Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.

[yorksrob]

Agreed, thats why the government did what it did today.. stability.

The BoE wont get inflation under control on its own. The $ is too strong. It wont get weaker medium turn, too many global factors are reaching to it for safety.
As the $ goes up, our inflation does, we buy too many goods in $, inc oil. As we have reduced international credibility, the only route back is to buy it with interest rates.

but the real route to lower inflation is to cut demand… its demand pushing up price. The government needs to take money out of circulation.

Falling growth, job cuts, tax rises will also help reduce inflation.

The country is at its 2008 moment all over again, the markets know this, the country needs to admit it. Taking money off the housing market will cut demand..

the banks are much more secure than 2008 so they will be pushed further… lloydsbank share price is down.. whilst hsbc is up.. which one has most exposure to the UK housing market ?

Disposable income will be much less disposable next year. We need to live like the Greeks for a while.

Today's budget looks like swinging too much in the other direction.

We need to see the reform to the energy market/windfall taxes on the energy extractors etc, rather than just pushing everything onto the public.

To say "demand" is pushing up inflation is half the story. It's demand for foreign commodities that is primarily pushing up prices. Trashing the domestic economy isn't going to solve the over-reliance on foreign commodities.

 

[GS250]

Isn't Boris' seat in Uxbridge looking vulnerable? I think it would just kicking the can down the road by having him back as PM when the next General Election does come.

I'd say it's very vulnerable.

He hardly had a huge majority during the last election. Although it would appear as many people as possible who didn't like the Tories or brexit came out to vote against him.

This area is quite diverse demographically and is only going to go one way and fairly rapidly too. Most of those who I know who live in the area are considering moving further out to escape the decline. These are a mix of mainly professionally qualified Hindu anglo-Indians and Hillingdon's more traditional residents.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Oct 2022 ==

Today's budget looks like swinging too much in the other direction.

We need to see the reform to the energy market/windfall taxes on the energy extractors etc, rather than just pushing everything onto the public.

To say "demand" is pushing up inflation is half the story. It's demand for foreign commodities that is primarily pushing up prices. Trashing the domestic economy isn't going to solve the over-reliance on foreign commodities.

Agreed...for all its faults the previous budget at least appeared to giving ordinary working people a break. Maybe that's why the globalist banks were so down on it.

I suppose someone has to pay for lockdown and its clearly going to be the ordinary citizen.

 

[Ediswan]

This area is quite diverse demographically and is only going to go one way and fairly rapidly too. Most of those who I know who live in the area are considering moving further out to escape the decline. These are a mix of mainly professionally qualified Hindu anglo-Indians and Hillingdon's more traditional residents.

Also a university with around 15,000 students, though not all will be eligible/registered to vote in that constituency.

 

[Cdd89]

One notable reversal is the removal of the VAT-free shopping exemption. Despite the cries from “luxury retailers”, I think this is a sensible move, especially with the pound as weak as it is; we are still attractive even without foregoing 20% VAT, and the scheme is easily abused by residents.

If (and it’s very hard to imagine it) we ever get back near £2/$1, or anywhere above £1.5 in fact, I’d probably be in favour of bringing it back.

 

[MikeWM]

I suppose someone has to pay for lockdown and its clearly going to be the ordinary citizen.

Of course. Some of us were shouting rather loudly and continually that this would happen from March 2020, but we were told to shut up. Just as we had to pay for the colossal errors of the banks and the rating agencies after 2008.

 

[DarloRich]

Of course. Some of us were shouting rather loudly and continually that this would happen from March 2020, but we were told to shut up. Just as we had to pay for the colossal errors of the banks and the rating agencies after 2008.

That is hardly the work of Cassandra!

 

[Gloster]

The Grauniad is reporting that Truss has sent Mordaunt to answer Commons Questions, including an Urgent Question on Kwarteng’s sacking from Labour, in her place. Now it is not unusual for the PM to send someone else to give an answer, but in the current situation it suggests she is ‘frit’.

Source: Grauniad News under UK government. (Sorry, I can’t do a link.)

 

[Typhoon]

The Grauniad is reporting that Truss has sent Mordaunt to answer Commons Questions, including an Urgent Question on Kwarteng’s sacking from Labour, in her place. Now it is not unusual for the PM to send someone else to give an answer, but in the current situation it suggests she is ‘frit’.

Source: Grauniad News under UK government. (Sorry, I can’t do a link.)

