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LNER Azuma diesel under wires

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Kingston Dan

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Was on the 09.21 Northallerton- Edinburgh (ex Doncaster) train yesterday and from Berwick to about Longniddry it appeared to be on diesel power - underfloor vibration, noise and slow acceleration from Berwick. I may have got this wrong but is this a thing? Why would it happen and can Azumas change power mode on the move? Were there overhead power problems on Sunday 16 October?
 
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74A

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I think the power supply up there cannot take too many electric trains at one time. So some services run on diesel.

I believe they are working on upgrading it.
 

Watershed

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Was on the 09.21 Northallerton- Edinburgh (ex Doncaster) train yesterday and from Berwick to about Longniddry it appeared to be on diesel power - underfloor vibration, noise and slow acceleration from Berwick. I may have got this wrong but is this a thing? Why would it happen and can Azumas change power mode on the move? Were there overhead power problems on Sunday 16 October?
This is 'a thing' on some Sunday services, because LNER run 3tph to/from Edinburgh in some hours - more than their normal weekday service. The power supply for the OLE between Chathill and Prestonpans was never specified for such an intensive electric service when the line was electrified in the late 80s/early 90s, and indeed is only capable of even running the weekday/Saturday service because it was expected that there would be electrically hauled heavy freight (which hasn't really materialised). TPE 802s have to use diesel mode in this area every day of the week.

An upgrade to the power supply is in progress, but the feeder in question (Marshall Meadows, around the border of England and Scotland) is located in somewhat of a 'blackspot' for high voltage National Grid supplies. The lead-time for them, or the local Distribution Network Operator, to provide a new supply would be very long and so I believe the approach being taken here is to use Static Frequency Converters, which is a new piece of kit that allows the use of existing lower-voltage supplies. There is still a lot of work to do, and the upgrade won't be complete for some years yet.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Can and do. In fact, that's probably an interesting question - are most changeovers scheduled to happen on the move or in stations?
I believe the vast majority of Great Western ones are done on the move - for Cotswold services just before Didcot, Berks and Hants just before Newbury and I'm not sure about Bristol but I think it's just after Swindon before they tail off towards Chippenham. Swansea services are an exception and pan up and down while stationary at Cardiff Central.

I can't comment for LNER. Nor the others really, although I'm sure I've seen a Hull Trains Paragon do the deeds at Doncaster, which makes sense really.
 

najaB

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I can't comment for LNER. Nor the others really, although I'm sure I've seen a Hull Trains Paragon do the deeds at Doncaster, which makes sense really.
Pretty sure that LNER change over between Stirling and Dunblane on the Chieftain, and I *believe* it's on approach to Haymarket for the Aberdeen trains.
 

swt_passenger

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Pretty sure that LNER change over between Stirling and Dunblane on the Chieftain, and I *believe* it's on approach to Haymarket for the Aberdeen trains.
There are also four locations on the northern ECML where NR have installed temporary automatic power changeover (APCO) equipment, at Longniddry and Chathill either side of the Marshall Meadows limitation, and at Bradbury and Pilmoor to cover some other limitation in North Yorkshire. (I’m not sure of the relevant grid supply name, is it Hutton Bonville?)

But we’ve often been told in forum discussions that TOCS prefer their drivers to changeover during the station calls either side of the APCO controlled areas, and I doubt anyone knows the numbers of where changes actually happen.
 

najaB

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But we’ve often been told in forum discussions that TOCS prefer their drivers to changeover during the station calls either side of the APCO controlled areas, and I doubt anyone knows the numbers of where changes actually happen.
That's why I was wondering where the changeovers are scheduled to occur, rather than where they actually do.
 

Benjwri

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That's why I was wondering where the changeovers are scheduled to occur, rather than where they actually do.
I would presume they path them from where they are scheduled to occur, in which case you can see on RTT, and it appears to be right to the end of electrification.
 

Prestige15

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It accelerate slow yes but it can still out gun HST/225's, In the real world, passengers aint going to see much difference in journey time.
 

DanNCL

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Some LNER services are booked to run on diesel between Chathill and Longniddry on Sundays. The changeover happens on the move.

Changeover locations for other LNER services are as follows:
Lincoln - stationary at Newark North Gate
Harrogate - stationary at Leeds
Hull - on the move at Temple Hirst Junction
Middlesbrough - on the move at Longlands Junction
Sunderland - stationary at Newcastle
Tyne Valley - stationary at Newcastle and Carlisle
Aberdeen - stationary at Haymarket
Inverness - either stationary at Stirling or on the move at Dunblane, not sure which.

