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There are not enough 377/x sub-classes to number all the 387s as 377s AND keep sub-class demarcation unless 377/0 was taken up - and there is (or was) a good reason that I now forget why 377/0 is vacant.
375/0 375/1 375/2 were allegedly left vacant so the TOC could internally shorthand 4 digit numbers 50xx 51xx 52xx for 465s and 53xx upwards for 375s; I say allegedly as that theory falls down with 465/9 and 375/9, and for 6oxx with 466 and 376.
But there was something along that line within their TOC for 377s.
I was under the impression that there weren’t any 375/1s or /2s because the original combined electrostar order went from (375 or 377) /1 - /9 split between the South East and Southern. Of course the 377/5-7 wouldn’t have been planned initially. If extra electrostars had been ordered directly for Southeastern in the way they were for southern they probably would’ve ended using 375 /1 - /4
Yes Most. 377/6/7s have those awful ironing board seats as you've mentioned. in the 3+2 configuration in some of the 377s, the head cushioning is not present so can get close to an ironing board seats but still have some padding so it isn't too bad. The 377 regular seats are decent and rather comfortable to sit on although the fabric is quite rough and can cause some minor scratches if you rub a hang or so against it.
Unfortunately all 387s have ironing board seats as I'm sure you are aware of so can get quite uncomfortable if you are on a longer journey, hence why I avoid
Thameslink.
Why was the 387 even created in the first place? Couldn't they have continued the 377/6 family?
And on the flip side why was the 377/7 made anyway considering the 387 was coming out at a similar time and structurally they appear rather similar?
Yes Most. 377/6/7s have those awful ironing board seats as you've mentioned. in the 3+2 configuration in some of the 377s, the head cushioning is not present so can get close to an ironing board seats but still have some padding so it isn't too bad. The 377 regular seats are decent and rather comfortable to sit on although the fabric is quite rough and can cause some minor scratches if you rub a hang or so against it.
Unfortunately all 387s have ironing board seats as I'm sure you are aware of so can get quite uncomfortable if you are on a longer journey, hence why I avoid Thameslink.
....
I have only travelled on 377/x classes with 2+2 seating.
The first time I encountered the ' ironing board ' seats was Victoria <> Brighton. At the time I presumed a 387 but after finding out that 377/6/7 were ' ironing board ' fitted it could have been one of those if allocated.
An hour on the fast train is getting uncomfortable by the end never mind when delayed en-route by 30 minutes.
I thought Thameslink was now all class 700 - but of course again ' ironing board ' seats.
There was a lot of fuss and talk about the seats on the likes of the 377s, 387s and then 700s, but now it has died down. Perhaps everyone's backside has adapted!
So in terms of say a passenger was to compare taking a SN 377 with a GX 387, what is the material difference between the two (assuming the 377 was one of the /1s with just 2+2 seating), in terms of luggage space, seat quality, and also WiFi provision?
So in terms of say a passenger was to compare taking a SN 377 with a GX 387, what is the material difference between the two (assuming the 377 was one of the /1s with just 2+2 seating), in terms of luggage space, seat quality, and also WiFi provision?
The Gatwick Express 387/2s have never been Southern branded but they often work Southern branded services under the following circumstances:
* On the East Coastway, as a result of being spare
* When there is engineering work which means Gatwick Express is not running
* For positioning moves, on diagrams which otherwise work Gatwick Express services.
Typically, the passenger information displays show Southern Service (GX carriages). The OP was referring to exactly this kind of 'cross over' work.
387/2s have booked daily work on the East Coastway and from December will work all of the 1Gxx BTN-ORE services. They also work some West Coastway 2Uxx BTN - WWO services now. West Coastway work will increase next year once Driver knowledge increases. No plans for GX to go back to 4tph so theres enough spare to work Southern Services as they have done since the Dec 2019 Timetable change.
So in terms of say a passenger was to compare taking a SN 377 with a GX 387, what is the material difference between the two (assuming the 377 was one of the /1s with just 2+2 seating), in terms of luggage space, seat quality, and also WiFi provision?
Less luggage space on the early 377/1s. I don’t believe there are any luggage racks other than overhead. Not all that many table seats, (or at least compared to say /4s). Much like Southeastern units in that respect. No plugs. Not sure about wifi
I was under the impression that there weren’t any 375/1s or /2s because the original combined electrostar order went from (375 or 377) /1 - /9 split between the South East and Southern. Of course the 377/5-7 wouldn’t have been planned initially. If extra electrostars had been ordered directly for Southeastern in the way they were for southern they probably would’ve ended using 375 /1 - /4
379s have the revised body structure but are otherwise 375/377s.
The software on them is all the same - it is the TOC specific configs that are different - there being no need to multiple a 379 with a 377 or 375 therefore they appear to be seperate software.