Penny Mordaunt to respond to Labour's UQ on Kwarteng sacking instead of Truss​

14:03
Penny Mordaunt, the leader of the Commons, will respond to the Labour urgent question for Liz Truss on the sacking of Kwasi Kwarteng (see 1.02pm), Tory sources have confirmed. Labour sources say this shows Truss is “frit” (a Lincolnshire word for frightened, used by Margaret Thatcher to taunt Michael Foot in 1983).
It is no surprise that Truss would rather not take questions from Starmer and other MPs on this, but it is not unusual for a prime minister to send someone else to answer an urgent question. It is what normally happens.

It's on MSN. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...sedgntp&cvid=0a07bf5226294cc5aa270bba5e4c88d5

Maybe it's an audition?

Edit:
Also on BBC

Mordaunt to take Commons question for Truss​

Nick Eardley
Chief political correspondent
The prime minister will not be answering Keir Starmer’s urgent question in the Commons later.
Instead, the government will send the Leader of the Commons Penny Mordaunt.
The PM isn’t compelled to attend. Senior ministers often send others to answer these questions.
But some Conservative MPs also want to hear from the prime minister today.
Her government has just junked its economic strategy – the fact the prime minister has no public statements planned will raise a few eyebrows.
A Labour source described the PM as “frit”.

 

[GS250]

Of course. Some of us were shouting rather loudly and continually that this would happen from March 2020, but we were told to shut up. Just as we had to pay for the colossal errors of the banks and the rating agencies after 2008.

The same section of the global populace who were banging the drum for lockdown or restrictions (and we're talking a lot of people here) have probably been the first to be waving placards about regarding 'austerity'. Maybe they saw lockdown as a chance to empty the pockets of the genuine wealthy (under the guise of saving lives)? Of course we who live outside of the idealistic bubble know the genuine wealthy won't give up a penny unless you literally drive a legion of tanks to their many mansions.

Whilst Truss, Hunt and her cronies are flapping about like a fish out of water, I don't envy any of the World's governments with the present situation.

The IMF, WEF etc are absolutely taking control here.

 

[MikeWM]

The same section of the global populace who were banging the drum for lockdown or restrictions (and we're talking a lot of people here) have probably been the first to be waving placards about regarding 'austerity'. Maybe they saw lockdown as a chance to empty the pockets of the genuine wealthy (under the guise of saving lives)? Of course we who live outside of the idealistic bubble know the genuine wealthy won't give up a penny unless you literally drive a legion of tanks to their many mansions.

I think there was genuine bafflement from many on here and elsewhere about the 'hard' left going along with all of this. It should have been extremely obvious that it was going to be the ordinary worker that was going to have to pay for all of this, while the very rich got a lot richer.

The IMF, WEF etc are absolutely taking control here.

Yep - and that should deeply concern anyone hoping for change, from any direction, at any point in the future. I really do think anyone not committed to the current implementation of a neo-liberal globalist economic system should be very worried, whether from left, right, or whatever, as it appears we're stuck with it whoever you elect. Just as with Covid, it seems there's now only one acceptable answer, irrespective of what the politicians actually think or indeed their electorate.

Even the Guardian is pointing out that what has now happened is a return to 'austerity' and will lead to weaker growth and a deeper recession. Don't people see a problem with that?

 

[DC1989]

Even the Guardian is pointing out that what has now happened is a return to 'austerity' and will lead to weaker growth and a deeper recession. Don't people see a problem with that?

The issue as I understand it is that the financial markets interpreted Kwatengs budget as being risky (due to being uncosted etc) and therefore felt that lending money to Britain was higher risk and therefore the interest on those gilts increased.

I've seen quite a few people from both left and right deriding this. But how do you 'force' people to lend money with a lower interest rate?

 

[yorksrob]

I think there was genuine bafflement from many on here and elsewhere about the 'hard' left going along with all of this. It should have been extremely obvious that it was going to be the ordinary worker that was going to have to pay for all of this, while the very rich got a lot richer.



Yep - and that should deeply concern anyone hoping for change, from any direction, at any point in the future. I really do think anyone not committed to the current implementation of a neo-liberal globalist economic system should be very worried, whether from left, right, or whatever, as it appears we're stuck with it whoever you elect. Just as with Covid, it seems there's now only one acceptable answer, irrespective of what the politicians actually think or indeed their electorate.

Even the Guardian is pointing out that what has now happened is a return to 'austerity' and will lead to weaker growth and a deeper recession. Don't people see a problem with that?

We'd have ended up with austerity by the back door with the previous mini-budget. The current budget appears to be offering austerity by the front door.

Hunt should have scrapped the household tax cuts and kept some element of support against energy bills (funded through windfall taxes). He should have replaced the corperation tax cut with targeted support for small business.

This might have been possible at the start off before the chaos.

This is why there needs to be a general election. Nothing else will do.

