Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.

[Gloster]

Why don’t we connect Truss to a generator? With all the constant U-turns she’d be rotating so fast that she would produce enough electricity to keep the country going through the coldest winter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Truss has said in PMQs that there'll be no spending cuts. This comes across as something to get her through the day, but is going to cause havoc tomorrow onwards: it means she'll have to u-turn on the mini Budget, or announce cuts and be seen to have lied, or do nothing but watch a spectacular market crash on Friday in line with the BoE saying their support ends then.

I thought BoE had themselves U-turned?

 

[brad465]

Why don’t we connect Truss to a generator? With all the constant U-turns she’d be rotating so fast that she would produce enough electricity to keep the country going through the coldest winter.

She and her Cabinet also provide plenty of gaslighting.

I thought BoE had themselves U-turned?

They appear to have done a doughnut now.

 

[najaB]

I thought BoE had themselves U-turned?

They stated on Monday evening that the QE would definitely end on Friday. They then hinted that they might continue it past the end of the week, but this morning confirmed that their original position was unchanged.

I don't know if that counts as a U-turn or not.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Truss has said in PMQs that there'll be no spending cuts. This comes across as something to get her through the day, but is going to cause havoc tomorrow onwards: it means she'll have to u-turn on the mini Budget, or announce cuts and be seen to have lied, or do nothing but watch a spectacular market crash on Friday in line with the BoE saying their support ends then.

Unless I missed it, two really vital words were missing from what she said

Real

Terms

I suspect it’s just the usual weasel words and those on benefits are going to be in for a tough time

 

[Noddy]

You wouldn’t think they could make it any worse but after Rees-Mogg claiming that the BBC was misrepresenting what was happening and Truss saying they’ll be no cuts apparently they can.

I see six of the last eight polls covering the last week all put Labour at over 50%. The remaining two have them in the high 40s. Meanwhile the Tories are ranging from 20-26. They are in for an absolute kicking. I’ve personally been screwed by the mini-budget interest rates rise and know loads of folk who have had problems as well. I certainly won’t be forgetting this.

 

[brad465]

Sounds like Truss is already begging her MPs for support:

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1580170857007415296

Hear from an MP that the PM’s gone to tearoom after PMQs

 

[najaB]

I suspect it’s just the usual weasel words and those on benefits are going to be in for a tough time

Oh, that was a given and pretty much has been the case for at least the last decade.

 

[dosxuk]

I'd love to know where the cabinet are getting their advice from to make them behave in the way they have since Truss became PM. Each day seems to result in even more bizarre behaviour and decision making from the cabinet. At the moment, they're even making the Johnson government look sane - at least their poor decisions seemed to have actual thinking behind (save big dog half the time), whereas this lot just seem to be trying to fly by the seat of their pants with little thought to any consequences of their actions.

I've seen more strength and stability from jelly left to cool in a broken fridge.

 

[Ediswan]

Doesn't he inspire confidence !....apparently, the economy is in good shape...he seems to forget his own was shifted out of the UK pretty rapidly, but, at least the nanny will still get paid with no concerns about a crashing economy !

Jacob Rees-Mogg says pensions not at risk as he hits out at BBC

Business secretary claims impartiality rules breached by suggestion market turmoil is linked to mini-budget

www.theguardian.com

I heard that live. It came across as yet another attempt to deny that the mini-budget was in any way a cause of the ensuing financial market problems.

 

[Busaholic]

I heard that live. It came across as yet another attempt to deny that the mini-budget was in any way a cause of the ensuing financial market problems.

The 'interview' was an object lesson in a government refusing to accept that anything they had done could be criticised in any way whatever. Any crisis had been caused by the 'independent' Bank of England not putting up interest rates enough just prior to Kwarteng's statement, the pension funds had only themselves to blame for their actions and, oh yes, how dare the BBC (in the person of Mishal Husain) was breaking impartiality rules by daring to suggest the Tories were in any way to blame! Interestingly enough, the mild Husain pointed out that she'd expressed no opinion but merely asked a question, which was true, but off the ninny went for his next interviewer to talk down to. I'd love him to come up against Andrew Neil, who'd eviscerate him, which is why of course he won't dare to. The interview with Husain started with his usual oh-so-humble schtick of apologising for being a couple of minutes late, then launching into what was an unbridled verbal assault on Simon Jack, the Business Editor, who merely echoed what so many in the business world were/are saying, including for the first time the Daily Mail in their editorial. The Tories know they're in trouble when the Mail starts waving the red flag!

