Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.

[Spamcan81]

About time. That was vampiric given younger people are locked out of capital. One in five pensioners are living in households where they are asset millionaires.

But they can't spend that asset unless they sell it.

 

[najaB]

But they can't spend that asset unless they sell it.

They can always borrow against it.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

PMQs are about to start. This is really the last chance for Truss to save her job: if she can get her MPs cheering and waving their order papers, she might be given time to sort things out, if she can. A lacklustre performance and she is one of the walking dead: it is just a question of how long.

She did a pretty good job because the opposition were so poor in their questioning trying to humiliate her and score points. Blackford, usually reliable, walked into a bear trap over the triple lock pensions which you could tell by Hunts expression had been totally engineered to create the opportunity for her along with planted tory questions.

Suspect she will now last a little longer as a result of today and everyday she stays the past gets put behind her and she may well go for longer than people want because the Tories don't have a clear person so the factions may well feel better to have control over her than have the wrong wing of the party as a replacement.

 

[brad465]

She did a pretty good job because the opposition were so poor in their questioning trying to humiliate her and score points. Blackford, usually reliable, walked into a bear trap over the triple lock pensions which you could tell by Hunts expression had been totally engineered to create the opportunity for her along with planted tory questions.

Suspect she will now last a little longer as a result of today and everyday she stays the past gets put behind her and she may well go for longer than people want because the Tories don't have a clear person so the factions may well feel better to have control over her than have the wrong wing of the party as a replacement.

Until the vote on fracking comes along that is reported be used as a confidence vote in the government, with a three-line whip in place. Vote for it, and expect rival candidates to use that on election posters in local constituencies affected, vote against it, and Truss loses what is seen as a confidence vote.

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1582672374369226753

NEW. It never rains it pours. Just sent this from source. Message form deputy chief whip. The motion on fracking “is a confidence motion in the govt” Hard three line whip. All slips withdrawn

 

[swt_passenger]

After all she is technically PM with completely undemocratic means

So just like Gordon Brown then.

 

[duncanp]

Thank you, Liz. Thank you, Kwasi.

Yes, if only we could re-join the European Union, we could enjoy the benefits of belonging to this august organisation, where September's inflation rate was, er, 10.9%.

This figure of 10.9% is of course an average, with the lowest rate being in France (6.2%) and the highest in Estonia (24.5%)

 

[oldman]

Its actually higher if you include all wealth- The data also shows that one in four people aged over 65 (25%) lived in a household with a total wealth of over a million pounds.

This includes pension rights, which diminish as you get older, as well as real property and investments.

 

[brad465]

So just like Gordon Brown then.

My thinking on changing PM mid-term is that it's okay to avoid an election if the successor generally keeps to the original manifesto, something Truss definitely didn't. But even putting that aside, should Truss be ousted soon, then changing PM twice without an election is a definite no-go I think, especially where scandal involving the PM(s) contributed to their downfall.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2022 ==

Yes, if only we could re-join the European Union, we could enjoy the benefits of belonging to this august organisation, where September's inflation rate was, er, 10.9%.

This figure of 10.9% is of course an average, with the lowest rate being in France (6.2%) and the highest in Estonia (24.5%)

Yes, neoliberalism isn't working after all, something all countries here have in common (and for the record, I'm not endorsing socialism or communism, I'd prefer we look for a new approach that addresses 21st century challenges).

 

[swt_passenger]

My thinking on changing PM mid-term is that it's okay to avoid an election if the successor generally keeps to the original manifesto, something Truss definitely didn't. But even putting that aside, should Truss be ousted soon, then changing PM twice without an election is a definite no-go I think, especially where scandal involving the PM(s) contributed to their downfall.

I’d agree. I just think that Labour can’t exactly claim that it’s a new thing to change leader between elections.

 

[stevetay3]

She did a pretty good job because the opposition were so poor in their questioning trying to humiliate her and score points. Blackford, usually reliable, walked into a bear trap over the triple lock pensions which you could tell by Hunts expression had been totally engineered to create the opportunity for her along with planted tory questions.

Suspect she will now last a little longer as a result of today and everyday she stays the past gets put behind her and she may well go for longer than people want because the Tories don't have a clear person so the factions may well feel better to have control over her than have the wrong wing of the party as a replacement.

I would hate to see her on a bad day then, oh sorry I forgot about Monday

 

[david1212]

Those who will decide on the pension increases need to think of the bigger picture.

The group who have no or little additional income are one end of the scale. At the other end are those with a significant ongoing pension income from an employer scheme and/or personal scheme for and increase of ~£500 rather than ~£1000 is not significant.

Having a high household weath does not necessarily also mean a significant additional income though. For inheritance wealth the prudent are likely to see themselves as caretakers and/or see it as being the only way their children can get on the housing ownership ladder. End of life care cost is another factor that can decimate inheritance.

In between are those with a modest additional income who may well budget with the state pension covering essentials and the additional income leisure. This is how I am, or rather was, planning my retirement budgeting. Make a real cut to the state pension and the leisure has to be cut. That would hit hotels & holiday accommodation, food bought out from a three course meal to a couple of coffees, visits to heritage e.g. stately homes, museums, railways. All these are already struggling and weekdays outside school holidays the main income can be from the retired.