 

[jfollows]

The Grauniad is reporting that Truss has sent Mordaunt to answer Commons Questions, including an Urgent Question on Kwarteng’s sacking from Labour, in her place. Now it is not unusual for the PM to send someone else to give an answer, but in the current situation it suggests she is ‘frit’.

Source: Grauniad News under UK government. (Sorry, I can’t do a link.)

There is speculation that Liz Truss has followed Boris Johnson's example and legged it to Ukraine for some love-in over there rather than facing the music here.

EDIT However, given that Penny Mordaunt looks much more "prime ministerial" than Liz Truss ever did, I think running away or hiding under a table (another suggestion earlier) was another major Liz Truss mistake.

FURTHER EDIT Apologies, apparently Liz Truss has been spotted in Westminster, not under a table, just not in the chamber of the House of Commons. So not in Ukraine.

 

[DarloRich]

it suggests she is ‘frit’.

She is "fritting" herself more like!

The IMF, WEF etc are absolutely taking control here.

I really do think anyone not committed to the current implementation of a neo-liberal globalist economic system should be very worried

This is tin foilism of the highest order.

What does this even mean? How are the IMF or "WEF" (?) taking control? On what basis? How are they doing that? Why? For whom? it is nonsense.

There isn't an underground lair where evil finance people meet to control the world. The market users are a herd. A stampede. it isn't under control. They don't meet to decide on action, it simply happens and people follow ( or don't) If enough follow the rest jump as they cant be left exposed. it is all built on confidence. Truss destroyed that confidence in about 20 seconds with her crack pot financial plan.

Don't get me wrong I have no love for these people ( I think they are contemptible people paid a fortune for nowt frankly) but there isn't a George Soros run cabal organising things. it just doesn't work like that.

It should have been extremely obvious that it was going to be the ordinary worker that was going to have to pay for all of this, while the very rich got a lot richer.

you present this as some kind of ground breaking insight. it is simply stating the obvious.

The issue as I understand it is that the financial markets interpreted Kwatengs as being risky and therefore felt that lending money to Britain was higher risk and therefore the interest on those gilts went higher.

That is exactly what happened, however some dark conspiracy of IMF/WMF/ other shadowy TLA evilitude is much more fun/easier to swallow than reality!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Oct 2022 ==

This is why there needs to be a general election. Nothing else will do.

absolutely! it needs to happen soon. Truss should be in the car and off to see Charlie this afternoon asking for an election.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Morduant behaving like a PM in waiting in the Commons now fielding opposition questions with reasonable tact and not the buffoonish approach that Boris did. Won't be going unnoticed by Tory MPs.

 

[GS250]

We'd have ended up with austerity by the back door with the previous mini-budget. The current budget appears to be offering austerity by the front door.

Hunt should have scrapped the household tax cuts and kept some element of support against energy bills (funded through windfall taxes). He should have replaced the corperation tax cut with targeted support for small business.

This might have been possible at the start off before the chaos.

This is why there needs to be a general election. Nothing else will do.

I agree with this completely. I'd suggest on the day we'll end up with Labour as the largest party doing a deal with the Lib Dems to form a government. For all the bluster regarding a Labour landslide...they really have such little to offer when compared to the class of 97. They won't get a majority.

By the way my comments about the WEF/IMF I stand by. I don't think there's a dark conspiracy. A central/global bank for all is becoming more and more likely purely due to advances in technology.

 

[Urobach]

Sending Mordaunt out to respond to Starmer and hiding was disgraceful and unacceptable in my opinion.

I've never known a PM in my lifetime (earliest memory being Major) being so hopelessly out their depth than Truss, despite the various criticisms of Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May and Johnson.

Presumably that was a warm up for Mordaunt before Truss is removed?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Morduant behaving like a PM in waiting in the Commons now fielding opposition questions with reasonable tact and not the buffoonish approach that Boris did. Won't be going unnoticed by Tory MPs.

Most likely the "very genuine reason the PM is too indisposed to be in the chamber" is probably she's been told to stay away and let Penny show her skills to the watching Country and get people thinking she'll be good as PM. This is an election tactic in order to save themselves and nothing more. I certainly don't get the impression any of her sincerity is genuine anyway. It seems very carefully acted out. I've never personally trusted Penny Mourdant and this is certainly not doing anything to change that.

 

[DarloRich]

By the way my comments about the WEF/IMF I stand by. I don't think there's a dark conspiracy. A central/global bank for all is becoming more and more likely purely due to advances in technology.

Ok - can you explain them. What do you mean?

 

[GS250]

Morduant behaving like a PM in waiting in the Commons now fielding opposition questions with reasonable tact and not the buffoonish approach that Boris did. Won't be going unnoticed by Tory MPs.

She'd have been my choice. In second place would have been Badenoch.

The male candidates were all pretty hopeless if you ask me.

