The 312 was split off the 12 route and operated as a 2 hourly service. It has since been operated by Coastal Coaches who sold out to Stagecoach, then Renown Coaches who went bust before Stagecoach took it over again. It has been extended before to Rye Harbour before being cut back to Rye station. It also incorporates the school bus service to Houghton Green Primary school and interworks with the 313 service.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Substantive bus service withdrawals post-Covid
- Thread starter RELL6L
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
MedwayValiant
Member
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 390
What I was thinking was that local authorities are beholden to politicians.
If the politicians want to be seen to be "punishing" the operator which threatened to withdraw its services, they might prefer "anyone but them" to be awarded the contract. It's bad economics, but the politicians are more interested in votes.
londonteacher
Member
Fair enough! I can see that and it’s a shame politics has got to that place but I’ll leave that thought there!
Quite a number of service changes in South Yorkshire from 2nd October with many routes cancelled or changed. Some cancelled are:
SL1/SL1A Tram Links to be replaced by 57 but going from every 12 minutes combined to every 30 minutes.
135 Sheffield to Rotherham cancelled replaced in part by hourly 135 between Chapeltown & Rotherham.
Kimberworth going from 3 per hour to one per hour.
Rotherham to Aston via Whiston merged into one per hour 21 from Stagecoach with 26/27/29 First all withdrawn. Rotherham to Hospital goes from 5/6 per hour to 3/4 per hour with no First services.
SL1/SL1A Tram Links to be replaced by 57 but going from every 12 minutes combined to every 30 minutes.
135 Sheffield to Rotherham cancelled replaced in part by hourly 135 between Chapeltown & Rotherham.
Kimberworth going from 3 per hour to one per hour.
Rotherham to Aston via Whiston merged into one per hour 21 from Stagecoach with 26/27/29 First all withdrawn. Rotherham to Hospital goes from 5/6 per hour to 3/4 per hour with no First services.
Yorkshire
Loads of changes in South and West Yorkshire are shown on the relevant websites.
Service changes and updates - Travel South Yorkshire
Find the latest service changes to bus, tram and train networks
travelsouthyorkshire.com
Quite a few withdrawals but some good news. The 308 'country' route Huddersfield to Holmfirth has survived. Most rural and interurban routes have survived although with some changes and Arriva in Yorkshire have speeded up some services by taking out some slow diversions.
The biggest rural loss seems to be the Arriva 405 Doncaster to Selby and 408/409 Doncaster to Pontefract, long standing routes between South and West Yorkshire. The southern end from Doncaster to Askern is saved by Arriva taking over and extending the First 51 from Doncaster and it is reported elsewhere that this is to be operated by Selby depot. Some replacement south of Pontefract but not beyond the county boundary, so another two cross-boundary services lost.
Derbyshire
Derbyshire changes are reported on the Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire thread and don't seem bad, i was expecting worse although many timetables not yet available, we don't know how much Derbyshire have had to dip into their pockets to keep this going.Greater Manchester
Some changes in Great Manchester:
From Sunday 30 October, the following service changes will come into place.
Services withdrawn
- 108 - Timperley - Brooklands - Northern Moor - Manchester
- X58 - Flixton – Davyhulme – Lostock – Manchester
- X84 - Carrcote – Uppermill – Lees – Manchester
Operator changes
- 6 - Rochdale - Kirkholt circular
From 30 October, service will be operated by Go North West - 11A - Altrincham - Gatley - Cheadle - Cheadle Heath - Stockport
From 30 October, service will be operated by Diamond - 150 - Gorton - Stretford - Trafford Park - The Trafford Centre
From 30 October, service will be operated by Diamond - 480 - Bolton – Bradshaw – Walves – Ramsbottom – Tottington – Bury
From 30 October, service will be operated by Vision - X50 - Manchester – Trafford Park – The Trafford Centre
From 30 October, service will be operated by Diamond
Services with reduced frequency and/or route changes
- 3/4 - Wigan - Kitt Green circular
Saturday services will operate every 15 minutes - 8 - Bolton - Farnworth - Salford - Manchester
Services to terminate at St Marys Gate instead of Shudehill - 10 - Manchester - Eccles - Brookhouse Estate
Sunday services will operate every 20 minutes - 23 - Stockport - Stretford - Urmston - The Trafford Centre
