Assault at Wigan Wallgate

[Typhoon]

Apologies if this has appeared elsewhere (but I could not find it. From the Metro https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/25/wiga...-workers-face-over-train-ticket-row-17634366/
It is long, so relevant parts:-

This is the horrifying moment an angry commuter brutally ‘caved in’ a train station guard’s face after being told he didn’t have the right ticket.

Michael Lucas launched the assault on Colin Spicer in February at Wigan Wallgate station after learning staff would not replace a £70 weekly pass he had lost earlier that day.

Footage showed the 32-year-old threatening Mr Spicer before pushing through the ticket barrier, grabbing him and punching him across the face before sauntering off.

...

Mr Spicer, 55, who was working on a zero hours contract for a security contractor, said the blow was so hard it was like being ‘struck by a baseball bat’.

The guard fell to the floor and suffered multiple ‘complex’ facial fractures including a broken jaw and fractures to his eye socket.

...

The RMT union helped raise £4,500 for Mr Spicer after learning he would receive little or no sick pay from his employers at Carlisle Support Service whilst off work with his injuries.

Thank you to those union members who put their hands in their pockets to help someone who is presumably not in their union; unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Mr Spicer's (misnamed) employers.
At a time when many unions are taking or balloting on industrial action (and getting opprobrium from certain sections of the public as a result), it is pleasing to be able to report an action that even the most militant anti-unionist will find grounds to criticise.

 

[DanNCL]

Whilst it’s understandable why someone would be frustrated by being told such a thing and perhaps a little blunt, assaulting someone is completely unacceptable. I hope this person is punished accordingly.

I wish Mr Spicer a speedy recovery from his injuries. I wouldn’t wish anything like this on anyone.

 

[185]

A reminder that a crook as big as the attacker was (OLR) Northern Trains Ltd & their (shoddy) contractor Carlisle Plc. Northern, despite the guy wearing their uniform pretty much said he's not our problem, it's a contractor.... and employer Carlisle Plc initially paid no sick pay, despite him being injured on the job, in a Northern Trains station.

Shows up greedy clowns like
i) Northern's MD Nicholas Donovan on >£300K per annum with his consultancy business ontop of that and
ii) Tory motormouth (Mr 3 passports) Lord Michael Ashcroft the owner of Carlisle Plc, who pays tax in Belize and hides his £1.6billion fortune on some rock near the Turks & Caicos.

 

[C J Snarzell]

This attack took place at my local train station and recently made the headlines in both the MEN and Wigan Today. The video of the attack is appaling to watch. No one should have to go to work and be assaulted. Thankfully, this human specimen has been given a two year prison sentence which at least shows the Courts have dealt with him appropriately.

CJ

 

[skyhigh]

Whilst it’s understandable why someone would be frustrated by being told such a thing and perhaps a little blunt

"Perhaps a little blunt"

So you were there, listening to the conversation then?

How do know the way it was phrased was "a little blunt"?

 

[DanNCL]

"Perhaps a little blunt"

So you were there, listening to the conversation then?

How do know the way it was phrased was "a little blunt"?

That’s not what I said. I’ll remind you:

Whilst it’s understandable why someone would be frustrated by being told such a thing and perhaps a little blunt, assaulting someone is completely unacceptable. I hope this person is punished accordingly.

I didn’t say anyone was blunt. I said it would be understandable why someone might be a little blunt in that situation, and that it was not acceptable to be violent. Meaning that if the customer wasn’t happy it would have been understandable if they’d maybe been a little blunt, but not understandable that they were violent.

I am not defending the customer, nor am I criticising the staff member.

Please read what I say properly before accusing me of saying stuff that I didn’t.

 

[Edsmith]

This really appalling and this is the sort of thing front line staff have to deal with and not just in the railway industry. And if he lost his pass why would he expect it to be replaced anyway? Whatever the rights and wrongs nothing justifies such violence and prison is the only place for the thug.

 

[43066]

Thank you to those union members who put their hands in their pockets to help someone who is presumably not in their union; unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Mr Spicer's (misnamed) employers.

Absolutely. Sadly, although the union threads around strike action attract all kinds of vitriol, gestures like this will be roundly ignored (or even criticised)… Another example I can think of is where ASLEF (or RMT, can’t remember which) tried to raise funds for the the staff members killed in the Stonehaven derailment, and certain posters on here attacked them for not raising funds for passengers .

It’s especially ironic when I’ve seen unions regularly vilified on here for when agency staff can’t get to work during industrial action etc. Completely missing the point that agency staff working under such terrible Ts and Cs would themselves most benefit from union membership…

Of course it all makes sense when it’s remembered that what really motivates certain posters is simply looking for reasons to stick the boot into the unions, rather than actually giving two hoots about the staff involved…

I said it would be understandable why someone might be a little blunt in that situation

Not really. I can’t think of many situations in life where someone buying something for £70 and then losing it has any right to be in the least bit “blunt” to anybody else. It’s entirely their own stupidity to blame.