 

[brad465]

Yeah Truss appears to be in trouble:

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1580241664387739648

Liz Truss has addressed the 1922 committee of Tory MPs this evening. The PM told MPs they should focus on the energy price guarantee and "highlight the devastation that would have been caused to small business had we not acted"

Truss also told Tory MPs that Labour "has no plan beyond the next 6 months" and no plan to help businesses.

Tonight's 1922 meeting sounds pretty dire. One MP said: "the mood was honestly funereal, horrendous. I was shocked at how brutal it was". Truss took sharp criticism on mortgages, polling and her economic record. Another MP, "there was a sense this just can't go on"

MPs present at the '22 say @halfon4harlowMP accused Liz Truss of "trashing workers' conservatism" and "everything the party has stood for over the last decade". The PM looked shocked and denied that was the case.

Several MPs say tonight’s 1922 was the worst they experienced and it failed to calm the mood. One said that the mood reflected that Truss had “no authority” among MPs: “At least a couple of times, there was a ripple of chatter going on at back while she was still talking”

 

[nw1]

People have drawn comparisons between Johnson and Nero before.

By an odd coincidence, Nero was followed by 3 obscure emperors each of whom lasted mere months.

So could Truss be the first of three spectacularly short-lived Tory PMs before we finally vote the whole damn lot of them out?

 

[jfollows]

Following the last post, there's a quote from The Economist (https://www.economist.com/leaders/2...made-britain-a-riskier-bet-for-bond-investors):

LIZ TRUSS is already a historical figure.

However long she now lasts in office, she is set to be remembered as the prime minister whose grip on power was the shortest in British political history. Ms Truss entered Downing Street on September 6th. She blew up her own government with a package of unfunded tax cuts and energy-price guarantees on September 23rd. Take away the ten days of mourning after the death of the queen, and she had seven days in control. That is the shelf-life of a lettuce.

I no longer subscribe to The Economist but it's always been reasonably representative of my views. It's not exactly hysterical or anti-Conservative either, although it's more pro my kind of old school Conservatism than the current lot.

The Times reports (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...nomic-reform-stymied-by-the-details-5cwnxk8x8) that "Operation Rolling Thunder", plans for business deregulation reform, has been delayed and is being referred to by some as "Operation ****storm" because it's "off to a thunderous start".

 

[Ediswan]

The Times reports (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...nomic-reform-stymied-by-the-details-5cwnxk8x8) that "Operation Rolling Thunder", plans for business deregulation reform, has been delayed and is being referred to by some as "Operation ****storm" because it's "off to a thunderous start".

Are they aware of the historical comparison ? I recall a previous Operation Rolling Thunder:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder

Operation Rolling Thunder was a gradual and sustained aerial bombardment campaign conducted by the United States (U.S.) 2nd Air Division (later Seventh Air Force), U.S. Navy, and Republic of Vietnam Air Force (RVNAF) against the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) from 2 March 1965 until 2 November 1968, during the Vietnam War.

Result: US Failure

The Times photo, with the pointed shoes, reminds me of Rosa Klebb (Bond villain).

 

[birchesgreen]

People have drawn comparisons between Johnson and Nero before.

By an odd coincidence, Nero was followed by 3 obscure emperors each of whom lasted mere months.

So could Truss be the first of three spectacularly short-lived Tory PMs before we finally vote the whole damn lot of them out?

Why not, let me be the first to compare Liz Truss to Galba. Though i feel she is more an Otho.

 

[Busaholic]

Following the last post, there's a quote from The Economist (https://www.economist.com/leaders/2...made-britain-a-riskier-bet-for-bond-investors):

I no longer subscribe to The Economist but it's always been reasonably representative of my views. It's not exactly hysterical or anti-Conservative either, although it's more pro my kind of old school Conservatism than the current lot.

The Times reports (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...nomic-reform-stymied-by-the-details-5cwnxk8x8) that "Operation Rolling Thunder", plans for business deregulation reform, has been delayed and is being referred to by some as "Operation ****storm" because it's "off to a thunderous start".