There will be a reduction in the number of journeys before 9am between Monday and Saturday - 59 - Oldham - Middleton - Manchester
Monday to Friday daytime frequency will reduce to every 12 minutes - 147 - West Didsbury - Withington - Fallowfield - Ancoats
Monday to Friday daytime frequency will reduce to every 20 minutes - 191 - Hazel Grove - Stockport - Levenshulme - Longsight - Manchester
There will be a revision of the Monday to Friday peak hour timetable - 197 - Stockport - Heaton Mersey - Heaton Moor - Manchester
There will be a reduction in the number of journeys before 7am between Monday and Friday - 250 - The Trafford Centre - Trafford Park – Manchester
Monday to Friday daytime frequency will reduce to every 12 minutes - 253/255 - Partington - Carrington - Stretford – Manchester
One peak time Monday to Friday 253 service will be withdrawn - 256 - Flixton - Lostock - Stretford - Hulme - Manchester
Monday to Saturday daytime frequency will reduce to every 15 minutes - 464(b) - Accrington - Haslingden - Bacup - Whitworth – Rochdale
5.13am arrival in Rochdale (Mon-Sat) and 6.13am and 7.13am on Saturday services will be reinstated - 467(b)/468(b) - Bury - Jericho - Bamford - Caldershaw - Spotland - Rochdale
Daytime frequency to increase to every 30 minutes, and to add 5.11am arrival in Rochdale (Mon-Sat) and 6.11am on Saturday
It was reported earlier that Stagecoach were proposing to withdraw far more services in the Stockport and South Manchester areas. They have indeed lost the 11A, 150 and X50 to Diamond on tender (as above) but retained other routes essentially unchanged including the 237 (Glossop) and 358 (New Mills & Hayfield). Quite an expansion for Diamond, let's hope they have the resources.
Not sure why X50 is retained as a tendered service now that the tram is running to the Trafford Centre. There is still the 250.Greater Manchester
Some changes in Great Manchester:
From Sunday 30 October, the following service changes will come into place.
Operator changes
- X50 - Manchester – Trafford Park – The Trafford Centre
From 30 October, service will be operated by DiamondIt was reported earlier that Stagecoach were proposing to withdraw far more services in the Stockport and South Manchester areas. They have indeed lost the 11A, 150 and X50 to Diamond on tender (as above).
markymark2000
On Moderation
The X50 serves areas that the 250 and Metrolink don't such as all around Trafford Park.
First's 327 is being withdrawn. The Transdev 360 is being rerouted and introduced on Sundays to replace it.
_toommm_
Established Member
It would be remiss of me to not talk about the mess that is South Yorkshire. We’re one week away from the October changes, and a few of the timetables are still ‘we don’t yet have an operator for the evening and Sunday services’. First has pulled out of a lot of routes, with previous strongholds of Moorgate and Whiston going entirely to Stagecoach. It’ll be just one bus per bus stand in Rotherham at this rate it’s losing that many buses.
Silver Cobra
Member
Central Bedfordshire Council have come to an agreement with Grant Palmer to take over Stagecoach East's 72/73 service from Biggleswade/Potton/Sandy to Bedford from 31st October, though at a reduced frequency of hourly against the current half-hourly service.
www.grantpalmer.com
I had a feeling that Grant Palmer would step in in place of Stagecoach to retain at least part of the 72/73.
New 72 and 73 services | Grant Palmer
I had a feeling that Grant Palmer would step in in place of Stagecoach to retain at least part of the 72/73.
Last edited by a moderator:
Away in Spain for a week but I note:
Stagecoach Bedford 72/73 there is a timetable for the Grant Palmer replacement service, hourly to Sandy then 2 hourly to either Biggleswade or Potton, which enables a 2 hour round trip. Their website says they are diverting resources from elsewhere but does not say what;
Libra 126, there is a timetable on BusTimes, one bus providing 6 journeys between Wells and Axbridge. Better than nothing but no through possibilities across the border. No sign of any replacement for the X2, Yatton cut off;
Some more info on Hastings and Eastbourne changes, Stagecoach keeping several services under contract. Stagecoach website says their 254/304/305 only goes as far as Hawkhurst but East Sussex says going through to Tunbridge Wells with a Kent CC contribution. Some timetables online but more to come.
Been following the situation in Devon, 5bph to Crediton is madness! Will Stagecoach pull back from this to concentrate resources elsewhere?
Not seen anything on Cambridgeshire- anything I have missed?
I may very well comment further once I am home and into the details!
