What’s the future of dispatchers?

[Pompey00]

As technology takes over. Many stations are installing self dispatching cameras and screens into stations so the guard does it themself. What does this mean for dispatchers?.

 

[ComUtoR]

Which stations are installing cameras and screens ? I thought they were banned ?

 

[skyhigh]

Many stations are installing self dispatching cameras and screens into stations so the guard does it themself.

Which stations are installing screens for guards to use?

I thought they were banned ?

I don't think they're banned as such, just that Network Rail don't like them as they're station infrastructure so they are responsible for the maintenance. They prefer on-train systems where the TOC is responsible for the maintenance. I could well be wrong on that though!

Personally I don't think the role of dispatcher is in any danger.

 

[Pompey00]

Which stations are installing cameras and screens ? I thought they were banned ?

Godalming installed recently so it’s new , fratton has had for it years on platform 1.but still dispatchers in morning and evening which is weird as they have screens and cameras.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The trouble is some dispatch staff don’t help themselves. In Cornwall they agreed that anything 5 cars or less does not need to be dispatched. At another station I’m not naming despite 2 dispatchers on each shift they only appear out of the office for busy trains. Also many vacancies go unfilled meaning self dispatch almost becomes an everyday occurrence. Likewise some stations have agreements where certain platforms are self dispatch like P1 and 4 at Newport (Gwent).

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Godalming installed recently so it’s new , fratton has had for it years on platform 1.but still dispatchers in morning and evening which is weird as they have screens and cameras.

Likewise Godalming still has dispatch at some times of days. Clapham Junction on the Down Main also. The screens are there to assist guards at times where there aren’t dispatch staff to save staff being needed at obscure hours of the day.

 

[Horizon22]

This seems like generally a SWR thing with the mid-platforms from what I've seen, and not many TOCs follow that process. But there are several dispatch methods; pure DOO, DOO/station dispatch (either with RA or bat and flag), station/guard dispatch, guard only dispatch. Then the method as which those are done might change (mirrors, cameras, in-cab, look back etc.) which depends on stock and location. So it's complicated but I don't think dispatchers are going extinct any time soon but in some specific locations it might be beneficial especially if there's a change early morning/late at night with staffing levels.

 

[Sly Sloth]

Thameslink self dispatch DOO…..unfortunately that’s the future with perhaps 1 or 2 members of staff on hand for customer service

 

[L401CJF]

The trouble is some dispatch staff don’t help themselves.

There is a certain station I work through with exceptionally lazy dispatchers. I won't name the location. Admittedly there is only one on shift at any one time.

Very often you are told by another member of station staff that the dispatcher is busy dispatching a late train so just self dispatch. I always refuse and say I'll wait. If theyre short staffed that's not their problem (or mine), and if people keep self dispatching on time when the dispatcher is busy the TOC isn't going to be motivated to employ another staff member unless they keep seeing delay minutes down to no dispatcher available!

Plus if it goes wrong, who's up a creek without a paddle? Most likely me as I'm the one who didn't wait for the dispatcher. Not worth the hassle!

You often get given the "tip" from the dispatcher off a different platform too. Not sure how they can see it is safe to close the doors and check the signal from a platform over a footbridge but there we have it. Do they watch the train safely depart the platform? Rarely. You watch them out the side window and by the time you've turned your head to the back window the office door is closing behind them!

 

[Horizon22]

You often get given the "tip" from the dispatcher off a different platform too. Not sure how they can see it is safe to close the doors and check the signal from a platform over a footbridge but there we have it. Do they watch the train safely depart the platform? Rarely. You watch them out the side window and by the time you've turned your head to the back window the office door is closing behind them!

Eek. Totally contrary to the dispatch procedure and rules too. Certainly would be raising it as an issue with your manager (although maybe it has been in detail to no avail!) although appreciate you don’t want to cause fellow staff problems. Ultimately though you’ve got lead responsibility of course and as you say, any incident and you’ll be asked “why did you accept close doors / ready to depart signal then?”

 

[Mainsideman]

Thameslink self dispatch DOO…..unfortunately that’s the future with perhaps 1 or 2 members of staff on hand for customer service

Not at kings cross, brighton, cambridge, peterborough, wimbledon, sutton and horsham.

 

[Watershed]

Not at kings cross, brighton, cambridge, peterborough, wimbledon, sutton and horsham.

However, some very busy stations have recently gone over to self-dispatch, e.g. East Croydon and Gatwick Airport. So I wouldn't rule out the possibility of this being extended.

 

[Mainsideman]

However, some very busy stations have recently gone over to self-dispatch, e.g. East Croydon and Gatwick Airport. So I wouldn't rule out the possibility of this being extended.

Feel like if it was planned it would have been done with these stations you mentioned

 

[Sly Sloth]

Not at kings cross, brighton, cambridge, peterborough, wimbledon, sutton and horsham.

That’s 7 stations out of maybe the 150+ they serve. These are also start and End of journey stations in most cases So involve ECS movements to depots which may be why they’re currently still dispatching. If they can self dispatch from the likes of Gatwick, Croydon and London Bridge then it won’t be long before these go too…..