 

[DanNCL]

Not really. I can’t think of many situations in life where someone buying something for £70 and then losing it has any right to be in the least bit “blunt” to anybody else. It’s entirely their own stupidity to blame.

You never know the reasons why someone might lose something. It isn’t always stupidity. For example, their bag could have been snatched from them with the pass in it. Indeed that happened to my mum a few months ago. Was she stupid for having her handbag violently ripped from her person by a drug addict?

Not saying that’s a reason for the ticket to be replaced for free by the TOC as it isn’t, but it is understandable why someone would be blunt in such circumstances, the amount of stress that must be going through them. Staff deserve respect, but at the same staff in roles like that are paid to deal with unhappy customers and that includes when they’re a bit blunt.

We obviously don’t know how or why this pass was lost, and as I’ve said before there was zero excuse for violence.

 

[43066]

You never know the reasons why someone might lose something. It isn’t always stupidity. For example, their bag could have been snatched from them with the pass in it. Indeed that happened to my mum a few months ago. Was she stupid for having her handbag violently ripped from her person by a drug addict?

If someone steals something from you then your quarrel is with the person who stole it (or possibly your insurance company). It isn’t on the supplier to replace it.

It’s an absolutely ridiculous and utterly irrelevant comparison in any case when, very obviously, that isn’t what happened here….

Not saying that’s a reason for the ticket to be replaced for free by the TOC as it isn’t, but it is understandable why someone would be blunt in such circumstances, the amount of stress that must be going through them. Staff deserve respect, but at the same staff in roles like that are paid to deal with unhappy customers and that includes when they’re a bit blunt.

“A bit blunt”… I’d love to see you come and try actually dealing with some of the disgusting, vile abuse (sometimes physical and sexual in nature) that my colleagues put up with on a daily basis.

If you did then perhaps your endless online criticisms and complaints might actually have some credibility…

 

[falcon]

You never know the reasons why someone might lose something. It isn’t always stupidity. For example, their bag could have been snatched from them with the pass in it. Indeed that happened to my mum a few months ago. Was she stupid for having her handbag violently ripped from her person by a drug addict?

Not saying that’s a reason for the ticket to be replaced for free by the TOC as it isn’t, but it is understandable why someone would be blunt in such circumstances, the amount of stress that must be going through them. Staff deserve respect, but at the same staff in roles like that are paid to deal with unhappy customers and that includes when they’re a bit blunt.

We obviously don’t know how or why this pass was lost, and as I’ve said before there was zero excuse for violence.

If in a hole.

 

[the sniper]

You never know the reasons why someone might lose something. It isn’t always stupidity. For example, their bag could have been snatched from them with the pass in it. Indeed that happened to my mum a few months ago. Was she stupid for having her handbag violently ripped from her person by a drug addict?

Not saying that’s a reason for the ticket to be replaced for free by the TOC as it isn’t, but it is understandable why someone would be blunt in such circumstances, the amount of stress that must be going through them. Staff deserve respect, but at the same staff in roles like that are paid to deal with unhappy customers and that includes when they’re a bit blunt.

We obviously don’t know how or why this pass was lost, and as I’ve said before there was zero excuse for violence.

Do we know that they ever even had a pass...? This isn't the Fares Advice & Policy section, so we needn't take the side of the 'victim'.

 

[DanNCL]

If someone steals something from you then your quarrel is with the person who stole it (or possibly your insurance company). It isn’t on the supplier to replace it.

It’s an absolutely ridiculous and utterly irrelevant comparison in any case when, very obviously, that isn’t what happened here….

The point I am making is if something like that were to happen, it would be understandable why they were blunt. If you’ve been through trauma like that, you should understand.

Did I say it was on the supplier to replace it? No
Did I say theft was what happened here? No

“A bit blunt”… I’d love to see you come and try actually dealing with some of the disgusting, vile abuse (sometimes physical and sexual in nature) that my colleagues put up with on a daily basis.

If you did then perhaps your endless online criticisms and complaints might actually have some credibility…

I have dealt with all sorts of abuse from customers in my short but busy life so far including a knife attack so I won’t take any lectures from anyone when it comes to ‘not understanding’ the level of abuse those in public facing roles often have to put up with. Just because I don’t work on the railway doesn’t mean I haven’t got any experience in public facing roles.

You do not know me, you do not know what I have and haven’t done in my life, you do not have the right to throw the level of at times abhorrent and unnecessary criticism at me that you do at every single chance you get, simply for daring to express an opinion different to yours.

Do we know that they ever even had a pass...? This isn't the Fares Advice & Policy section, so we needn't take the side of the 'victim'.

I’ve literally said I’m *not* defending the customer.

 

[Wolfie]

Thank you to those union members who put their hands in their pockets to help someone who is presumably not in their union; unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Mr Spicer's (misnamed) employers.
At a time when many unions are taking or balloting on industrial action (and getting opprobrium from certain sections of the public as a result), it is pleasing to be able to report an action that even the most militant anti-unionist will find grounds to criticise.