Anne McElvoy is Executive Editor of the Economist and is married to Martin Ivens, ex editor of the Sunday Times, whose father Michael headed a right wing pressure group Aims for Industry at the end of the last century. She'd be unlikely to steer her magazine down anything other than a centrist or centre-right direction, I feel. My wife had, in the course of her work, to have dealings with Aims for Industry, though, and always found them unpleasantly dogmatic politically.

 

[david1212]

As each day passes I can only presume either that either Truss & Kwarteng have discovered a forest of Magic Money Trees or are sleep walking while dreaming. If the latter they need a very loud alarm to wake them up to reality.

 

[Class 317]

As each day passes I can only presume either that either Truss & Kwarteng have discovered a forest of Magic Money Trees or are sleep walking while dreaming. If the latter they need a very loud alarm to wake them up to reality.

And one set for as quick as possible like yesterday

 

[Berliner]

And one set for as quick as possible like yesterday

I highly doubt the tories will agree to an early election. They know the game is over and they won't be doing anything to give up power that easily. It would require a large number of tory MPs voting to force an election they know they wil most likely lose. The party always puts itself first so we can forget about an early GE.

 

[birchesgreen]

Liz Truss is now facing opposition to her plan to halt new solar farms on marginal farm land from that well known forward thinking progressive... Jacob Rees Mogg! You really couldn't make this **** show up.

 

[brad465]

Liz Truss is now facing opposition to her plan to halt new solar farms on marginal farm land from that well known forward thinking progressive... Jacob Rees Mogg! You really couldn't make this **** show up.

I also saw reports Braverman is being snubbed with regards to involvement in immigration plans after recent remarks went down badly with India. If your Home Secretary has to be cut out of policymaking in the domain of the Home Secretary, you've made a bad appointment and the failure to dismiss her shows Truss already has no authority.

 

[birchesgreen]

I do wonder if Truss and Kwarteng are running the country for the LOLZ

 

[philosopher]

Liz Truss is now facing opposition to her plan to halt new solar farms on marginal farm land from that well known forward thinking progressive... Jacob Rees Mogg! You really couldn't make this **** show up.

If it has got to the point where even Jacob Rees Mogg is saying more sensible stuff that Truss, things must be really bad!

 

[jfollows]

I also saw reports Braverman is being snubbed with regards to involvement in immigration plans after recent remarks went down badly with India. If your Home Secretary has to be cut out of policymaking in the domain of the Home Secretary, you've made a bad appointment and the failure to dismiss her shows Truss already has no authority.

Apparently there's an imminent "free trade deal" with India in the works (clearly the government wants to be able to announce as many of these as it can as a benefit of Brexit etc.) but it will come with agreements on travel and immigration from/to India, and Braverman's negative comments about "illegal immigration from India" have disrupted the progress of the negotiations on the trade deal. So the UK people responsible for the deal have had to dismiss Braverman's comments, which doesn't look good from whatever perspective you view it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Oct 2022 ==

Liz Truss is now facing opposition to her plan to halt new solar farms on marginal farm land from that well known forward thinking progressive... Jacob Rees Mogg! You really couldn't make this **** show up.

At the time of rising fuel bills this seems to be another example of Truss pushing her theories about how the world should be in the face of reality, and indeed it's unusual for Rees Mogg to be appearing sensible in this context.
The stereotypical Truss/Tory supporter is dead against wind farms within 50 miles of where they live, but couldn't care less about solar panels on unused farm land unless they're also a farmer, in which case they'd probably be in favour of solar panels on their unused land if they get money for it.
It seems that Truss is driven by a collection of ideologies which mainly appear a bit barmy and is well out of touch with reality, and in particular with the reality that affects large numbers of people who voted Conservative in 2019 and won't do so again in 2024.

 

[bspahh]

At the time of rising fuel bills this seems to be another example of Truss pushing her theories about how the world should be in the face of reality, and indeed it's unusual for Rees Mogg to be appearing sensible in this context.

I think Liz Truss has as much interest in solar farms as Boris Johnson has in cardboard models of buses. They are something to use as a distraction from bigger stories.

 

[takno]

I think Liz Truss has as much interest in solar farms as Boris Johnson has in cardboard models of buses. They are something to use as a distraction from bigger stories.