Intra-377 and intra-375 and intra-375+377 software details that don't allow them to operate in traffic are actually trivial w.r.t. traction software - like PIS data, local GSM data, SDO. etc; they are fundamentally the same thing at the real gubbins level - they will all operate together.
The software on them is all the same - it is the TOC specific configs that are different - there being no need to multiple a 379 with a 377 or 375 therefore they appear to be seperate software.
Not sure about that, the 379s run a Linux based software whereas the rest of the electrostars run a Windows based one. The drivers interface looks different on the 379s.
387/2s have booked daily work on the East Coastway and from December will work all of the 1Gxx BTN-ORE services. They also work some West Coastway 2Uxx BTN - WWO services now. West Coastway work will increase next year once Driver knowledge increases. No plans for GX to go back to 4tph so theres enough spare to work Southern Services as they have done since the Dec 2019 Timetable change.
Saw 387 GX at Eastbourne working a Brighton service.
Feel sorry for those who has to sit on those seats for quite a while. Although as one mentioned peoples bottoms have evolved!
But why are they working it in the first place? If there is surplus stock replacing others where does the stock that originally operated the service go? Aren’t they now spare?
There was a lot of fuss and talk about the seats on the likes of the 377s, 387s and then 700s, but now it has died down. Perhaps everyone's backside has adapted!
No, we still hate them but no longer get the treat of a 365 or whatever so no point asking where they are and the whole topic has been discussed to deoth!
Why should there be /0s? There are no 170/0s. Some stock starts at /0, some at /1, some at /7.
The second point is irrelevant as you would not run out of subclasses until you got to 377/5s, which wouldn’t have been envisioned at that point.
There are various differences between earlier 377s and 387s as detailed in this thread. For differences between 377/6 and /7s and 387s, there aren’t many other than the number of carriages. If you want to know why they are numbered differently it is likely just down to the fact 387s were for thaneslink and 377s for southern. There’s not all that much logic to TOPS class allocations
If i was in charge i would class the 375/3 375/6 375/7 375/8 375/9 377/1 377/2 377/3 377/4 377/5 together as one class and class the 377/6 377/7 379/0 387/1 387/2 387/3 together as another class. That would make more sense.
Visually the 377/6 377/7 are very different to the 377 but identical to the 387 so the 387 classification would make more sense. I know it has been mentioned in this thread that 377/6 377/7 share more similarities to the 377 than 387 but that is just the technical and electrical parts. As far as the body and chassis the 377/6 377/7 are identical to the 387 trains.
Also other the than not having DOO cameras the 375 are identical to the 377 so it makes sense for all of them to be numbered together. Again there might by some software differences but physically they are the same exact identical train.
I would renumber all of the MK1 batch either all to 375 or all to 377 as follows:
375/0 or 377/0 - the current SE 375/3 trains
375/1 or 377/1 - the current SN 377/1 trains
375/2 or 377/2 - the current SN 377/2 trains
375/3 or 377/3 - the current SN 377/3 trains
375/4 or 377/4 - the current SN 377/4 trains
375/5 or 377/5 - the current SN 377/5 trains
375/6 or 377/6 - the current SE 375/6 trains
375/7 or 377/7 - the current SE 375/7 trains
375/8 or 377/8 - the current SE 375/8 trains
375/9 or 377/9 - the current SE 375/9 trains
I would renumber all of the MK2 batch to 387 as follows:
387/0 - the current AGA 379/0 trains
387/1 - the current GN/GWR/HX 387/1 trains
387/2 - the current GX 387/2 trains
387/3 - the current GN/C2C 387/3 trains
387/4 (or 387/6) - the current SN 377/6 trains
387/5 (or 387/7) - the current SN 377/7 trains
This numbering would certainly make a lot more sense in my opinion. It would keep one class for the MK1 Electrostar version and one class for the MK2 Electrostar version.
There is also the 357 which is basically a standard MK1 Electrostar but with a Turbostar front. And then the 376 which is a Capitalstar MK1 and the 378 which is a Capitalstar MK2 and these are built quite differently to the other Electrostar trains as they are mainly designed for urban work.
If i was in charge i would class the 375/3 375/6 375/7 375/8 375/9 377/1 377/2 377/3 377/4 377/5 together as one class and class the 377/6 377/7 379/0 387/1 387/2 387/3 together as another class. That would make more sense.
Visually the 377/6 377/7 are very different to the 377 but identical to the 387 so the 387 classification would make more sense. I know it has been mentioned in this thread that 377/6 377/7 share more similarities to the 377 than 387 but that is just the technical and electrical parts. As far as the body and chassis the 377/6 377/7 are identical to the 387 trains.
Also other the than not having DOO cameras the 375 are identical to the 377 so it makes sense for all of them to be numbered together. Again there might by some software differences but physically they are the same exact identical train.
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