TPE, unlike LNER, until recently required power changes to happen at station calls so there changeover locations were as follows:
Manchester Victoria - stationary
Colton Junction - on the move
Chathill - on the move
Longniddry - on the move
Previously they also used the following:
York - stationary
Durham - stationary
Morpeth - stationary
Before TPE began using APCO, their 802s remained on diesel throughout whilst north of the Scottish border.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

It accelerate slow yes but it can still out gun HST/225's, In the real world, passengers aint going to see much difference in journey time.
An 80x on diesel would struggle to match a 225 on performance over a long distance. Only on the initial acceleration does it have an advantage.
 
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APT618S

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It accelerate slow yes but it can still out gun HST/225's, In the real world, passengers aint going to see much difference in journey time.
When it is a 5 car 800 + 5 car 801 the acceleration on diesel northbound out of Berwick feels very slow.
 

matchmaker

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Some LNER services are booked to run on diesel between Chathill and Longniddry on Sundays. The changeover happens on the move.

Changeover locations for other LNER services are as follows:
Lincoln - stationary at Newark North Gate
Harrogate - stationary at Leeds
Hull - on the move at Temple Hirst Junction
Middlesbrough - on the move at Longlands Junction
Sunderland - stationary at Newcastle
Tyne Valley - stationary at Newcastle and Carlisle
Aberdeen - stationary at Haymarket
Inverness - either stationary at Stirling or on the move at Dunblane, not sure which.

TPE, unlike LNER, until recently required power changes to happen at station calls so there changeover locations were as follows:
Manchester Victoria - stationary
Colton Junction - on the move
Chathill - on the move
Longniddry - on the move
Previously they also used the following:
York - stationary
Durham - stationary
Morpeth - stationary
Before TPE began using APCO, their 802s remained on diesel throughout whilst north of the Scottish border.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


An 80x on diesel would struggle to match a 225 on performance over a long distance. Only on the initial acceleration does it have an advantage.
Not at Dunblane - as the wires end there that would be cutting things a bit fine! It's my understanding that southbound the changeover normally occurs automatically between Kippenross Tunnel and Bridge of Allan, northbound between Cornton LC and Bridge of Allan. I don't recall seeing any changing over at Stirling
 

TurboMan

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I believe the vast majority of Great Western ones are done on the move - for Cotswold services just before Didcot, Berks and Hants just before Newbury and I'm not sure about Bristol but I think it's just after Swindon before they tail off towards Chippenham. Swansea services are an exception and pan up and down while stationary at Cardiff Central.
For Oxford and the North Cots, changeover is dynamic at Moreton Cutting as these services run via Didcot Avoider rather than stopping at Didcot station (though it can be done statically in the platform if the train does call there for any reason).
For the South Cots (via Kemble), changeover is static at Swindon.
For the B&H it's dynamic at Newbury Racecourse, but up services can switch to electric at Newbury if booked to call there.
For Bristol via Bath it's dynamic roughly in the area of Christian Malford, at the bottom of Dauntsey Bank, not far from Chippenham.
For Swansea, it's static at Cardiff.

All GWR changeovers are manual, because there are too many complicating factors for automatic changeover, so it was felt best to just do everything manually rather than a mix of manual and automatic.
 

Groundhopper

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Has there been any update on the Marshall Meadows feeder station? Any indication of a completion date?

I ask as I’m currently sat on a TPE 802 running on diesel at Reston and it just feels incredibly wasteful.
 

K.o.R

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I believe the vast majority of Great Western ones are done on the move - for Cotswold services just before Didcot, Berks and Hants just before Newbury and I'm not sure about Bristol but I think it's just after Swindon before they tail off towards Chippenham. Swansea services are an exception and pan up and down while stationary at Cardiff Central.

I can't comment for LNER. Nor the others really, although I'm sure I've seen a Hull Trains Paragon do the deeds at Doncaster, which makes sense really.

The Swansea service I was on a few weeks back changed over to diesel on the approach to Cardiff. It was quite unpleasant compared to the lovely smooth electric ride the rest of the way from Reading!
 

Mugby

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I was at Leeds last week and there was an Azuma standing at Platform 6 with all the engines ticking over, due to the line through Wakefield being closed and London services were going via Hambleton to join the ECML.

First time I've heard them in that mode and it certainly is a very distinctive sound!
 
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