to help them climb in the seat, kids stand on them (sometimes shorter adults too if trying to reach the overheads) etc they really need to be able to take a very substantial weight - possibly 100kg or more. As such they probably need to contain metal, though a solid layer of hard plastic with no joins over the top is probably necessary to avoid them being damaged.

Sure, a bit of moquette or vinyl is probably more comfortable, but a damaged one is less comfortable than one designed not to become damaged.

 

[WesternLancer]

Because of how armrests are used by some people to help them climb in the seat, kids stand on them (sometimes shorter adults too if trying to reach the overheads) etc they really need to be able to take a very substantial weight - possibly 100kg or more. As such they probably need to contain metal, though a solid layer of hard plastic with no joins over the top is probably necessary to avoid them being damaged.

Sure, a bit of moquette or vinyl is probably more comfortable, but a damaged one is less comfortable than one designed not to become damaged.

Sure - I assumed that they would have metal bars within them but the coating that forms the armrest the passengers uses in my view might as well be 100% plastic - not involving the extra costs of a fabric/vinyl/leather covering to upholster it. Sorry I wasn't clear.

 

[LowLevel]

A couple of detail photos of the armrests, handhold and moquette if you're interested in such things.

 

[WesternLancer]

A couple of detail photos of the armrests, handhold and moquette if you're interested in such things.View attachment 123890View attachment 123891

Thanks @LowLevel ! I didn't have a camera with me so was relying on my powers of description - but a picture is worth .... and all that

 

[Goldfish62]

Was there EVER a period of amazing seats in standard class?

Personally, they look ok, but it feels a bit pointless to have this type of exercise when presumably they've ordered the seats anyway.

They were ordered a couple of years ago.

Ian Walmsley (Modern Railways) tried them last year. He's very difficult to impress with seats, but he thought they were pretty good, and certainly much better than anything else around at the moment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A couple of detail photos of the armrests, handhold and moquette if you're interested in such things.View attachment 123890View attachment 123891

Thanks. That is the same type of moquette used by LNR on the 350/1 and 350/4, and it will as such wear very quickly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2022 ==

They were ordered a couple of years ago.

Ian Walmsley (Modern Railways) tried them last year. He's very difficult to impress with seats, but he thought they were pretty good, and certainly much better than anything else around at the moment.

I personally do rather like the FISA LEAN to sit in, it is one of the better ones, good enough that SWR consider it first class. Very similar to the excellent Grammer E3000 Desiro seat, and arguably better looking too. However what it is is a very thick-backed seat, and so a lot of it will ride on how generous they are with the spacing.

 

[LowLevel]

If there's anything else you're particularly interested in close up do let me know, I'll be passing it again in a bit.

 

[43066]

If there's anything else you're particularly interested in close up do let me know, I'll be passing it again in a bit.

The one at Derby was being used as a climbing frame a short while ago .

 

[WesternLancer]

Ian Walmsley (Modern Railways) tried them last year. He's very difficult to impress with seats, but he thought they were pretty good, and certainly much better than anything else around at the moment.

wasn't he being interviewed in a 1st class seat for that? or am I mis-recalling?

 

[bluelagoon8951]

wasn't he being interviewed in a 1st class seat for that? or am I mis-recalling?

this was indeed in a 1st class seat

 

[LowLevel]

I forgot to give my actual opinion, helpfully - which is that they're rather nice. They felt comfy enough and as if they're not going to start causing me back issues after a short while (EMR 158s I'm looking at you!). The wings push my shoulders slightly but I can adjust to suit. Cushions are fine.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I like the look of the padded and fairly chunky armrest. I can’t tolerate the rock solid armrests on Fainsa seats.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2022 ==

Here's another view of the seats:

View attachment 123862

Taken from post by Stephen McGurk on Linkedln.

https://uk.linkedin.com/posts/steph...ic_post&utm_medium=g_dt_web&utm_campaign=copy

Looks to be a firm downgrade from 222 seats, I personally think.

 

[Goldfish62]

wasn't he being interviewed in a 1st class seat for that? or am I mis-recalling?

I'm sure he tried both, but I may be wrong.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Are the seats in shades of grey or purple? The lighting in the photos make the seats appear more grey.

Hopefully different floor carpets, in dark purple, will get selected as the sample in the photo don't seem to match well with the seats. Is the floor carpet sample really LNR's as seen in the refurb'd 350s?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Purple. The carpet isn't the same as LNR's.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Purple. The carpet isn't the same as LNR's.

Thanks. Oh dear, I'm not too keen on the carpet. I was expecting something much nicer like SWR's dark blue carpet but in purple for EMR. Penny pinching I suppose!

 

[WizCastro197]

Thanks. Oh dear, I'm not too keen on the carpet. I was expecting something much nicer like SWR's dark blue carpet but in purple for EMR. Penny pinching I suppose!

I am somewhat forced to disagree, I really quite like the carpet, It is quite dull which I think is actually quite a nice aspect to the the more vivid colours of the seats. I think they match rather well. I think I willl faint from all the purple if there was purple carpet as well.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I am somewhat forced to disagree, I really quite like the carpet, It is quite dull which I think is actually quite a nice aspect to the the more vivid colours of the seats. I think they match rather well. I think I willl faint from all the purple if there was purple carpet as well.

Fair enough, the 444s & 450s are drowning in SWR blue, from seats down to carpets, I have to say! This can seem overwhelming to others, I don't mind personally, but I agree some contrast can work to balance things out.

Lighter coloured carpets could work for the 810s with those seats, my issue is really about the pattern which looks horrid. This takes me back to my uni days that the student's union cafe-bar had carpets looked exactly like that, so cheap and wafer thin, easily lifted up and tear with your hands without use of tools. Also covered in stain patches!

 

[WesternLancer]

Lighter coloured carpets could work for the 810s with those seats, my issue is really about the pattern which looks horrid. This takes me back to my uni days that the student's union cafe-bar had carpets looked exactly like that, so cheap and wafer thin, easily lifted up and tear with your hands without use of tools. Also covered in stain patches!

I've bolded the parts of your post that have a causal link IMHO

You need colours that don't show dirt if you are furnishing a public realm (not a bad idea in your own home too - but you have more control over how much cleaning you do in your own home).

 

[geoffk]

Fair enough, the 444s & 450s are drowning in SWR blue, from seats down to carpets, I have to say! This can seem overwhelming to others, I don't mind personally, but I agree some contrast can work to balance things out.

Lighter coloured carpets could work for the 810s with those seats, my issue is really about the pattern which looks horrid. This takes me back to my uni days that the student's union cafe-bar had carpets looked exactly like that, so cheap and wafer thin, easily lifted up and tear with your hands without use of tools. Also covered in stain patches!

A waffer-thin carpet, Mr. Creosote.

 

[Mikey C]

Maybe we should ask Tim Martin to provide some Wetherspoon carpets for use in trains

 

[Mordac]

Maybe we should ask Tim Martin to provide some Wetherspoon carpets for use in trains

Would every unit have a different pattern, though?

 

[Trainbike46]

Would every unit have a different pattern, though?

A new way of identifying the different units, maybe?

"the unit with the pink, purple and blue swirly carpet"

 

[QSK19]

A new way of identifying the different units, maybe?

"the unit with the pink, purple and blue swirly carpet"

Could do it in homage to all the different liveries & interiors that have graced the MML/Regional network. With the hodgepodge of various liveries and seat designs it’s had - especially under EMR’s tenure - surely we must be able to get to 33?

 

[87electric]

A waffer-thin carpet, Mr. Creosote.

Had me rolling with that one.