Which section of line is 'signed' by the fewest TOC traincrew?

[6Gman]

The TfW Pwllheli branch?

I was going to suggest that.

In my day it had (IIRC) 6 drivers and 6 conductors and nobody else came north of (again IIRC) Barmouth.

So, Pwllheli-Barmouth 6 of each.

(And 4 of the drivers had the same surname!)

EDIT: Having seen the post by @craigybagel I see that things have changed - and Pwllheli depot has grown!

 

[warwickshire]

West Ruslip to West Ealing. Another contender only one Aylesbury Drivers link. Plus two Aylesbury guards. Chiltern Toc. However Stretch of Line can be considered for this purpose Northalt junction to Greenford Lul Junction. Around the side of Greenford East. Just before the shared Bit Between Greenford Lul junction and West Ealing of where Gwr Paddington drivers share the line.

But to Further add Northalt junction to Greenford Lul. On chiltern that short section of line. On the West Ruslip to West Ealing. Of which a guard is required for even though obvious reasons remaining on train must for guards due to only x2 Aylesbury guards that sign it. Be the winner for the fewest amount of guards. Unless elsewhere a section only has one.

 

[InkyScrolls]

It is cancelled tomorrow (post strike) - and has been frequently cancelled in recent winters but it is in the WTT.

Regardless it won't run now till next year. The drivers sit spare till the diagram is removed in December.

 

[507020]

Regardless it won't run now till next year. The drivers sit spare till the diagram is removed in December.

Why would it be removed in December? 2 trips run in winter Blackpool North - Hellifield. I used one last September and found the change at Hellifield an interesting addition to an afternoon at Ribblehead and the route back via Clitheroe a fitting end to the day. I had more problems with the TPE to Carlisle being full and standing before it even reached Preston.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Why would it be removed in December? 2 trips run in winter Blackpool North - Hellifield. I used one last September and found the change at Hellifield an interesting addition to an afternoon at Ribblehead and the route back via Clitheroe a fitting end to the day. I had more problems with the TPE to Carlisle being full and standing before it even reached Preston.

I've no idea why they don't run at least the portion South of Hellifield all year round; it's a useful service than I, for one, would use a lot!

 

[507020]

I've no idea why they don't run at least the portion South of Hellifield all year round; it's a useful service than I, for one, would use a lot!

But my point is that they DO, or at least did run the South of Hellifield portion all year round as recently as last year and I know because I used the service in winter. Through running from Lancashire to Carlisle is actually irrelevent as long as a single Leeds - Carlisle service runs and a visit to Hellifield station to change is likely a welcome addition to all journeys on the line given their weekly nature. Passengers from Clitheroe may also wish to travel towards Bentham/Lancaster/Morecambe and not Settle.

 

[RPM]

But to Further add Northalt junction to Greenford Lul. On chiltern that short section of line. On the West Ruslip to West Ealing. Of which a guard is required for even though obvious reasons remaining on train must for guards due to only x2 Aylesbury guards that sign it. Be the winner for the fewest amount of guards. Unless elsewhere a section only has one.

High Wycombe guards also sign it, although we're only talking 2 or 3 individuals.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why would it be removed in December? 2 trips run in winter Blackpool North - Hellifield. I used one last September and found the change at Hellifield an interesting addition to an afternoon at Ribblehead and the route back via Clitheroe a fitting end to the day. I had more problems with the TPE to Carlisle being full and standing before it even reached Preston.

From experience hardly anybody uses it. DalesRail has value (and still might if extended for a longer operating year, though probably not the middle of winter), there just isn't massive demand for Preston to/from Hellifield, and most people won't change for that sort of trip. It's a gross waste of money. Run it to/from Carlisle (or at *least* Ribblehead) or don't bother.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Oct 2022 ==

But my point is that they DO, or at least did run the South of Hellifield portion all year round as recently as last year and I know because I used the service in winter. Through running from Lancashire to Carlisle is actually irrelevent as long as a single Leeds - Carlisle service runs and a visit to Hellifield station to change is likely a welcome addition to all journeys on the line given their weekly nature.

You're misunderstanding what it's for. DalesRail is basically a coach tour on rails, or, er, a railtour that happens to be operated by a TOC. Nobody would do an indirect version of that without guarantees to the connections, least of all while Northern is cancelling stuff at random. It needs to go to Carlisle (if you want to get the "do the S&C" daytrippers) or at least Ribblehead (for the Three Peaks hikers), or don't bother.

Passengers from Clitheroe may also wish to travel towards Bentham/Lancaster/Morecambe and not Settle.

Early on a Sunday morning? Maybe one man, his dog and his bicycle if you're lucky.

 

[VauxhallNova]

I would have though Huddersfield to Leeds is in with a shout here.

 

[Ken H]

From experience hardly anybody uses it. DalesRail has value (and still might if extended for a longer operating year, though probably not the middle of winter), there just isn't massive demand for Preston to/from Hellifield, and most people won't change for that sort of trip. It's a gross waste of money. Run it to/from Carlisle (or at *least* Ribblehead) or don't bother.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Oct 2022 ==



You're misunderstanding what it's for. DalesRail is basically a coach tour on rails, or, er, a railtour that happens to be operated by a TOC. Nobody would do an indirect version of that without guarantees to the connections, least of all while Northern is cancelling stuff at random. It needs to go to Carlisle (if you want to get the "do the S&C" daytrippers) or at least Ribblehead (for the Three Peaks hikers), or don't bother.