Stagecoach Bedford 72/73 there is a timetable for the Grant Palmer replacement service, hourly to Sandy then 2 hourly to either Biggleswade or Potton, which enables a 2 hour round trip. Their website says they are diverting resources from elsewhere but does not say what;
Libra 126, there is a timetable on BusTimes, one bus providing 6 journeys between Wells and Axbridge. Better than nothing but no through possibilities across the border. No sign of any replacement for the X2, Yatton cut off;
Some more info on Hastings and Eastbourne changes, Stagecoach keeping several services under contract. Stagecoach website says their 254/304/305 only goes as far as Hawkhurst but East Sussex says going through to Tunbridge Wells with a Kent CC contribution. Some timetables online but more to come.
Been following the situation in Devon, 5bph to Crediton is madness! Will Stagecoach pull back from this to concentrate resources elsewhere?
Not seen anything on Cambridgeshire- anything I have missed?
I may very well comment further once I am home and into the details!
From https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/south-east/a-new-bus-network-for-east-sussex#tab2
While East Sussex County Council come up with:
([ur]https://view.officeapps.live.com/op...ices-6-oct-2022.docx&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK[/url)
So, clarity here then!
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
The 126 is faintly ridiculous. An hourly service from Wells to Weston is replaced by Wells to Axbridge by an erratic timetable 6 times a day which is, at least, something. The other half hasn't been replaced, instead it is left to the remaining 51 Weston to Wrington service - first journey arrives in Weston at 0939, last dep from Weston at 1645 so no good for traditional office hours. However, that still leaves a gap between Winscombe and Axbridge so no opportunity to travel between the two.
Replacing the 178 from Radstock to Bristol is replaced by three buses now, with the 178 now cut to a Mon-Fri only, 4 journeys a day from Citistar (plus a positioning journey of Abus) between Paulton and Brislington P&R, requiring connections to Bristol via the P&R route. Good to see a partial replacement and no criticism of Citistar but it is desperate how poor things are in North and North East Somerset. As for First, the decline since James Freeman's departure is incredible.
Man of Kent
Member
- Joined
- 5 Jul 2018
- Messages
- 908
Noted. I will endeavour to encourage corrections tomorrow!
I don’t think Stagecoach can possibly be right, if they ran unchanged on the 304/305 then each bus would send 49 minutes in Hawkhurst before returning to Hastings. But given that both termini of the 254 are in Kent I can see a Kent CC contribution being sought!
I'm not sure where the money would come from. There is enough of a problem with the swingeing cuts to subsidised services, with councillors in uproar. There are, I gather, also impending cuts in the Dover area to unsubsidised services. Also, Kent might argue that there is little benefit to residents of Tunbridge Wells, and those in Hawkhurst have a good service to Maidstone and not bad to Tenterden as well as quite a few school routes - everywhere else is in East Sussex!
Man of Kent
Member
- Joined
- 5 Jul 2018
- Messages
- 908
I confirm that the Stagecoach website now shows the 254 and 304/305 all as continuing to the existing timetable.
East Sussex also shows this on the Rother tab, but not quite the same message on the Wealden tab.
Thanks for responding so quickly.
Searching around on Cambridgeshire it seems that a plan for - I think - £1.7m to be contributed by Cambridgeshire County Council, to be matched by a further £1.7m from Cambridgeshire and Peterborough partnership (? - CAPCA) has been rejected 8-7 by Cambridgeshire County Council. That would be £3.4m - a lot! Meanwhile it appears tenders have been sought - but far from clear that there will be any money to pay for them! Cambridge-Newmarket being the possible exception due to Suffolk involvement, but not much detail yet! Lots in the press about the impact on people's lives etc. Stagecoach appear to be standing firm that the whole lot is unsustainable. I suspect this is the new owners putting their mark on the business - everything must make a profit. Not against that in theory and they will take the view they have invested in unprofitable / marginal services for a while but they aren't going to lead to profits so cut your losses.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I travelled on one of the services under threat in July. Granted, it's a snapshot but I travelled on a Busway Eclipse for an hour from March to St Ives and reckon about 6 passengers appeared in total. There are some routes that are possibly "on the cusp" such as Huntingdon to Peterborough/St Neots but in the Fens, pickings have always been thin.
Man of Kent
Member
- Joined
- 5 Jul 2018
- Messages
- 908
It was the other way round. The Local Transport Authority is the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority, which has found £1.7m to subsidise services (some of which is from lower concessionary fare payments - and they apparently didn't spot that lower revenue for any operator is likely to threaten services). There was then a proposal at Cambridgeshire County Council to match fund, which is what has been defeated.
