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Online tickets - am I getting something wrong.

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Greetlander

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I'm in Australia - trying to look up rail prices for either Leeds-London or Manchester-London on 02/01/2023. It's coming up as no fares available. Does that mean sold out, they can't plan that far ahead or user error? Genuinely stumped.
 
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Flying Snail

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Where are you looking, I get fares showing for that date from Leeds but not Manchester.

2 Jan is a public holiday in lieu of New years day.
 

Haywain

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3 Feb 2013
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24,694
Leeds to Kings Cross is open for booking and has plenty of availability, but Manchester to Euston is not yet open.
 

plugwash

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Joined
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I'm in Australia - trying to look up rail prices for either Leeds-London or Manchester-London on 02/01/2023. It's coming up as no fares available. Does that mean sold out, they can't plan that far ahead or user error? Genuinely stumped.
During the Covid pandemic, long distance rail services were made compulsory reservation. Only a few stations were actually able to enforce the compulsory reservations and even that enforcement stopped some time ago, but some operators are still marking their services as reservations compulsory in the timetable data.

Online retailers nearly always insist on generating an itinerary and if the trains in that itinery are marked as "compulsory reservatoin" then they won't sell a ticket against it unless they can make a seat reservation.

Simultaniously a combination of changing covid restrictions, staff absenses due to Covid and now industrial relations issues has thrown timetable planning into disarray. Timetables are being confirmed way later than normal, particularly for weekends, bank holidays etc where engineering works are common. Seat reservations will not be released until the timetable is confirmed.

Unfortunately the backend system that powers rail bookings can't distinguish between a train for which all reservations have sold out, and a train for which no reservations have been released yet. If the rail system was operating normally there would be little need for it to do so, but as mentioned above the current operation of the rail system is far from normal.

BTW as a foreign visitor to the UK, depending on how much travel you plan to do you might want to consider a Britrail pass instead of regular rail tickets.
 

Paul Kelly

Verified Rep - BR Fares
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4,233
Location
Reading
Unfortunately the backend system that powers rail bookings can't distinguish between a train for which all reservations have sold out, and a train for which no reservations have been released yet.
I'm not sure this is true - do you have any evidence for this? My feeling was that it was the retail websites and apps, using a common message for all situations where a reservation is not available, that are causing this confusion.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,694
I'm not sure this is true - do you have any evidence for this? My feeling was that it was the retail websites and apps, using a common message for all situations where a reservation is not available, that are causing this confusion.
I think it is true. If it wasn’t we would surely have seen at least one site or TIS showing the distinction.
 

js517

Member
Joined
4 Sep 2018
Messages
178
Location
Cragg Vale, West Yorkshire
I think it is true. If it wasn’t we would surely have seen at least one site or TIS showing the distinction.

There's the potential to distinguish between the scenarios in RARS (via the "error_code" and "reason" fields in the response). I'm not sure I'd trust it to be reliable though.
 
Joined
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There's the potential to distinguish between the scenarios in RARS (via the "error_code" and "reason" fields in the response)
I imagine many users are still on the old NRS-style API, where it's impossible to tell. The real RARS messages seem much better
 

Greetlander

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2018
Messages
230
Location
Sydney, Australia
During the Covid pandemic, long distance rail services were made compulsory reservation. Only a few stations were actually able to enforce the compulsory reservations and even that enforcement stopped some time ago, but some operators are still marking their services as reservations compulsory in the timetable data.

Online retailers nearly always insist on generating an itinerary and if the trains in that itinery are marked as "compulsory reservatoin" then they won't sell a ticket against it unless they can make a seat reservation.

Simultaniously a combination of changing covid restrictions, staff absenses due to Covid and now industrial relations issues has thrown timetable planning into disarray. Timetables are being confirmed way later than normal, particularly for weekends, bank holidays etc where engineering works are common. Seat reservations will not be released until the timetable is confirmed.

Unfortunately the backend system that powers rail bookings can't distinguish between a train for which all reservations have sold out, and a train for which no reservations have been released yet. If the rail system was operating normally there would be little need for it to do so, but as mentioned above the current operation of the rail system is far from normal.

BTW as a foreign visitor to the UK, depending on how much travel you plan to do you might want to consider a Britrail pass instead of regular rail tickets.
Thanks - the small amount of Brit rail travel I'm doing doesn't warrant it unfortunately.
 
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