S Stock display and PA OOU

[jumble]

Yesterday there were some quite bewildered passengers at Kings Cross Met and H and C platform
The train I took from Rayners had neither the internal displays nor the internal displays and the PA was not working and there were no platform announcements
The destination boards at Kings cross are out of action as well so someone standing there has no idea where the train is going
Is this even legal under RVAR regulations ?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yesterday there were some quite bewildered passengers at Kings Cross Met and H and C platform
The train I took from Rayners had neither the internal displays nor the internal displays and the PA was not working and there were no platform announcements
The destination boards at Kings cross are out of action as well so someone standing there has no idea where the train is going
Is this even legal under RVAR regulations ?

Bakerloo and Central line stock do not even have internal displays, so I question whether or not its an illegal practice to operate an S Stock set without internal displays working. It's worth remembering that the regulations for National Rail stock and London Underground stock differ - otherwise I imagine the horrible 1972 stock would have had significant changes or replacement by now.

 

[Dstock7080]

Sadly a regular fault with S Stock.
The driver should have been making regular PAs, if these were not available then the train should be out of service.

The fix is usually an MCB under the middle car, which drivers have no access to. A train technician is required but are rarely available.
in non-CBTC areas the driver can try something else but if its the above MCB it would not rectify that.

 

[philthetube]

The driver may not have been aware

 

[jumble]

Bakerloo and Central line stock do not even have internal displays, so I question whether or not its an illegal practice to operate an S Stock set without internal displays working. It's worth remembering that the regulations for National Rail stock and London Underground stock differ - otherwise I imagine the horrible 1972 stock would have had significant changes or replacement by now.

at.

Sorry to confuse
The external displays were out as well so there was no clue at Kings X what the train was
Of course at Rayners I had nor idea if it was Aldgate or Baker St until I saw the boards at HOTH

 

[XAM2175]

Is this even legal under RVAR regulations ?

Bakerloo and Central line stock do not even have internal displays, so I question whether or not its an illegal practice to operate an S Stock set without internal displays working. It's worth remembering that the regulations for National Rail stock and London Underground stock differ ...

As the OP suggests, accessibility provisions on London Underground vehicles are governed by the Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Non-Interoperable Rail System) Regulations 2010 (SI 2010/432).

The absence of internal displays on the Bakerloo and Central lines is permitted by specific exemptions, detailed in the Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Non-Interoperable Rail System) (London Underground Bakerloo Line 72 Tube Stock) Exemption Order 2019 and the Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Non-Interoperable Rail System) (Central Line 92 Tube Stock) Exemption Order 2019 respectively:

Exemptions relating to facilities for disabled persons
3. An exempt vehicle is authorised to be used for carriage ... even if it does not conform to, or is used in a manner that does not conform to, one or more of the following requirements of the following paragraphs in Part 1 of Schedule 1 to the 2010 Regulations—
... paragraph 11(1) (public address system for audible and visual announcements); ...

There are certain exemptions for the S-stock, but none that allow for operation without a PA system or internal displays.

That said, it's unlikely that temporary failures here and there would be regarded as actionable non-compliance.

 

[D365]

The fix is usually an MCB under the middle car, which drivers have no access to. A train technician is required but are rarely available.
in non-CBTC areas the driver can try something else but if its the above MCB it would not rectify that.

Yes - a total 'failure' is caused by, more often than not, a tripped breaker. But on a multiple unit, unless the breaker is in the cab anyway, only some are 'remote resettable'.

 

[Egg Centric]

horrible 1972 stock

Rinse your mouth out lad!

You'll miss it when it's gone.

 

[Segedunum]

Exactly the same thing has just happened again at King's Cross.

PIDs not working on the platform, blank displays on the train, driver keeping schtum.

Thankfully screens at Farringdon confirmed I guessed correctly that this is a Circle Line service...

 

[321over360]

As the OP suggests, accessibility provisions on London Underground vehicles are governed by the Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Non-Interoperable Rail System) Regulations 2010 (SI 2010/432).

The absence of internal displays on the Bakerloo and Central lines is permitted by specific exemptions, detailed in the Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Non-Interoperable Rail System) (London Underground Bakerloo Line 72 Tube Stock) Exemption Order 2019 and the Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Non-Interoperable Rail System) (Central Line 92 Tube Stock) Exemption Order 2019 respectively:


There are certain exemptions for the S-stock, but none that allow for operation without a PA system or internal displays.

That said, it's unlikely that temporary failures here and there would be regarded as actionable non-compliance.

Thats weird cos I've been on many Central Line carriages where the announcements don't actually play but do in neighbouring carriages as you can hear them when at a station so there is trains running where the announcements are semi operational on the trainb