Now Hunt has add uncertainty about the current energy unit price cap continuing beyond April 2023 instead of definitely to April 2025, or was it to be September 2024 ?, that will curtail non-essential spending plans for 2023 too.

 

[duncanp]

Now Hunt has add uncertainty about the current energy unit price cap continuing beyond April 2023 instead of definitely to April 2025, or was it to be September 2024 ?, that will curtail non-essential spending plans for 2023 too.

I think there will be some form of energy price support after April next year, because if not current projections show a price increase of about 75%.

This will alienate many Conservative voters, and is therefore politically unacceptable. (to the government, that is)

 

[AlterEgo]

But they can't spend that asset unless they sell it.

If you’re retired in an £800,000 house you paid off before young people were mostly locked out of capital, you should, actually, be forced to downsize or borrow.

Why should young people stuck renting subsidise these people? Triple lock should have gone in the bin years ago. The social settlement for most young people in their 20s in grossly unfair.

 

[nw1]

Yes, if only we could re-join the European Union, we could enjoy the benefits of belonging to this august organisation, where September's inflation rate was, er, 10.9%.

This figure of 10.9% is of course an average, with the lowest rate being in France (6.2%) and the highest in Estonia (24.5%)

I didn't say anything at all about rejoining the EU in my comment. It was purely a criticism of the current leadership.

 

[dosxuk]

My thinking on changing PM mid-term is that it's okay to avoid an election if the successor generally keeps to the original manifesto, something Truss definitely didn't. But even putting that aside, should Truss be ousted soon, then changing PM twice without an election is a definite no-go I think, especially where scandal involving the PM(s) contributed to their downfall.

Not keeping to the commitments the party was elected on is much more an issue worth calling a new election over than them changing what is supposed to be a figurehead. That Truss was able to rip up the rulebook on how the countries economy is managed with zero electoral mandate is far more concerning to me than she might be replaced by another MP in the coming hours/days/weeks. If she wanted to make such a (predictably disastrous) change in direction, she absolutely should have gone to the electorate to get backing.

While there are (good) arguments that a government should be free to change their mind on manifesto commitments to take into account changing circumstances during their term, this is not an example of such, this was a political decision which did not have to be implemented at this time or in this manner.

 

[nw1]

So just like Gordon Brown then.

We're not talking about the rights and wrongs of Gordon Brown, we're talking specifically about Truss.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2022 ==

She did a pretty good job because the opposition were so poor in their questioning trying to humiliate her and score points. Blackford, usually reliable, walked into a bear trap over the triple lock pensions which you could tell by Hunts expression had been totally engineered to create the opportunity for her along with planted tory questions.

Hunt's expression? Doubtless smug and sneering.

 

[duncanp]

I didn't say anything at all about rejoining the EU in my comment. It was purely a criticism of the current leadership.

My point was that the pressures that are causing inflation to rise in the UK are also being felt across Western Europe and North America.

If we had different Conservative Prime Minister, or even if we had a Labour government, I very much doubt whether inflation would be substantially lower.

 

[nw1]

My point was that the pressures that are causing inflation to rise in the UK are also being felt across Western Europe and North America.

If we had different Conservative Prime Minister, or even if we had a Labour government, I very much doubt whether inflation would be substantially lower.

So why has it gone up now, immediately after this happened?

 

[eMeS]

Truss seemed to have regained some of her confidence at today's PMQs - I wonder if this will last?

 

[nw1]

Truss seemed to have regained some of her confidence at today's PMQs - I wonder if this will last?

Hopefully the opposition won't let it last.

The honourable thing would be to admit you're useless in the job, and resign - not arrogantly stay on like you're entitled to it.

 

[stevetay3]

If you’re retired in an £800,000 house you paid off before young people were mostly locked out of capital, you should, actually, be forced to downsize or borrow.

Why should young people stuck renting subsidise these people? Triple lock should have gone in the bin years ago. The social settlement for most young people in their 20s in grossly unfair.

How are young people subsiding pensioners, we paid for a pension whilst working all are lives probably subsiding others along the way. We can not go out and get a job if ill or disabled , as a Tory minister said recently to working age people “ if you can not manage get a better job to improve your income ,we pensioners have no choice but to accept whats thrown at us over and over. I haven’t had a rise since retirement five years ago.

 

[Magdalia]

But they can't spend that asset unless they sell it.

That's not correct. They can borrow against the asset and spend the loan.

 

[nw1]

What about Braverman ranting on about "woke tofu-eating Guardian readers"?

Is this really an appropriate attitude to take for a Home Secretary?

Again it shows that Truss either is an appalling judge of character or actively wanted to put a reactionary, Meloni-like right-winger in the post - and the latter is definitely not good.

 

[dosxuk]

Just as you think things are starting to return to some sort of normality, they start suspending the spads... Truss' personal advisor has been suspended pending investigation by the Proprietary and Ethics Team around the briefings that were conducted over the weekend.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63311454

The last line of that article is quite revealing too...