Actually that's an interesting point. Now that Boris has a bit of slack time he should probably be putting together a bit of an exhibition of his model buses, just to prove he wasn't telling lies

 

[Typhoon]

Why not, let me be the first to compare Liz Truss to Galba. Though i feel she is more an Otho.

Galba, surely. Firstly, I've heard of him (and I suspect that Truss will remain long in the memory for all the wrong reasons, in the same way that Chamberlain is; although there the comparison ends.) Secondly, I don't think Truss plotted Johnson's downfall, he is responsible for that. Thirdly, Otho took what might be called an honourable way to leave the stage*. I somehow doubt Truss will.

* - if Wikipedia have got it right. I had to look him up.

Actually that's an interesting point. Now that Boris has a bit of slack time he should probably be putting together a bit of an exhibition of his model buses, just to prove he wasn't telling lies

He'll point to a pile of cardboard on the floor and claim that they were scrapped following the ongoing reduction of services that started under his premiership because local authorities did not subsidise them/ passengers did not use them/ companies put on the wrong routes/ Shapps got it wrong (delete as applicable).

 

[nw1]

I highly doubt the tories will agree to an early election. They know the game is over and they won't be doing anything to give up power that easily. It would require a large number of tory MPs voting to force an election they know they wil most likely lose. The party always puts itself first so we can forget about an early GE.

Except if one is forced (with sane Tories* joining the opposition parties in this respect) because the government and country are in a bad state and mass protests, strike action spreading to other sectors, and so on occur due to government inaction (or the wrong action).

This is a government unprecedented in its sheer incompetence** within my lifetime, certainly. Trying to take a neutral, non-partisan tone here, but it seems to me that the state of the government is very much worse than the vaguely comparable cases of Major 1992-97 and Brown 2007-10. So arguments about whether an early election occurs or not are rather different to those preceding times.

(* with safe seats, or with such high moral standards that they are prepared to possibly lose their seat and/or they're hedging their bets that they will be re-elected as an MP if they do the 'right thing')

(** assuming it is just incompetence, of course, and there are not underhand motives)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Oct 2022 ==

Apparently there's an imminent "free trade deal" with India in the works (clearly the government wants to be able to announce as many of these as it can as a benefit of Brexit etc.) but it will come with agreements on travel and immigration from/to India, and Braverman's negative comments about "illegal immigration from India" have disrupted the progress of the negotiations on the trade deal. So the UK people responsible for the deal have had to dismiss Braverman's comments, which doesn't look good from whatever perspective you view it.

It certainly doesn't make Truss look competent by appointing a hard-right, foaming-at-the-mouth anti-immigrationist like Braverman. If she had any sense she'd have appointed a middle-of-the-road figure who doesn't have an "attitude" towards immigration that might disrupt such trade deals. They clearly have not learnt from Patel (or don't want to).

 

[Berliner]

Except if one is forced (with sane Tories* joining the opposition parties in this respect) because the government and country are in a bad state and mass protests, strike action spreading to other sectors, and so on occur due to government inaction (or the wrong action).

This is a government unprecedented in its sheer incompetence** within my lifetime, certainly. Trying to take a neutral, non-partisan tone here, but it seems to me that the state of the government is very much worse than the vaguely comparable cases of Major 1992-97 and Brown 2007-10. So arguments about whether an early election occurs or not are rather different to those preceding times.

(* with safe seats, or with such high moral standards that they are prepared to possibly lose their seat and/or they're hedging their bets that they will be re-elected as an MP if they do the 'right thing')

(** assuming it is just incompetence, of course, and there are not underhand motives)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Oct 2022 ==


It certainly doesn't make Truss look competent by appointing a hard-right, foaming-at-the-mouth anti-immigrationist like Braverman. If she had any sense she'd have appointed a middle-of-the-road figure who doesn't have an "attitude" towards immigration that might disrupt such trade deals. They clearly have not learnt from Patel (or don't want to).

Are there any sane or morally rich tories anymore? They wre all purged when Boris made the new cohorts pledge allegiance to him and Brexit in 2019 and I don't see much of a change change of heart since then.

They have pretty much all stood by idiotic policies and helped prop up Boris during his tenure. I still think Truss would win a VONC if one was pushed for.