Delay Repay claims rejected

[sot]

For example if a customer makes a Delay Repay claim while sat on a delayed train, and their destination station retains the ticket, the TOC should not be able to claim the customer should go back to the station and ask for the ticket to be fished out of the machine (!) in order to deface it.

I have initiated the delay repay this once or twice on a massive delay which was already over the threshold for a full refund of a return fare. Also a few helpful staff have fished the tickets out of the gateline for me.

I do have a few awful experiences of the system mind you, being declined on previous evening timetable change with an additional delay espite being on the original itinery.
Other times taking months to sort out the issue.

I perhaps should start asking explicitly for deadlock letters than repeatedly engaging in annoying correspondence with these TOCs.

Yorkie - do you have any beginner workshops coming up? I am afraid an advanced would be too steep of an entry point! I do have a reasonable background mind you.

 

[yorkie]

Yorkie - do you have any beginner workshops coming up? I am afraid an advanced would be too steep of an entry point! I do have a reasonable background mind you.

We had one a few weeks ago. But I'm too busy running fares data workshops at the moment, but if you reply to the following thread and also do the poll, I will aim to get back to you in a few weeks or so

Fares workshops

If there is sufficient interest, I will hold another of our free fares workshops this autumn. If anyone would like to join us, please reply to this thread. I'm open to suggestions on where we could hold it; please state in your reply what locations you could reach. We could cover any areas...

www.railforums.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2022 ==

I have initiated the delay repay this once or twice on a massive delay which was already over the threshold for a full refund of a return fare. Also a few helpful staff have fished the tickets out of the gateline for me.

I do have a few awful experiences of the system mind you, being declined on previous evening timetable change with an additional delay espite being on the original itinery.
Other times taking months to sort out the issue.

I perhaps should start asking explicitly for deadlock letters than repeatedly engaging in annoying correspondence with these TOCs.

Yes the problem of Delay Repay claims not being paid correctly and/or promptly/without quibble is absolutely endemic, sadly.

 

[sot]

We had one a few weeks ago. But I'm too busy running fares data workshops at the moment, but if you reply to the following thread and also do the poll, I will aim to get back to you in a few weeks or so

What a shame, where was it by the way?

If I was in a reasonable place for the data I would attend. Do you have say a mailing list when and where you plan to do them or do you plan them a little more adhoc?

 

[Kite159]

Interesting case for me with Greater Anglia, last week when using an outer boundary travelcard from Basingstoke and a BZ6 - Harlow Town day return. Outward journey was delayed by 20odd minutes, return delayed by 35 minutes. Both claims approved but they have paid more for the 15-29 minute delay than for the 30-59 minute delay.

Will send them an email asking how they worked that out (I presume using the cost of a 1-6 travelcard & the BZ ticket)

 

[WelshBluebird]

Had a fun one with GWR recently. Trains cancelled due to an unexploded wartime bomb, no rail replacement transport provided but ticket acceptance with the local bus company sorted. As it was in Devon, the bus took over 2.5 hours while the train takes just 1 hour, so I was almost two hours delayed at my destination. GWR initially claimed I was only delayed by 15 minutes and then rejected the appeal because it was a duplicate claim! Hopefully sorted on the phone with them today (won't believe it until I see it mind you!), turns out some of the systems had it as running but with a short delay and others had it showing as it was - cancelled, what a mess! Surely either there should be one source of truth or all systems should be in sync? How can a system show a train as having a short delay when it didn't even run?

 

[londonbridge]

Apologies if not strictly on topic, my latest claim with Northern hasn’t been approved/rejected as yet, but it’s gone past the twenty working days in which they said they’d respond, although I did get an email last week saying they were still looking at it.

 

[northwichcat]

Apologies if not strictly on topic, my latest claim with Northern hasn’t been approved/rejected as yet, but it’s gone past the twenty working days in which they said they’d respond, although I did get an email last week saying they were still looking at it.

I've also got a delayed Northern one. It's not yet as badly delayed as a XC one from June where they took two months to respond and then said they would pay compensation based on a 30-59 minute delay, when their train being 43 minutes late caused me to arrive at my destination 60 minutes late. I responded to that but haven't yet heard anything further other than they've reopened the case!

 

[Chiltern006]

Northern are taking a long time with their delay repays, submitted one on the 12th July. received the email of approval last week so a good 5/6 weeks. haven’t bothered to do any more since merely due to the length of time and the pitiful amount the delay is worth (normally a couple of quid)

 

[northwichcat]

Northern are taking a long time with their delay repays, submitted one on the 12th July. received the email of approval last week so a good 5/6 weeks. haven’t bothered to do any more since merely due to the length of time and the pitiful amount the delay is worth (normally a couple of quid)

Everyone seems to be. Are the same employees doing strike related refunds, and delay repay claims? That seems to be the only reasonable excuse.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Everyone seems to be. Are the same employees doing strike related refunds, and delay repay claims? That seems to be the only reasonable excuse.

