Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[AlexNL]

Acceptance by Rock Rail SW is one thing; this doesn't necessarily mean that SWR have accepted the same units as well.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm sure they're not refusing them for no reason, yet we fail to receive regular updates on exactly why they're not being accepted. Are doors still opening? Are the shoes not picking up electricity? Are drivers having a sulk about how comfy the cab seat is?

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm sure they're not refusing them for no reason, yet we fail to receive regular updates on exactly why they're not being accepted. Are doors still opening? Are the shoes not picking up electricity? Are drivers having a sulk about how comfy the cab seat is?

16 units so far have been bought by the leasing company, ie taken into stock. That means those units are OK.

16 units is enough to operate the Windsor and Reading services plus three spares, so that seems a good start to me.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

16 units so far have been bought by the leasing company, ie taken into stock. That means those units are OK.

16 units is enough to operate the Windsor and Reading services plus three spares, so that seems a good start to me.

Yes, hopefully the TOC will accept those 16 and driver training will now hastily take place.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, hopefully the TOC will accept those 16 and driver training will now hastily take place.

It was mentioned on FB last week by someone seemingly in the know that 701017 (one of the units taken into stock) had SWR staff on board on its run around the Hounslow loop

 

[TEW]

It was mentioned on FB last week by someone seemingly in the know that 701017 (one of the units taken into stock) had SWR staff on board on its run around the Hounslow loop

Plenty of the test runs have had SWR staff onboard, doesn't necessarily indicate any progress.

 

[dctraindriver]

I'm sure they're not refusing them for no reason, yet we fail to receive regular updates on exactly why they're not being accepted. Are doors still opening? Are the shoes not picking up electricity? Are drivers having a sulk about how comfy the cab seat is?

Of all the many issues highlighted by GB drivers doing the testing, I’ve not heard about drivers sulking about how comfy the cab seat is. I can assure you a cab seat in a 455 or 458 isn’t good by any means, yet they’re out in service.

If the design of the seat and general working area is a concern, then rightfully it’s brought to the attention of those who make decisions about how to move this forward…..

 

[Goldfish62]

Plenty of the test runs have had SWR staff onboard, doesn't necessarily indicate any progress.

It clearly wasn't a test run as that's one of the units taken into stock having completed its fault free running.

 

[43096]

It clearly wasn't a test run as that's one of the units taken into stock having completed its fault free running.

Have the units been accepted by SWR, though? Could it be a test run for SWR as part of their acceptance?

 

[Peter Sarf]

It clearly wasn't a test run as that's one of the units taken into stock having completed its fault free running.

Could be testing if it is testing compatibility with a new route. Fingers crossed it is driver training instead.

 

[TEW]

I am pretty sure it was not any crew training.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Path in for this Wednesday which presumably is a 5-car 701 drag

Realtime Trains | 5Q10 1347 Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd | 02/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q10 1347 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd on 02/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

Could be testing if it is testing compatibility with a new route. Fingers crossed it is driver training instead.

They were route tested everywhere ages ago.

 

[Peter Sarf]

They were route tested everywhere ages ago.

Fingers crossed that kind of testing does not expire with time !.

 

[Goldfish62]

Acceptance by Rock Rail SW is one thing; this doesn't necessarily mean that SWR have accepted the same units as well.

Given that Rock Rail SW have bought them they will be eager to get rental from SWR. If they weren't sure that SWR would start paying up I would be surprised if they decided to buy the units from the manufacturer.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if SWR, ie the taxpayer, is paying leasing charges on these 16 units while we're all waiting for SWR to sort out its industrial relations issues so training can commence.

 

[Elorith]

The units still remain switched off with removable lamps attached in the sidings and depots when they're not going between Eastleigh/Derby etc. or out on test. I don't think anyone knows quite what, but there's definitely more than industrial relations issues going on here.

 

[Goldfish62]

The units still remain switched off with removable lamps attached in the sidings and depots when they're not going between Eastleigh/Derby etc. or out on test. I don't think anyone knows quite what, but there's definitely more than industrial relations issues going on here.