 

[yorksrob]

I agree with this completely. I'd suggest on the day we'll end up with Labour as the largest party doing a deal with the Lib Dems to form a government. For all the bluster regarding a Labour landslide...they really have such little to offer when compared to the class of 97. They won't get a majority.

By the way my comments about the WEF/IMF I stand by. I don't think there's a dark conspiracy. A central/global bank for all is becoming more and more likely purely due to advances in technology.

A lib-lab pact would be perfectly acceptable to me.

 

[JamesT]

Hunt should have scrapped the household tax cuts and kept some element of support against energy bills (funded through windfall taxes). He should have replaced the corperation tax cut with targeted support for small business.

Hasn't he pretty much done this? The two income tax cuts have gone and the energy bill support is still retained this winter. The windfall tax on the oil and gas producers is still going ahead plus limits on the profits of the renewable generators.
Corporation tax wasn't being cut, it was a planned rise that Kwasi cancelled. So the rise is back on. Small businesses will continue to pay the current rate.

 

[GS250]

Ok - can you explain them. What do you mean?

Global centralisation is happening whether we like it or not. Call centres, voluntary movement of people, huge cross nation investments taking place. Good or bad is open to interpretation. I think its natural that eventually you will end up with a few controlling a hell of a lot.

 

[Kite159]

Morduant behaving like a PM in waiting in the Commons now fielding opposition questions with reasonable tact and not the buffoonish approach that Boris did. Won't be going unnoticed by Tory MPs.

"here's what you could have won if you had voted for me in the final round, instead of trusting Truss"

 

[OuterDistant]

I've only just managed to catch up with Liz Truss' press conference from Friday. Truly risible stuff. She's toast.

 

[jon0844]

Don't get me wrong I have no love for these people ( I think they are contemptible people paid a fortune for nowt frankly) but there isn't a George Soros run cabal organising things. it just doesn't work like that.

Plenty of upset right-wingers on social media talking about the 'global elite' (we all know what they're referring to) running the show.

I guess in the UK it's a good way to distract from the Tories being run from Tufton Street.

As we've seen before, the talking points are consistent to suggest that there are group chats that inform people what to say on any given day, and specific terms or phrases to use (like anti-growth coalition) and often these are present both here and in the USA almost simultaneously.

 

[brad465]

Just when I thought the last 48 hours before Johnson resigned was insane, Truss has managed to beat it now

 

[DC1989]

Plenty of upset right-wingers on social media talking about the 'global elite' (we all know what they're referring to) running the show.

I guess in the UK it's a good way to distract from the Tories being run from Tufton Street.

As we've seen before, the talking points are consistent to suggest that there are group chats that inform people what to say on any given day, and specific terms or phrases to use (like anti-growth coalition) and often these are present both here and in the USA almost simultaneously.

Some of the anti vax protests in the UK have signs up calling them shots - 'death shots' etc. Which just goes to show how much of a American influence most of these conspiracies have

 

[MikeWM]

There isn't an underground lair where evil finance people meet to control the world. The market users are a herd. A stampede. it isn't under control. They don't meet to decide on action, it simply happens and people follow ( or don't) If enough follow the rest jump as they cant be left exposed. it is all built on confidence. Truss destroyed that confidence in about 20 seconds with her crack pot financial plan.

Don't get me wrong I have no love for these people ( I think they are contemptible people paid a fortune for nowt frankly) but there isn't a George Soros run cabal organising things. it just doesn't work like that.

There doesn't have to be a massive conspiracy (though that in itself doesn't mean there is or isn't!) - under your setup it is all about 'confidence' rather than any underlying economic principles. As such governments are highly constrained in what they can actually do - and that applies to left and right, as I said before we saw it first with Corbyn (which would have been a fairly uncontroversial set of proposals 60 years ago if Harold Wilson had put them forward). And for example the 2008 crash was a result of 'confidence' in things that didn't deserve confidence. I'm deeply uneasy that we've given over most of our power to unaccountable markets and large corporations that often don't behave rationally and frequently don't operate in our best interests.

you present this as some kind of ground breaking insight. it is simply stating the obvious.

Of course it is, but it didn't seem like most people thought so at the time, else why did the left (in particular) support it all and indeed call for even more of it? Remember 'build back better'? Whatever happened to that?

 

[brad465]

Morduant behaving like a PM in waiting in the Commons now fielding opposition questions with reasonable tact and not the buffoonish approach that Boris did. Won't be going unnoticed by Tory MPs.

Whoever comes in will still have to pull off a miracle to recover likely permanent damage caused by the last 6 weeks, including poor party credibility regarding choosing leaders and the cost to pensions and mortgages by the mini-budget and its aftermath.