GWR should operate in the Chiltern line, by extending the Greenford service

[Chiltern006]

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ndon-reported-to-be-replaced-by-a-bus.239293/

what would be better is if they built platforms on the adjacent line to Greenford tube, and had the GWR service run through!!

 

[Horizon22]

what would be better is if they built platforms on the adjacent line to Greenford tube, and had the GWR service run through!!

Greenford could do with remodelling, definitely. As could working out something with the former NNL route.

I think a tram / cycleway straight through to Old Oak Common would be a nice idea.

 

[Basil Jet]

what would be better is if they built platforms on the adjacent line to Greenford tube, and had the GWR service run through!!

I don't understand much about the usage of the line, but now that the southern end has connections for Bond Street and Liverpool Street, I'm not sure the northern end connection to the Central Line is needed (in so far as any part of the line is needed). If the line was extended to South Ruislip, running non-stop between South Greenford to South Ruislip, I'm not sure many people would mind.

 

[SynthD]

The paths that would take from Chiltern affect many times more people than would benefit. It is already possible to from South Ruislip to West Ealing via Greenford, it isn’t popular.

 

[zwk500]

If there was a way to provide a bay platform at West Ruislip so the service could just come in and out then this would make some sense, but as it is you can use the central line from Greenford to connect with Chiltern further down the line and the benefits really don't justify the costs.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Surely there is a really easy way of thinking about this?

The Central line will need new stock.

There is a need to continue to supply a form of freight infrastructure along the Greenford branch to get to Park Royal and on the way to the Chilterns.

Arguably, if you use the Bakerloo line as a template, you have the opportunity to run freight over Network Rail infrastructure? Doesn't the RHTT run across the likes of the Bakerloo line, ergo proving locos and wagons will go over 4th rail?

Therefore, surely, if you assume there are reasonable gaps in the timetable, there would be capacity for services on the West End of the Central line from the likes of West Ruislip towards both West Ealing and Greenford?

Indeed, you might suggest in favour of rebuilding South Ruislip as a facility for a half-hourly Chiltern Metro service to be looped in both directions, and then convert West Ruislip into a nicely-wide island for Chiltern services (aka just two platform through lines, not the existing three-track layout) with some goods loops installed just north of West Ruislip for both directions? That way you can effectively run and regulate a freight service.

Then I would potentially have to suggest that if the Central line runs a frequency of something like 34tph during high peak, of which there is about 10tph on the Ealing Broadway branch, there is surely some space for a West Ruislip to Old Oak Common shuttle with a little bit of remodelling around North Acton, even if it only enables something like 4tph at high peak, as people will then make the effort to jump on that specific service.

Then, if we now assume a standardised signalling system with new trains, time to finally reconnect the Uxbridge branch and therefore offer an Uxbridge to West Ealing service at a rate of 4tph, again with minor remodelling in the Greenford area.

Therefore you end up with a better Central line, and a new suite of services and journeys in West London, notably Uxbridge to West Ealing, West Ruislip to Old Oak Common and then the existing sorts of services.

 

[BrianW]

Short question- why? Longer question- what benefit? OK- it is a speculative discussion. I used to live in Northolt, and speculated lots!
To note-
- It's already possible to travel West Ruislip to West Ealing (and intermediate stations, and v/v) with a cross platform change at Greenford.
- There are already (or were) platforms on what was the Paddington- Birmingham main line via High Wycombe; https://www.flickr.com/photos/stockcarpete/30841903714
- National Library of Scotland (yes) maps; https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sid...54243&lon=-0.34481&layers=219&right=ESRIWorld
- There are (have been for years) bus routes Ruislip- Greenford- Ealing.
- There are bay platforms at West Ruislip- they are called the Central Line
- There is a rail connection from Met to West Ruislip Central Line/ depot; why would a passenger want to connect thereby? Such a service has not been thought worthwhile hitherto- rather like Park Royal/ Hanger Lane, or Sudbury this or that, or the West Hampstead complex.
I can see there may be benefit in linking to the new Old Oak, but that's another long-standing complex; under review almost annually I imagine.

 

[tomuk]

Why not use the existing turnback at Gerrards Cross? As the old Parliamentary to Paddington did. Of course this may all be superseded by a Chiltern station on the 'lawn' in front of OOC.

 

[The Planner]

You need freight loops way past Ruislip, pointless having them there when you would just hold them at Greenford or South Ruislip. Its do or die at the moment and a run to Risborough.

 

[leytongabriel]

Just thinking that when they proposed cutting the Greenford service back to West Ealing, the sweetener was that 4 trains an hour would run to connect with the Elizabeth Line.Then it seemed to slip to 4 an hour in peak hours and what's happened to it now? Back burner or lost for good?

 

[Basil Jet]

Then, if we now assume a standardised signalling system with new trains, time to finally reconnect the Uxbridge branch and therefore offer an Uxbridge to West Ealing service at a rate of 4tph, again with minor remodelling in the Greenford area.

Would this be with tube gauge trains or mainline-size trains? I don't think new mixed-height lines with compromise height platforms are allowed.

 

[JonathanH]

Just thinking that when they proposed cutting the Greenford service back to West Ealing, the sweetener was that 4 trains an hour would run to connect with the Elizabeth Line.Then it seemed to slip to 4 an hour in peak hours and what's happened to it now? Back burner or lost for good?

Requires two units though. No spare stock at the moment (and presumably no one to pay for it either).

 

[swt_passenger]

Just thinking that when they proposed cutting the Greenford service back to West Ealing, the sweetener was that 4 trains an hour would run to connect with the Elizabeth Line.Then it seemed to slip to 4 an hour in peak hours and what's happened to it now? Back burner or lost for good?

The last GW route study in 2018 clearly stated that 2 tph was considered adequate in the near future. 4 tph was possible but only if there was no freight on the line.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Would this be with tube gauge trains or mainline-size trains? I don't think new mixed-height lines with compromise height platforms are allowed.

Well I don’t think you would have a mixed height platform, as unlike the Bakerloo you wouldn’t have two operators and two stock types. You’d just use Central Line stock.

 

[Basil Jet]

Well I don’t think you would have a mixed height platform, as unlike the Bakerloo you wouldn’t have two operators and two stock types. You’d just use Central Line stock.

While the Picc trains have grandfather rights to track share with the Met to Uxbridge, I think a new Central Line branch to Uxbridge would not be allowed. In the long term Uxbridge will have to either become Met gauge or Picc gauge, and any thoughts about extension there need to fit into a bigger plan that gets rid of the compromise height platforms.

 

[leytongabriel]

The last GW route study in 2018 clearly stated that 2 tph was considered adequate in the near future. 4 tph was possible but only if there was no freight on the line.

not surprised , given how hard it is to find out at Greenford if there are any trains running without going through the barriers and upstairs

 

[DavidGrain]

I have read campaigns to extend the Central Line to Uxbridge via the link through the depot to the Metropolitan but this all ignores the fact that Central Line trains are not compatible with other Underground lines. I think it is to do with conductor rail height. That is why this connection (and the connection with the Chiltern Line) at West Ruislip is normally used by loco hauled trains say delivering new stock from the manufacturers.