Do Railhead Treatment Trains run on HS1?

[AlexNL]

For their game Train Sim World 3, Dovetail Games recently released a loco add-on which lets you drive a railhead treatment train (top and tailed by 66s) over their Southeastern High Speed route. Included are some runs over High Speed 1, up to Fawkham Junction. According to the description, due to the lack of cab signalling on the 66s, these trains run in a possession.

My question is: is this realistic, and do RHTTs visit HS1, or has someone at Dovetail Games gotten creative?

 

[najaB]

My question is: is this realistic, and do RHTTs visit HS1, or has someone at Dovetail Games gotten creative?

This looks like a RHTT - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U14594/2022-10-14/detailed

 

[Freightmaster]

This looks like a RHTT - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U14594/2022-10-14/detailed

That's a test train.





MARK

 

[Supercoss]

Never seen RHTT on HS1 But when the yellow test train coaches operate a pair of HS1 MPV units are used top and tail 97011/12/13/14 .
I've seen the nmt operate but that was in possession.

 

[najaB]

If there are no RHTTs how do they clean the rails?

 

[507020]

If there are no RHTTs how do they clean the rails?

Do they need RHTTs on HS1 or is the infrastructure maintained with no overhanging vegetation to cause issues? RHTTs were never necessary on the conventional network in the past since great effort was taken to ensure no trees infringed on the railway in such a way.

 

[najaB]

RHTTs were never necessary on the conventional network in the past since great effort was taken to ensure no trees infringed on the railway in such a way.

Or, were trains heavier, speeds lower, signalling mechanical, disk brakes non-existent and the occasional wheel slide just accepted as a fact of life?

 

[zwk500]

Do they need RHTTs on HS1 or is the infrastructure maintained with no overhanging vegetation to cause issues?

Given how much of the line runs in tunnels, or is over Kentish fields, it's possible that it doesn't need it. I certainly don't remember any substantial areas of woodland on my trios on HS1.

RHTTs were never necessary on the conventional network in the past since great effort was taken to ensure no trees infringed on the railway in such a way.

Difference between necessary and available might be useful here. And this 'great effort' to keep leaves back was just as much sparks from locos as trackside gangs. Compare photos from the early 60s to the early 70s and you'll see quite the difference.

Or, were trains heavier, speeds lower, signalling mechanical and the occasional wheel slide just accepted as a fact of life?

More to the point, did RHTTs exist?!

 

[DarloRich]

On the OP point: If RHTT run on HS1 will they not just be loaded onto an MPV?

RHTTs were never necessary on the conventional network in the past since great effort was taken to ensure no trees infringed on the railway in such a way.

Are you sure about that? That seems a very firm statement to make. Could you show your working?

 

[zwk500]

On the OP point: If RHTT run on HS1 will they not just be loaded onto an MPV?

MPVs also don't have TVM-430 signalling installed AFAIK, so whichever train you use you'd need a possession or special working.

 

[DarloRich]

MPVs also don't have TVM-430 signalling installed AFAIK, so whichever train you use you'd need a possession or special working.

of course! thank you ( is that the case for the HS1 MPV?)

 

[Bald Rick]

If there are no RHTTs how do they clean the rails?

They don’t. The railway was designed specifically not to need it, ie with no leaf shedding vegetation anywhere near it. The maintenance regime is quite simple - an annual mow (Well, sort of)

RHTTs were never necessary on the conventional network in the past since great effort was taken to ensure no trees infringed on the railway in such a way.

Trees did impinge, albeit not to the same level as they do now. However the safety expectations applying at the time were rather less strict.

 

[DanNCL]

Never seen RHTT on HS1 But when the yellow test train coaches operate a pair of HS1 MPV units are used top and tail 97011/12/13/14 .

On the OP point: If RHTT run on HS1 will they not just be loaded onto an MPV?

of course! thank you ( is that the case for the HS1 MPV?)

The HS1 batch of MPVs are modified for OHLE work so aren't any use for a RHTT. Test trains on HS1 are usually a Mark 1/2 set hauled by a pair of Eurotunnel Krupps.

 

[Falcon1200]

RHTTs were never necessary on the conventional network in the past since great effort was taken to ensure no trees infringed on the railway in such a way.

Quote from a magazine: 'The period of wet weather which started in late October and continued into November caused many trains to be in trouble owing to slipping on wet leaves which had fallen onto the line. An area particularly prone to this is the Ascot-Camberley/Bracknell area, and on 31st October there was much loss of time during the morning because of such wet conditions. In fact, on 1st November a train slipped to a stand on Bagshot bank' (and had to be assisted by a following train).

From last year, or some other recent time? No, this is from the January 1971 Railway Observer (which by chance I was reading last night) so refers to Autumn 1970!

Therefore RHTTs might actually have been necessary back in the Good Old Days, they just were not provided.

It might be worth mentioning too that a lot of leaves come from trees outside the railway, and beyond the railway's control.

 

[MisterSheeps]

Somewhat OT : I have read that the weight of steam engines somewhat countered the effects of slippery conditions, diesels worse, and lightweight DMUs & EMUs were atrocious. There were track length gangers, and plenty of sparks also ... interesting bit of research would be to know if preserved lines using 'kettles' have less vegetation, or the p-way gangers were the deciding factor.

 

[MotCO]

Somewhat OT : I have read that the weight of steam engines somewhat countered the effects of slippery conditions, diesels worse, and lightweight DMUs & EMUs were atrocious. There were track length gangers, and plenty of sparks also ... interesting bit of research would be to know if preserved lines using 'kettles' have less vegetation, or the p-way gangers were the deciding factor.

I've heard it said that the steam (or heat) from steam engines also kept overhead vegetation to a minimum.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They don’t. The railway was designed specifically not to need it, ie with no leaf shedding vegetation anywhere near it. The maintenance regime is quite simple - an annual mow (Well, sort of)

They learn't well from our forefathers

 

[zwk500]

They learn't well from our forefathers

Imagine what our network would have been like if we'd let the French or Germans have a go first!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

RHTTs were never necessary on the conventional network in the past since great effort was taken to ensure no trees infringed on the railway in such a way.

Really?

I remember the old Southern Region running de-icer and sandite trains around the network during the autumn and winter months

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Imagine what our network would have been like if we'd let the French or Germans have a go first!

My sarcasm was directed at the fact that until the 70's our railways were a foliage free corridor

 

[MotCO]

Imagine what our network would have been like if we'd let the French or Germans have a go first!

Don't Deutche Bahn run some freight services?

 

[zwk500]

Don't Deutche Bahn run some freight services?

DB Cargo (UK) is a separate subsidiary and DB proper dont really get that involved, I think. But my point was more what if the Germans had built their network first so we could learn from the early adopters' mistakes.
Either way it isn't really relevant to the point at hand.