I thought that was the case with all Aventras pending design and fitment of new capacitor casings.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

The units still remain switched off with removable lamps attached in the sidings and depots when they're not going between Eastleigh/Derby etc. or out on test. I don't think anyone knows quite what, but there's definitely more than industrial relations issues going on here.

Can not comment on your specifics (genuinely do not know), but over a decade ago, it came as a bit of a surprise (bit of a shock) to some in the operations side to learn that even back then, there were certain areas of the network that couldn't cope with the electrical traction draw required for the plan as was in place at the time. Certain parts of the PDL and also the old race ground on the main line. Reading between the lines the Desiro fleet were a far more hungry eater of the juice than any 400 unit, except possibly the Reps? But got the impression this was kept very quiet at certain senior levels, whilst other initiatives required the operations side to increase formations to meet an ever increasing demand (at that time), say no more.

As for the newbie's on the block, may have overheard that further (storage) stabling space is now being investigated as spare capacity at sites on the network and elsewhere are now exhausted.........shame that years ago there seemed to be an almost irrational haste to sell off lesser used sidings/land for redevelopment etc. Those pigeons have a habit of always coming home............eventually !

 

[pompeyfan]

I’ve heard that driver training on 701s May commence next week, has anyone else heard similar?

 

[XCTurbostar]

I’ve heard that driver training on 701s May commence next week, has anyone else heard similar?

No paths have appeared on RTT but its about time.. maybe a Christmas miracle

 

[Elorith]

I’ve heard that driver training on 701s May commence next week, has anyone else heard similar?

I'd be stunned if that's true

 

[Goldfish62]

I'd be stunned if that's true

Why's that?

 

[JonathanH]

I'd be stunned if that's true

Why's that?

Multiple days affected by industrial action would be one reason.

 

[Goldfish62]

Multiple days affected by industrial action would be one reason.

Good point!!!!

 

[Elorith]

Why's that?

Would be completely out of the blue and wouldn't fit with other recent events at all. Quite a few drivers have/are being trained up on 707s recently to avoid depots being short for example, which isn't the kind of thing you'd do if 701 introduction was around the corner.

 

[Goldfish62]

Would be completely out of the blue and wouldn't fit with other recent events at all. Quite a few drivers have/are being trained up on 707s recently to avoid depots being short for example, which isn't the kind of thing you'd do if 701 introduction was around the corner.

If training starts next week I hardly think introduction is just around the corner. It would surely be Spring at the earliest and then a few months on from that before there were sufficient 701s diagrammed to displace the final 707s. And that doesn't take into account the need to take the 458s out of service for conversion.

 

[gmaguire]

It’s been noted that other Aventra type stock has actually entered service on a few networks, from what I can tell, relatively trouble-free.

Is it possible that it's the custom nature of the 701s which is causing the majority of the headaches? Maybe the people who originally designed the Aventra were contracted or no longer work for Bombardier, and Bombardier simply isn't competent in ironing out the problems which have come with the custom design. They have shown that they can deliver a reliable product using an established design such as the Electrostar.

I remember in 2016-ish a Canadian friend was messaging me about a situation that was suspiciously similar with Metrolinx and their LRT order with Bombardier. The custom LRTs were years later and riddled with faults when they arrived, to the point of being unusable. Yet Metrolinx had taken delivery of a more standard type of train around the same time, which went much more smoothly.

Metrolinx ended up cutting the order to I think less than half, and ordering the rest from another manufacturer.

 

[ashkeba]

It’s been noted that other Aventra type stock has actually entered service on a few networks, from what I can tell, relatively trouble-free.

The 720s passed testing fairly well but were Years late. The 701's differences definitely look to have caused further delay.

 

[Goldfish62]

The 720s passed testing fairly well but were Years late. The 701's differences definitely look to have caused further delay.

It's been documented that one of the major issues was very poor quality control and rushed production during the first year of Covid in an attempt to catch up with what was already late delivery.

Essentially Class 458 on steroids!

 

[amazon1675]

Unit 701049 was seen passing Winchester yesterday. Imagine a car manufacturer building a model riddled with a length of faults in this day and age ! One hopes the 5 car units are being built a bit better by now ? Just who sends them out the door at Derby fit for service?