Will flats miss out on full fibre?

[johncrossley]

Various companies are building full fibre networks at the moment, and in many areas that means full fibre will be available through them before Openreach. One of those companies is building in my area. However when I put my postcode into their availability checker it says they don't have permission from the landlord to build full fibre at the property. I then checked various other blocks of flats in my area and they all have the same message. Are flats likely to miss out on full fibre because of this? We already don't get cable because the residents objected to cables up the wall back in the 90s and now cable networks aren't being extended.

 

[Magdalia]

I live in a new apartment block and it was built with full fibre.

We already don't get cable because the residents objected to cables up the wall back in the 90s and now cable networks aren't being extended.

I also lived in a block of flats when cable was being rolled out. Each leaseholder owned a share in the management company which owned the freehold for the whole block. When cable was rolled out we had the whole block done with cables on the outside walls but concealed in trunking that matched the colour of the bricks. The cable company paid for that.

I suspect that installing full fibre to an existing building would be more disruptive and expensive than cable. Can fibre go on the outside walls or does it have to go inside?

 

[dgl]

Fibre is probably easier than CO-AX cable in some respects and certainly shouldn't be difficult to do, not as easy to terminate as coax so there is that issue, and bend radius' are more important but that's no big issue. Fixing it to the outside of a building is no problem either, with products designed for that use.
The only issue I can foresee is the amount of different fibre companies being set up, each will probably want to use their own cable which will complicate matters

 

[Pete_uk]

Ultimately no as the whole 'phone' network will go fiber

 

[johncrossley]

I also lived in a block of flats when cable was being rolled out. Each leaseholder owned a share in the management company which owned the freehold for the whole block. When cable was rolled out we had the whole block done with cables on the outside walls but concealed in trunking that matched the colour of the bricks. The cable company paid for that.

I suspect that installing full fibre to an existing building would be more disruptive and expensive than cable. Can fibre go on the outside walls or does it have to go inside?

I was told the residents objected (it was before I moved here) because it wouldn't look nice, but a communal satellite system could be installed without cables on the walls so they chose that. Unfortunately, they were not willing to convert it to digital so after the analogue satellite service was switched off we were left with just Freeview TV and when fast cable internet arrived we were not able to use it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2022 ==

Ultimately no as the whole 'phone' network will go fiber

I thought they are keeping copper between the fibre cabinet and the home for those who don't order full fibre? You just need some kind of VOIP connection once the analogue phone system is switched off, and the existing Fibre to the Cabinet service can be used for that.

 

[najaB]

Are flats likely to miss out on full fibre because of this? We already don't get cable because the residents objected to cables up the wall back in the 90s and now cable networks aren't being extended.

That entirely depends on landlords.

Ultimately no as the whole 'phone' network will go fiber

That's incorrect. There are a lot of properties that will continue to be served by Openreach FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) or FTTN (Fibre to the Node) rather than full FTTP (Fibre to the Premises).

 

[WelshBluebird]

New flat blocks will likely be built with fibre from day one (either BT openreach or a third party like Hyperoptic). Older blocks may well be left behind though. I live in such a block literally ten minutes walk from Bristol city centre but can't even get FFTC, let alone anything fully to the property.

That entirely depends on landlords.

Or more likely property management companies like the one that manage the block I live in on behalf of the freeholders.

 

[johncrossley]

New flat blocks will likely be built with fibre from day one (either BT openreach or a third party like Hyperoptic). Older blocks may well be left behind though. I live in such a block literally ten minutes walk from Bristol city centre but can't even get FFTC, let alone anything fully to the property.

5G broadband might be a good option in such locations. Three currently charge £20 per month for a 24 month contract (£10 for the first six months) or £24 per month for a one month contract.

 

[Trackman]

That entirely depends on landlords.

That's incorrect. There are a lot of properties that will continue to be served by Openreach FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) or FTTN (Fibre to the Node) rather than full FTTP (Fibre to the Premises).

