When does a ticket become "used" under NRCoT Part F: 29.1?

[Haywain]

Trainline have doubled down in their response to my PayPal dispute:

Well, that's nonsense. A scanned ticket is not 'as good as a used ticket' if it hasn't been used for travel, and I am not aware of any 'Rail Industry' rules that they claim to be abiding by.

 

[Watershed]

Trainline have doubled down in their response to my PayPal dispute:

Walk-up tickets are (part) refundable even if part-used, and in this case it's not been used at all. As for "as good as used ticket", well that's just completely made up.

Obviously there will always be some people who are 'trying it on', but in your case, and especially given the evidence you have of your new booking, they are being completely unreasonable. Unfortunately I think you may have to pursue this one further.

 

[Adam Williams]

I think you may have to pursue this one further.

I've asked PayPal to review it, we'll see how that process goes!

 

[spag23]

I agree with Haywain. "A scanned ticket is as good as a used ticket" doesn't sound like the language of a Railway Rule. I'd ask Ratan to send you the actual text he's relying on, or to admit he made it up.
The argument that someone else could have used any reclaimed ticket holds no water anyway. Any ticket could have been used through barriers that were non-existent or open. So no record of its use anywhere. It's just something the seller/refunder has to accept, once given a reasonable explanation.

 

[Watershed]

I agree with Haywain. "A scanned ticket is as good as a used ticket" doesn't sound like the language of a Railway Rule. I'd ask Ratan to send you the actual text he's relying on, or to admit he made it up.
The argument that someone else could have used any reclaimed ticket holds no water anyway. Any ticket could have been used through barriers that were non-existent or open. So no record of its use anywhere. It's just something the seller/refunder has to accept, once given a reasonable explanation.

And more to the point, if the OP's intended service had been cancelled or delayed after they passed the barriers, they would have been entitled to claim a full refund. So the suggestion that a barrier scan makes a ticket non-refundable is just plain nonsense. If there had been a scan onboard a train, that might be a different matter.

 

[Kilopylae]

the TOC very much took a view that scanning them at the barrier marks them as used,

It does mark them as used and I can see why the TOC feels this is sufficient - but they're mixing up causal and diagnostic relevance. It is probably a little frustrating not to have a reliable way to know for certain whether a ticket has been used - it does (theoretically) open up a big loophole for fraud.

Not that any of that is the passenger's problem of course.

Well, that's nonsense. A scanned ticket is not 'as good as a used ticket' if it hasn't been used for travel, and I am not aware of any 'Rail Industry' rules that they claim to be abiding by.

It's written in shockingly unprofessional language.

 

[Adam Williams]

Happy to report that PayPal ruled in my favour on this dispute.

I hope Trainline review their procedures and retrain their customer services staff following this case.

 

[jumble]

Well, that's nonsense. A scanned ticket is not 'as good as a used ticket' if it hasn't been used for travel, and I am not aware of any 'Rail Industry' rules that they claim to be abiding by.

Ratan just made the policy up.
As he works in the rail industry ....

 

[Haywain]

Ratan just made the policy up.
As he works in the rail industry ....

You should let that bias go. Both @Adam Williams and I work in the rail industry.

 

[Adam Williams]

TTL have seemingly retaliated by preventing me from making further bookings with them. Clearly a professional outfit.

 

[Watershed]

TTL have seemingly retaliated by preventing me from making further bookings with them. Clearly a professional outfit.

View attachment 123348

To be fair, I imagine that might just be a standard process for them, whereby if any booking is "charged back" then they block your account. That's quite common for online retailers.

That said, I don't think it's a huge loss and you could surely just create another account with a different email address!

 

[Adam Williams]

To be fair, I imagine that might just be a standard process for them, whereby if any booking is "charged back" then they block your account. That's quite common for online retailers.

Yeah, I imagine so - but it's frustrating when it's done without any discretion / consideration of who was actually in the right!

It's trivially bypassed just by using a credit card or alternative PayPal account, so doesn't really achieve a whole lot.

 

[Cdd89]

The irony is that there are plenty of actual fraudsters receiving significant refunds by requesting them only on occasions where their ticket is not scanned.

 

[miklcct]

The irony is that there are plenty of actual fraudsters receiving significant refunds by requesting them only on occasions where their ticket is not scanned.

The £10 admin fee has already rendered most short-haul tickets effectively non-refundable. How do they obtain significant refunds?

It's short-haul commuter trains where on-board ticket checks are very unlikely to take place.

 

[Cdd89]

The £10 admin fee has already rendered most short-haul tickets effectively non-refundable. How do they obtain significant refunds?

For one thing, the £10 admin fee is levied by the retailer and not all retailers charge it.

For another, many single tickets are >£10 (in part due to singles not being 50% of the cost of a return), so some amount can still be clawed back.

 

[Watershed]

The £10 admin fee has already rendered most short-haul tickets effectively non-refundable. How do they obtain significant refunds?

It's short-haul commuter trains where on-board ticket checks are very unlikely to take place.

Trainline doesn't charge the full £10 admin fee for all refunds. They charge a graduated fee.