Only just saw this - have been in hospital so dipping in and out at best - as a fellow TU member l can only respect the actions of those RMT members.

Absolutely disgusting though, the attitude of the employers. The word scum comes to mind.

Also glad to hear that the "person" who did this has been banged up. Hopefully a civil action for compensation to follow. Hurt the scumbag hard.

 

[the sniper]

The point I am making is if something like that were to happen, it would be understandable why they were blunt. If you’ve been through trauma like that, you should understand.

It wouldn't be understandable, it'd be unacceptable. Such self-centred entitlement to be 'blunt' should be considered toxic within a civilised society.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Raising money for this poor guy is clearly to be applauded. But I don’t think that means (for example) that maintenance teams shouldn’t be mixed or that walks to break rooms shouldn’t be reasonably timed, or that those suggesting otherwise are being militant.

 

[43066]

The point I am making is if something like that were to happen, it would be understandable why they were blunt. If you’ve been through trauma like that, you should understand.

No it absolutely wouldn’t. Being traumatised, however badly, doesn’t give anyone the right to take that out on other innocent parties. Lest of all bully people in customer facing roles who are a soft target because they can’t answer back…. The fact you don’t seem to see that means there’s little point in discussing it further.

I have dealt with all sorts of abuse from customers in my short but busy life so far including a knife attack so I won’t take any lectures from anyone when it comes to ‘not understanding’ the level of abuse those in public facing roles often have to put up with. Just because I don’t work on the railway doesn’t mean I haven’t got any experience in public facing roles.

That’s not the impression you give on here. This thread is not about you, so I’ll leave it there!

It wouldn't be understandable, it'd be unacceptable. Such self-centred entitlement to be 'blunt' should be considered toxic within a civilised society.

Absolutely. Unfortunately self entitled, toddler like behaviour such as that displayed in the news article is getting worse and worse. Funny how these big meltdowns where people “lose control” just so happen to always be directed at those who are seen as non threatening and unable to fight back….

 

[DanNCL]

It wouldn't be understandable, it'd be unacceptable. Such self-centred entitlement to be 'blunt' should be considered toxic within a civilised society.

So, not understanding what may be going through someone’s head, you automatically assume they’re self-centred and entitled if at any point they’re blunt? People’s incorrect actions are often understandable, it doesn’t make them right, but it doesn’t automatically make them self-centred or entitled either.

I will repeat that at no point am I defending the customer here.

No it absolutely wouldn’t. Being traumatised, however badly, doesn’t give anyone the right to take that out on other innocent parties. Lest of all bully people in customer facing roles because they can’t answer back…. The fact you don’t seem to see that means there’s little point in discussing it further.

I didn’t say it was right, I said it was Understandable. Understandable means you can understand why someone may act a certain way, not necessarily that you think it’s right.

 

[Sprinter107]

I hope that member of staff feels well soon. So sorry to hear of this. I've seen and heard of a few nasty assaults across the years to my colleagues, ive been on the receiving end of a couple, but that one seems particularly nasty. While they've always happened, they do seem to be increasing in number ive noticed over the last 3 years or so. Good on the RMT too for their kind gesture.

 

[zwk500]

So, not understanding what may be going through someone’s head, you automatically assume they’re self-centred and entitled if at any point they’re blunt? People’s incorrect actions are often understandable, it doesn’t make them right, but it doesn’t automatically make them self-centred or entitled either.
I didn’t say it was right, I said it was Understandable. Understandable means you can understand why someone may act a certain way, not necessarily that you think it’s right.

This 'blunt' thing isn't helping you. He wasn't a bit short with the staff member, he punched them with sufficient force to break their skull. No matter what somebody might be going through, there's no excuses, understanding or sympathy for somebody who does that.

The 28 month custodial sentence he received was, if anything, a little bit light. Hopefully he receives some anger management therapy whilst inside, along with any other help he might need.

 

[DanNCL]

This 'blunt' thing isn't helping you. He wasn't a bit short with the staff member, he punched them with sufficient force to break their skull. No matter what somebody might be going through, there's no excuses, understanding or sympathy for somebody who does that.

The 28 month custodial sentence he received was, if anything, a little bit light. Hopefully he receives some anger management therapy whilst inside, along with any other help he might need.

I never said this person was!! This customer was unquestionably wrong.

I agree the 28 months prison sentence isn’t enough, especially as he’ll probably be let out early for ‘good behaviour’

 

[Trackman]

I never said this person was!! This customer was unquestionably wrong.

I agree the 28 months prison sentence isn’t enough, especially as he’ll probably be let out early for ‘good behaviour’

Could have been worse, I expecting a suspended or a 3 months custodial or even a community or something until I read the end of the news article.

I hope that member of staff feels well soon. So sorry to hear of this.

My sentiments too.

 

[Mag_seven]

This is clearly an awful incident so we will draw discussion of it to a halt as a matter of respect for all those involved.