However, I don't think there is any malign influence attributable to the new owners. Cambridgeshire outside Cambridge is pretty thin territory, and Covid has accelerated the decline of rural services, plus taken the cream off the city services (including park and ride) that enabled lower performing routes to continue.
I travelled on a 905 recently - the eastern half of what was once the X5 - and numbers barely reached a dozen. The city's bus station was almost deserted compared to pre-Covid, and the only services with anything like decent loads were at chuck-out time from the various sixth form colleges.
So irrespective of ownership, I think the general outcome would have been the same, if perhaps different in detail.
bussnapperwm
Established Member
- Joined
- 18 May 2014
- Messages
- 1,527
A large number of tenders in the West Midlands are set to end permanently in Jan, including Stourbridge circulars 250/251 and evening and Sunday services on a key route (226) linking Dudley, Kingswinford and Brierley Hill with the Dudley areas main Hospital (Russells Hall)
www.birminghammail.co.uk
Bus numbers and school routes that are facing cuts in region
Up to 8,600 people will no longer have access to a bus service within 400 metres
I went on a V2 between St Ives and Chatteris in March and there were not many people on that, but you and I tend to head for the more obscure routes! There were plenty in Chatteris heading for Ely when I started the trip and quite a few heading towards Huntingdon with me. Chatteris will be completely cut off with these changes.
I think I mis-wrote rather than misunderstood! Cambridgeshire rejected funding but CAPCA do seem prepared to.
I also did Cambridge to Newmarket via Burwell in March and this was busy too. Admittedly a good number of students as this was around 16.30. Seemed pretty busy around the bus station.
Interesting to draw any parallels with East Sussex and Devon. In East Sussex Stagecoach appear to have retained everything they proposed to withdraw under tender, no other operators involved, presumably that’s a good ‘win’. Some wins in Devon too but they’ve ended up losing the 5A/5B/5C with the result that they have unexpected competition on the Crediton corridor. Perhaps not what they expected!
Hopefully this link works- cuts by Stagecoach in the Dover and Deal area with some services withdrawn completely. This includes all Deal local services, some local services in Dover and some rural services such as the 92. Sandwich to Deal reduced to hourly, St Margarets removed from the main Dover to Deal service. Some suggestions that Kent are looking at options for some of the withdrawals and they are finding a reduced 91 back road service Dover to Folkestone (which I recommend, it’s quite scenic). This has been referred to previously as ‘coming’, now it is imminent.
www.stagecoachbus.com
ServiceUpdatesArticle
www.stagecoachbus.com
Last edited by a moderator:
I was on the 92 today, reality has kicked in. There is nothing in the buses although the services are ceasing in seven days' time. There is mention in the online documents of Kent County Council reviewing the options, any replacement would really have needed to start straight away. The rumours are of a dial-a-ride set up (my suspicion is an extension of Kent Karrier if that is true). Some of those in the pit villages are not exactly wealthy and are concerned about taxi fares)!Hopefully this link works- cuts by Stagecoach in the Dover and Deal area with some services withdrawn completely. This includes all Deal local services, some local services in Dover and some rural services such as the 92. Sandwich to Deal reduced to hourly, St Margarets removed from the main Dover to Deal service. Some suggestions that Kent are looking at options for some of the withdrawals and they are finding a reduced 91 back road service Dover to Folkestone (which I recommend, it’s quite scenic). This has been referred to previously as ‘coming’, now it is imminent.
ServiceUpdatesArticle
On the other hand, the Western Heights are going from 3 buses a day (Mon - Sat) to 2 buses an hour Mon - Sat (first bus 05:56, last bus 18:56) and hourly on Sunday. Unless there are plans for the Immigration Removal Centre I am unaware of, there is no new development, otherwise there are about 3 or 4 dozen houses and stacks of parking. If anyone is in Dover, take a trip up there, the views are great. Last time I went (in the 3 buses a day regime), there were three of us onboard (the last return trip) so not a fat lot of demand, I'd have thought.
Last edited by a moderator:
It's worth noting that these are services that have generally been "underused" - not to say for those people who do use them it won't be difficult, but we're talking half-full Solo size here. The real element as to whether there will be any replacement will be whether anyone can operate them at a price Kent County Council (KCC) deem affordable.Hopefully this link works- cuts by Stagecoach in the Dover and Deal area with some services withdrawn completely. This includes all Deal local services, some local services in Dover and some rural services such as the 92. Sandwich to Deal reduced to hourly, St Margarets removed from the main Dover to Deal service. Some suggestions that Kent are looking at options for some of the withdrawals and they are finding a reduced 91 back road service Dover to Folkestone (which I recommend, it’s quite scenic). This has been referred to previously as ‘coming’, now it is imminent.