I wouldn’t necessarily say everyone - South Western Railway approved my delay repay claim only one day after I submitted it without any issues.

 

[Haywain]

That seems to be the only reasonable excuse.

Most industries/businesses are suffering from staff shortages following the pandemic and the B word. This, alongside inreasing passenger numbers will have an impact.

 

[Hadders]

I wouldn’t necessarily say everyone - South Western Railway approved my delay repay claim only one day after I submitted it without any issues.

I agree SWR are good at the moment. I recently had a 2 hour delay claim processed, and the money in my bank account within 5 days.

 

[td97]

Everyone seems to be. Are the same employees doing strike related refunds, and delay repay claims? That seems to be the only reasonable excuse.

My strike refund was dealt with in 48hrs, but delay repays have been 1 month+ lately, so I expect not.
Surprising given one DR should be entirely automated for a Advance ticket on a cancelled service!

 

[Kite159]

My only over a month claim is with LNER for a simple 45 minute delay on an advance ticket from London to Doncaster back in early July.

Plus one with SWR trying to avoid paying out for a delay on a split ticket, paying out on the first ticket used but not the 2nd ticket.

 

[sheff1]

Northern are taking a long time with their delay repays, submitted one on the 12th July. received the email of approval last week so a good 5/6 weeks. haven’t bothered to do any more since merely due to the length of time and the pitiful amount the delay is worth (normally a couple of quid)

Northern's complimentary tickets can be worth a lot more than a couple of quid, often worth more than the full fare paid for the journey on which there was a delay e.g. a delay on a Selby to Sheffield journey got me a free return to Bridlington (and I could have travelled further if desired). Last time I claimed, the authorised complimentary ticket never arrived - when I contacted them about it they agreed to send me 2 to compensate for the further delay.

Of course complimentary tickets are no use if you do not intend to make any further journeys with Northern.

 

[py_megapixel]

Re. Northern: whenever a claim is decided, their system emails you with some waffle about "industry systems holding historic train running information". "System" must mean a computer system - not, say, a filing cabinet somewhere!

So if I submit a claim with an e-ticket that a computer can read, for a journey from the ticket origin to the ticket destination on the appropriate date by a permitted route, and these "industry systems" report that it was, in fact, actually delayed - why can't the computer automatically accept my claim almost instantly?

 

[35B]

Re. Northern: whenever a claim is decided, their system emails you with some waffle about "industry systems holding historic train running information". "System" must mean a computer system - not, say, a filing cabinet somewhere!

So if I submit a claim with an e-ticket that a computer can read, for a journey from the ticket origin to the ticket destination on the appropriate date by a permitted route, and these "industry systems" report that it was, in fact, actually delayed - why can't the computer automatically accept my claim almost instantly?

Because no one’s actually programmed the systems* to do the cross check?

* - note the second “s” in systems. That means they need to talk to each other, always more challenging than getting one to work on units own.

 

[northwichcat]

My strike refund was dealt with in 48hrs, but delay repays have been 1 month+ lately, so I expect not.
Surprising given one DR should be entirely automated for a Advance ticket on a cancelled service!

Could still be the same people, if they are told to prioritise refunds over delay repay. For non-delivery of a service there are more consumer laws that apply.

Re. Northern: whenever a claim is decided, their system emails you with some waffle about "industry systems holding historic train running information". "System" must mean a computer system - not, say, a filing cabinet somewhere!

So if I submit a claim with an e-ticket that a computer can read, for a journey from the ticket origin to the ticket destination on the appropriate date by a permitted route, and these "industry systems" report that it was, in fact, actually delayed - why can't the computer automatically accept my claim almost instantly?

Possibly they don't want to, so they can do anti-fraud checks? An automated check might miss that someone is trying to claim they were on multiple different services at the same time?

 

[35B]

Possibly they don't want to, so they can do anti-fraud checks? An automated check might miss that someone is trying to claim they were on multiple different services at the same time?

That ought to be one of the easier checks to automate.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Had a fun one with GWR recently. Trains cancelled due to an unexploded wartime bomb, no rail replacement transport provided but ticket acceptance with the local bus company sorted. As it was in Devon, the bus took over 2.5 hours while the train takes just 1 hour, so I was almost two hours delayed at my destination. GWR initially claimed I was only delayed by 15 minutes and then rejected the appeal because it was a duplicate claim! Hopefully sorted on the phone with them today (won't believe it until I see it mind you!), turns out some of the systems had it as running but with a short delay and others had it showing as it was - cancelled, what a mess! Surely either there should be one source of truth or all systems should be in sync? How can a system show a train as having a short delay when it didn't even run?

Quoting myself just to close up this issue. Turns out the guy I spoke to on the phone followed through in what he said and I've now had the correct delay repay paid. Glad it has been sorted but my questions about why it needed my intervention (and insistence that regardless of what the computer said, I know I was delayed by a hell of a lot more than 15 mins) still remain!