That's saved me a post.
My local cabinet is now FTTC as I asked when they removed it - old sort of old cast iron BT green box with square keys. There are now two fibre cabinets ( the ones with the heavy duty locks on), I think the other is for broadband just opposite it. I was explained why, but I forget. I think there is a Virgin media cabinet next to it as well on my side of the road.

5G broadband might be a good option in such locations. Three currently charge £20 per month for a 24 month contract (£10 for the first six months) or £24 per month for a one month contract.

I know little about 5G, do they have a guaranteed minimum speed or does it depend on which way the wind blows so to speak? In Se13 after 6pm Virgin fibre throws a wobbly. VM say upgrade.. why??

 

[westv]

That's one thing that's been good here in Hull. KCom achieved virtually 100% full fibre to the premises several years ago

 

[johncrossley]

I know little about 5G, do they have a guaranteed minimum speed

Don't think so.

 

[Crossover]

I suspect that installing full fibre to an existing building would be more disruptive and expensive than cable. Can fibre go on the outside walls or does it have to go inside?

We have FTTP, installed about 3 months ago. We didn't have a phone line at all (we had previously used Virgin Media). The new fibre comes across from the telegraph pole (noticable as it is the thinnest cable of the lot) and down the side of the house into a small termination box. There is then a short fibre tail through the wall into a transeiver (which is then attached to the router via a normal network cable).

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the fitting of fibre in older flats (both low and high rise), there may be concerns that it could affect the fire safety design if those are mucked around with.

At my previous address (housing association), I knew someone who resided in a high rise nearby, and the housing association had effectively barred the installation of fibre comms equipment without seeking permission as there were some flats that had holes drilled diagonally through walls and doors (all fire doors) not been fixed back properly. This was back in 2019 two years after the Grenfell Tower fire, caused by mucking around with the fire safety design by using over cladding not designed for the purpose, with nobody who gave the works the go ahead having been sent to jail as of today.

 

[westv]

We have FTTP, installed about 3 months ago. We didn't have a phone line at all (we had previously used Virgin Media). The new fibre comes across from the telegraph pole (noticable as it is the thinnest cable of the lot) and down the side of the house into a small termination box. There is then a short fibre tail through the wall into a transeiver (which is then attached to the router via a normal network cable).

That's what we have.

 

[johncrossley]

That's what we have.

Is there any other way of doing it?

 

[dosxuk]

There's lots of different ways. It all depends on the building, it's design and it's existing connections.

Many modern flats have a central point where all the telecoms come in, if there is way to get fibre into there and a route from there to individual flats through existing risers, operators can use these. Older places may only have individual buried copper lines to a box under the street, possibly wired directly back to the exchange with no access, that's going to be a lot more tricky.

Operators will need permission from the building owner to do anything, so you need to ensure they are on board. There is no reason why flats will miss out on full fibre providing the owners and operators can come to an agreement on how it is installed.

 

[westv]

Is there any other way of doing it?

Some areas here have the wires underground to the premises.

 

[johncrossley]

I've contacted the management company and they say they've given permission to the "Alt-Net" company currently building full fibre, even though it says on the website that they need permission.

Does Openreach need similar permission? According to their website Openreach will build full fibre at our exchange quite soon.

 

[dosxuk]

Information about wayleaves - the agreement a property or land owner needs to come to with a infrastructure operator - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-on-access-agreements


From Openreach themselves - https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/obtaining-wayleaves

 

[najaB]

Does Openreach need similar permission?

Yes. As @dosxuk points out Openreach have to get wayleaves the same as any other operator. I used to sit opposite some of the planners and it used to cause them no end of bother when they had to get several landowners on board for a new fibre run.

 

[takno]

That's incorrect. There are a lot of properties that will continue to be served by Openreach FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) or FTTN (Fibre to the Node) rather than full FTTP (Fibre to the Premises).

At some point in the 9 months since I got internet installed the options for my flat have gone from FTTN only to FTTP only, which is a bit unexpected. Since I'm getting north of 80mbs from the FTTN I'm not especially inclined to switch, but interesting nonetheless.

Being in a traditional freehold tenement we have the benefit of being able to run anything up our external walls without anybody really caring, but definitely illustrates that external fibre is fairly easy