ServiceUpdatesArticle
The 91 change back to two-hourly was originally intended before Covid, but was delayed during that period.
It is believed KCC are looking for a replacement, but see above.
There are only three villages served uniquely by these services - Shepherdswell, Eythorne and Elvington. The former has an hourly train service to both Dover and Canterbury and is the best connected of the three. The latter two will still be served - at least in the interim - by Regent Coaches 54* series, so they will not be completely cut off until anything else kicks in. Not daily, not peaks, and very limited opportunities, but if needs must, they would provide an option, even if one way.
Without seeing a route map of the revised route, but knowing what traffic can be like to Aycliffe if the Docks go belly up, I can't help but wonder if this is a design not to increase the service to Western Heights, but that vehicles may reduce their delay to Aycliffe by only having to queue one way - and usually the better direction. Aycliffe regularly has to lose its service when there are problems at the docks because the buses simply can't get there.
I don't know whether these would be classed as substantive, but there are frequency cuts and a few route alterations across the West Midlands from 30th October.
The shortage of drivers is one motivation.
More information on National Express West Midlands website
The shortage of drivers is one motivation.
More information on National Express West Midlands website
I have no doubt that they are overserved. Eythorne and Elvington currently get an hourly service and, unfortunately, it serves more green fields (and, probably, sheep) than houses in between Whitfield and the villages. However, to go from that to almost nothing does seem rather drastic. Maybe I didn't stress it enough, but my concern is that there is a significant gap between these services ending and any replacement starting. Ideally it would be fairly seamless. Although I think both Kent County Council and Stagecoach could have done better, I feel that much more opprobrium should be heaped upon central government for its repeated attacks on local government expenditure while encouraging new, usually fairly pointless, initiatives. And, of course, the current shortage of bus drivers has not helped. I do seem to remember how we have solved previous shortages, but government dogma seems to have prevented that.
The 541/3/4 would provide some service, particularly for those who use the current service for shopping (Deal may not be ideal, but some service is better than nothing). However, may have a very limited life - https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/council-goes-ahead-with-plans-to-axe-38-bus-routes-275681/.
Smart thinking! I haven't been able to check but a return via the North Military Road makes sense, there is only a minor diversion to the Citadel.
Unfortunately, I have only ever used the bus to go to the Western Heights, not to return (I have no problem walking downhill and I have never fancied a two hour wait)) and hadn't thought through how the bus gets down. I do seem to remember once being on a bus which went up via North Military Road (I suspect when it was the 593).
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
EDIT:
Publicity that there will be a new network for Dover seen on 25th October in both Dover buses I travelled on
Kent County Council announce those Regent Services will end in February 2023.
https://www.kent.gov.uk/roads-and-t...us-services-in-kent/bus-service-changes#tab-5
Last edited:
Looking at Stagecoach South East website on the eve of the substantial withdrawals in East Kent it appears that the 82 Deal local service has a slight reprieve, with one bus to provide a 90 minute service from Deal to Upper Deal, Kingsdown and Walmer. Still plenty of other parts to be cut off though and significant other reductions.
| 82/82A | Upper Deal – Deal town centre – Walmer – Kingsdown | Change | Stagecoach expects to be able to continue operate this service with funding from KCC. A new timetable will apply with buses every 90 minutes. Please check our Twitter feed @StagecoachSE for further updates. |
Oh dear me... "substantial", "cut off", "significant"... is this not overegging the pudding somewhat?
In contrast to Stagecoach East, Stagecoach South East have made deliberate attempts to keep as much of the network going as possible - see e.g. route 64, mopping up a whole host of Dover Town pieces previously attached to other routes. Whole route withdrawals are fairly minor, and whilst there have been some frequency changes, these are mainly reducing the frequency to areas that in better times have probably been over-bussed down to something more like what the passenger numbers deserve, if not historical norm. Obviously that's no help if you live there, but it's hardly going from a half-hourly service down to nothing.
Even in Deal, service 83 is a back-roads service to areas that will still have main road services, and Sandown is about 3/4 mile at it's furthest point from a random spot in the town centre, maybe a mile to the bus stops at South Street which, as the name suggests, are in the very south of the town. Service 84 takes 18 minutes to do the round trip to South Street. Again, it won't be suitable for everyone, but that's the sort of distance you walk a dog twice a day.
- Status