 

[bingleybong]

Just had a claim for when the marshlink fell apart Wednesday last week rejected as less than 15min delay despite it being more than 2 hours. I have resubmitted but notice that Southern provide no means of adding extra info so no doubt it will be rejected again (I suspect their system thinks I used a different route despite me putting all the legs in). CEO email next I guess since only that seems to get an even vaguely competent person to look at stuff.

EDIT: Now accepted on a third submission, this is the second time I have had this on Southern where the whole service has fallen apart yet a claim has been rejected out of hand the first time.

 

[johntea]

My friend bought a off peak day return eTicket from Normanton to Castleford today just before finding out the 13:55 was cancelled…along with the 14:55 due to signalling issues

They eventually caught the next running service at 16:03 (delayed 15:55), although their ticket was not inspected/scanned (don’t think this should affect a claim as long as they purchased the eTicket before 13:55 which they did)

Presumably this entitles them to claim for a 2+ hour delay and a 100% refund? (or the rather more lucrative two free Northern return tickets…)

It didn’t occur to them until after the event they could have probably caught a bus instead for 2 quid!

 

[_toommm_]

My friend bought a off peak day return eTicket from Normanton to Castleford today just before finding out the 13:55 was cancelled…along with the 14:55 due to signalling issues

They eventually caught the next running service at 16:03 (delayed 15:55), although their ticket was not inspected/scanned (don’t think this should affect a claim as long as they purchased the eTicket before 13:55 which they did)

Presumably this entitles them to claim for a 2+ hour delay and a 100% refund? (or the rather more lucrative two free Northern return tickets…)

It didn’t occur to them until after the event they could have probably caught a bus instead for 2 quid!

Yes they’ll be entitled to delay repay. Northern won’t ask for the scan unless your friend has made many dubious claims before, but at that point, they’d be investigating them anyway.

 

[MrJeeves]

I've recently had a delay repay claim denied by LNR.

I submitted it as 15+ minute delay from Birmingham New Street to Coventry at 22:53 on 4 Oct, with a smartcard ticket.

They came back and said they needed more info -- it seems like they had added new TfWM-related smartcard fares, so I updated my claim to show I had an nNetwork 1 week ticket on Swift.

They then rejected the claim later that day, claiming that the service in question was operated by Avanti, not LNR.

2Y84 is a West Midlands Train service (LNR) that departs BHM at 2253, arriving at Coventry at 2324. God knows how they came up with the conclusion that the service is operated by AWC, unless they thought I was on another service for some reason.

I have appealed the claim and am waiting to hear back.

 

[td97]

Northern are playing difficult with a current delay repay claim.
An on-the-day train cancellation led to the last leg of my journey being by replacement bus, causing a delay in the 15-29 minute bracket.
Their position (or at least the position of the manager in charge of my case) is that if rail replacement transport is provided, delay repay is measurable against the RRB schedule only. As the RRB was on time, no DR is payable.
This is nonsense and they have sent me a deadlock email and told me to go to the ombudsman. Which I will.

 

[Wolfie]

Northern are playing difficult with a current delay repay claim.
An on-the-day train cancellation led to the last leg of my journey being by replacement bus, causing a delay in the 15-29 minute bracket.
Their position (or at least the position of the manager in charge of my case) is that if rail replacement transport is provided, delay repay is measurable against the RRB schedule only. As the RRB was on time, no DR is payable.
This is nonsense and they have sent me a deadlock email and told me to go to the ombudsman. Which I will.

Any TOC behaving like that deserves everything that they get. Get your MP and the media involved too. Ensure that the manager is named personally.

 

[Watershed]

Northern are playing difficult with a current delay repay claim.
An on-the-day train cancellation led to the last leg of my journey being by replacement bus, causing a delay in the 15-29 minute bracket.
Their position (or at least the position of the manager in charge of my case) is that if rail replacement transport is provided, delay repay is measurable against the RRB schedule only. As the RRB was on time, no DR is payable.
This is nonsense and they have sent me a deadlock email and told me to go to the ombudsman. Which I will.

Unfortunately I wouldn't hold out high hopes for the Ombudsman. But it doesn't cost anything to use the Ombudsman, and it might be frowned upon (meaning you might not recover all of your costs) if you brought a legal claim without trying to resolve the matter through the Ombudsman first.

 

[3rd rail land]

Any TOC behaving like that deserves everything that they get. Get your MP and the media involved too. Ensure that the manager is named personally.

Absolutely do this in addition to going to the ombudsman. If all these avenues get you nowhere then I suggest filing a MCOL (money claim online). There is a fee for an MCOL but if successful you will get this back from Northern.
At this point it's far more about the principle of the matter than the monies involved.

 

[greyman42]

If you are delayed by not being able to board a train that is too full and you have to catch the next one, can you claim delay repay?

 

[Birmingham]

If you are delayed by not being able to board a train that is too full and you have to catch the next one, can you claim delay repay?

I know some TOCs have suggested customers do so in such circumstances.