 

[Pompey00]

The trouble is some dispatch staff don’t help themselves. In Cornwall they agreed that anything 5 cars or less does not need to be dispatched. At another station I’m not naming despite 2 dispatchers on each shift they only appear out of the office for busy trains. Also many vacancies go unfilled meaning self dispatch almost becomes an everyday occurrence. Likewise some stations have agreements where certain platforms are self dispatch like P1 and 4 at Newport (Gwent).

Tbh suprised it’s 5 or less that don’t need dispatching as it’s normally less than 9 that don’t need dispatching where 9-12 carriages do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2022 ==

Thameslink self dispatch DOO…..unfortunately that’s the future with perhaps 1 or 2 members of staff on hand for customer service

Possibly then just be customer service instead and helping with passenger assists on and off train .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2022 ==

That’s 7 stations out of maybe the 150+ they serve. These are also start and End of journey stations in most cases So involve ECS movements to depots which may be why they’re currently still dispatching. If they can self dispatch from the likes of Gatwick, Croydon and London Bridge then it won’t be long before these go too…..

Possibly then just have to wait and see.

 

[Mainsideman]

That’s 7 stations out of maybe the 150+ they serve. These are also start and End of journey stations in most cases So involve ECS movements to depots which may be why they’re currently still dispatching. If they can self dispatch from the likes of Gatwick, Croydon and London Bridge then it won’t be long before these go too…..

Theyve been self dispatching at london bridge for years, they wont remove at brighton because of the lighting and cant see them removing kings cross either.

 

[Pompey00]

Theyve been self dispatching at london bridge for years, they wont remove at brighton because of the lighting and cant see them removing kings

Likewise Godalming still has dispatch at some times of days. Clapham Junction on the Down Main also. The screens are there to assist guards at times where there aren’t dispatch staff to save staff being needed at obscure hours of the day.

true true

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2022 ==

Theyve been self dispatching at london bridge for years, they wont remove at brighton because of the lighting and cant see them removing kings cross either.

Possibly will change one day.

 

[43066]

You often get given the "tip" from the dispatcher off a different platform too. Not sure how they can see it is safe to close the doors and check the signal from a platform over a footbridge but there we have it. Do they watch the train safely depart the platform? Rarely. You watch them out the side window and by the time you've turned your head to the back window the office door is closing behind them!

That’s ridiculous. If it was me I would ignore them until they’re standing in the correct place and following the correct procedure. Exactly as you say, if something happens it’ll be blamed on you.

 

[Economist]

Has anyone else noticed the difference between agency and in-house staff?

I one had an agency dispatcher who didn't check the signal (which was green but he should have checked nonetheless) and immediately gave me a green on the LED bat. I told him the doors were still open but he gave me a green again, to which point I had to tell him how to dispatch a train, step-by-step. I reported it because I was worried he had a friend who he was standing in for or something like that.

On the other hand, I have seen some (usually in-house) who are very professional and do everything as it should be done.

 

[387star]

The trouble is some dispatch staff don’t help themselves. In Cornwall they agreed that anything 5 cars or less does not need to be dispatched. At another station I’m not naming despite 2 dispatchers on each shift they only appear out of the office for busy trains. Also many vacancies go unfilled meaning self dispatch almost becomes an everyday occurrence. Likewise some stations have agreements where certain platforms are self dispatch like P1 and 4 at Newport (Gwent).

In 2012 Southern stopped dispatching trains at terminal stations unless they were longer than one unit in length
Barnham and Chichester lost dispatchers even earlier

 

[Pompey00]

Oh really ? Other Stations will eventually follow.

 

[43066]

I one had an agency dispatcher who didn't check the signal (which was green but he should have checked nonetheless) and immediately gave me a green on the LED bat. I told him the doors were still open but he gave me a green again, to which point I had to tell him how to dispatch a train, step-by-step. I reported it because I was worried he had a friend who he was standing in for or something like that.

There’s one like that at the station attached to a much bigger station that every train stops at soon after leaving a certain London terminal. He gave me RA vice CD once a couple of times, and on both occasions didn’t seem to know how to do bat and flag dispatch.

On one occasion someone else was there who thankfully did know and was able to step in. On the another there wasn’t anyone else and he had what I can only describe as a panic attack when I called the box to ask for the signal to be put back so that we could start again.

He’s still there now!

EDIT: I’m pretty sure he’s not agency, so clearly the TOC’s training and selection procedures are inadequate. I’d agree that agency staff overall tend to be of much lower quality and conspicuously less motivated to do a good job, perhaps inevitably. What’s that saying about paying peanuts!?

 

[66701GBRF]

I don't think they're banned as such, just that Network Rail don't like them as they're station infrastructure so they are responsible for the maintenance. They prefer on-train systems where the TOC is responsible for the maintenance. I could well be wrong on that though!

Are NR responsible for that kind of infrastructure? Seems odd if so. I thought they'd only be responsible for things that are directly related to the signalling like the TRTS/RA indicators etc.

 

[Urban Gateline]

However, some very busy stations have recently gone over to self-dispatch, e.g. East Croydon and Gatwick Airport. So I wouldn't rule out the possibility of this being extended.

Not sure where you got this from about East Croydon and Gatwick, only the class 700's are self dispatch, everything else still gets dispatched regardless of length of Train!

 

[Watershed]

Not sure where you got this from about East Croydon and Gatwick, only the class 700's are self dispatch, everything else still gets dispatched regardless of length of Train!

I was referring to Thameslink services (see the post I was replying to).