Before joining Downing Street, Jason Stein used to work as a communications adviser to Prince Andrew.

 

[MikeWM]

Not keeping to the commitments the party was elected on is much more an issue worth calling a new election over than them changing what is supposed to be a figurehead. That Truss was able to rip up the rulebook on how the countries economy is managed with zero electoral mandate is far more concerning to me than she might be replaced by another MP in the coming hours/days/weeks. If she wanted to make such a (predictably disastrous) change in direction, she absolutely should have gone to the electorate to get backing.

People keep saying this, but I still don't see anything that was in the 'mini-budget' that contradicted the text of, or was against the spirit of, the 2019 manifesto.

Also as I've pointed out a number of times, the previous budget *did* do something (raising of NI) that was very explicitly against both the letter and the spirit of the 2019 manifesto, and I don't recall any calls for a GE then.

Now we're apparently turning to 'austerity' again, which *is* very much *against* the spirit of the 2019 manifesto. I agree we need a GE if we're going to go down that route.

--

So why has it gone up now, immediately after this happened?

Food prices continue to rise, and the consensus appears to be that this is the cause.

 

[Simon11]

How are young people subsiding pensioners, we paid for a pension whilst working all are lives probably subsiding others along the way. We can not go out and get a job if ill or disabled , as a Tory minister said recently to working age people “ if you can not manage get a better job to improve your income ,we pensioners have no choice but to accept whats thrown at us over and over. I haven’t had a rise since retirement five years ago.

Looking at my parents, they worked hard to purchase a family home for £300,000 over 25 years ago. They have replaced the kitchen, balcony and toilets but not increase the size of the home. Their home is now worth over £1,300,000 for honestly not doing much. Their property has brought in a similar income, than their own income before tax!

As a result of the silly house prices, for me to purchase a family home, an hour commute from London, I am now staring down the barrel with a 35 year mortgage and over half a million in debt to pay off on top of lots of bills such as university fees which our parents escaped from. Hopefully property prices stablise over the next few decades, so our children have some chance to purchase something and not stuff the next generation.

Then, I could talk about the far better pensions that our parents had in the past which hardly anyone is able to get now.

 

[AlterEgo]

How are young people subsiding pensioners

Well they pay for this year’s state pension for a start.

, we paid for a pension

Not your own state pension you didn’t. When you paid NI when working that was to pay for retired pensioners at the time.

whilst working all are lives probably subsiding others along the way.

“Subsidising others”, who? Pensioners at the time?

We can not go out and get a job if ill or disabled , as a Tory minister said recently to working age people “ if you can not manage get a better job to improve your income ,we pensioners have no choice but to accept whats thrown at us over and over. I haven’t had a rise since retirement five years ago.

So why should the triple lock on pensions still be a thing when most people of working age - that is, the people who pay your state pension right now - are getting stiffed with below inflation rises or none at all?

 

[duncanp]

How are young people subsiding pensioners, we paid for a pension whilst working all are lives probably subsiding others along the way. We can not go out and get a job if ill or disabled , as a Tory minister said recently to working age people “ if you can not manage get a better job to improve your income ,we pensioners have no choice but to accept whats thrown at us over and over. I haven’t had a rise since retirement five years ago.

And if pensioners were forced to downsize, they would have a lot of extra capital, which no doubt whichever government was in power would love to get their grubby little mitts on.

The rise in house prices has been, to soem extent, caused by a lot of cheap money sloshing around the financial system since the crisis in 2008.

This has caused many people to borrow large sums of money (ie buy to let landlords) on the assumption that interest rates and inflation will remain low for the long term.

If inflation continues at current levels, there is going to be a big downward correction in house prices fairly soon (just as there was in the early 1990s recession - my flat in London dropped in value by 40%) which will ulimately benefit young people.

As far getting rid of the triple lock, I concede that there is a case for this, although whatever system is put in its place should try to ensure that the state pension maintains its purchasing power.

What would be the ultimate injustice to the younger generation would be if their entitlement to the state pension is reduced or withdrawn completely, having paid national insurance contributions all their lives in the expectation that they would have a reasonable pension in retirement.

 

[stevetay3]

Watching parliament on tv now, they are debating the economic situation in this country. There is only a handful of MPs attending this debate. They will all most likely be back later to vote not having herd what has been said, how can they make vital decisions in this way. No wonder this country is a laughing stock.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2022 ==

AlterEgo. You really need to learn how pensions work. People in work now are contributing to pay pensions now, All through my life I contributed to pay the pensions of people in that period in time . Each generation is paying towards the next no one is subsiding anyone. Yes i did subside others the s**s who refuse to work

 

[najaB]

If we had different Conservative Prime Minister, or even if we had a Labour government, I very much doubt whether inflation would be substantially lower.

The issue isn't the current rate of inflation, but more that it's predicted to stay high well into next year when other economies hare expected to be past the worst of it. Similar to how our recession is expected to be more severe than other major economies (Russia excepted).

If you’re retired in an £800,000 house you paid off before young people were mostly locked out of capital, you should, actually, be forced to downsize or borrow.

I don't believe that anyone should be forced to sell, but it should definitely be made easier and encouraged.