Early on a Sunday morning? Maybe one man, his dog and his bicycle if you're lucky.

The whole provision is a joke
In the high summer S&C gets very over-crowded, and 4 coach trains dont cut it.
People travelling from Leeds to Carlisle to gawp at the scenery could be catered for by a summer dated longer out and back train with few stops (Keighley and Skipton? Settle, maybe but short platforms). Leave Leeds about 10, 90 - 120 mins in Carlisle, then back to Leeds.
The Sunday provision is poor. S&C is mostly leisure (except for some commuting to/from Leeds) so why the rubbish Sunday provision.
And in Nov - March there is little traffic unless you get a bright sunny day. They could take some trains out of the timetable.
And in the Dales the provision of information to visitors is woeful. Northern need to be more proactive. But this isnt their core business so probably too much bother.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I would have though Huddersfield to Leeds is in with a shout here.

Is that not signed by all of Huddersfield and most of Leeds, though? That's quite a number of crew!

 

[30907]

From experience hardly anybody uses it. DalesRail has value (and still might if extended for a longer operating year, though probably not the middle of winter), there just isn't massive demand for Preston to/from Hellifield, and most people won't change for that sort of trip. It's a gross waste of money. Run it to/from Carlisle (or at *least* Ribblehead) or don't bother.

If it's not used in winter (with the early return time) then cancel it (and ignore the outcry from whoever used it).
However, post #57 indicates why the Hellifield-Preston-Hellifield bit costs virtually nothing to run whereas the summer version is expensive.
(I would rejig it as Blackpool-Ribblehead twice a Sunday from mid Feb to early Nov but that's further OT.)

 

[Neptune]

Nope. TPE run the stopper.

For northern Huddersfield and Leeds drivers do sign the whole route and Leeds conductors sign all but Bradley Wood to Heaton Lodge and York and Man Vic sign Heaton Lodge to Leeds.

 

[Watershed]

Is that not signed by all of Huddersfield and most of Leeds, though? That's quite a number of crew!

Think that might be comment made in jest, given the level of disruption to services on that axis over recent months...

 

[InkyScrolls]

Think that might be comment made in jest, given the level of disruption to services on that axis over recent months...

Ah! Yes, that seems likely.

 

[bunnahabhain]

There's a few oddities that I can think of that are diversionary routes, such as High Level Goods at Trent. I sign it and I can think of three or four others, but I'm not sure many others at Nottingham do, a handful tops. Recently TMs have been given diagrams to "conduct" trains between East Midlands Parkway and Nottingham when blocks have been on.

 

[newtownmgr]

How are the sleepers crewed?

GBRF

 

[busestrains]

West Ruslip to West Ealing. Another contender only one Aylesbury Drivers link. Plus two Aylesbury guards. Chiltern Toc. However Stretch of Line can be considered for this purpose Northalt junction to Greenford Lul Junction. Around the side of Greenford East. Just before the shared Bit Between Greenford Lul junction and West Ealing of where Gwr Paddington drivers share the line.

But to Further add Northalt junction to Greenford Lul. On chiltern that short section of line. On the West Ruslip to West Ealing. Of which a guard is required for even though obvious reasons remaining on train must for guards due to only x2 Aylesbury guards that sign it. Be the winner for the fewest amount of guards. Unless elsewhere a section only has one.

High Wycombe guards also sign it, although we're only talking 2 or 3 individuals.

I had no idea that Aylesbury and High Wycombe still had Guards based there! I thought since the 121s left they were no longer based there! So do these Aylesbury and High Wycombe based Guards also work the locomotive hauled trains to and from London Marylebone and DMUs North of Banbury too? As the West Ealing service is only once a week so not much other work for them otherwise?

 

[craigybagel]

I had no idea that Aylesbury and High Wycombe still had Guards based there! I thought since the 121s left they were no longer based there! So do these Aylesbury and High Wycombe based Guards also work the locomotive hauled trains to and from London Marylebone and DMUs North of Banbury too? As the West Ealing service is only once a week so not much other work for them otherwise?

I know at one point they were RPIs who retained guards competencies purely for the West Ealing service (and formerly the 121s) - and separate from the guards depots at Banbury, Birmingham and Stourbridge.

 

[Watershed]

I had no idea that Aylesbury and High Wycombe still had Guards based there! I thought since the 121s left they were no longer based there! So do these Aylesbury and High Wycombe based Guards also work the locomotive hauled trains to and from London Marylebone and DMUs North of Banbury too? As the West Ealing service is only once a week so not much other work for them otherwise?

As far as I'm aware they're actually RPI "depots", with some of the RPIs being guard-trained.

 

[warwickshire]

As far as I'm aware they're actually RPI "depots", with some of the RPIs being guard-trained.

Only Aylesbury two guards only mainly RPI but guard trained. Only booked job is the West Ruslip to West Ealing on Wednesday's. However very occasionally do the odd trip between Banbury and Birmingham Moor Street to keep up route and 165 168 Knowledge and are used when a severe shortage has occurred However note that is very exceptional and very rare.
However

 

[warwickshire]

High Wycombe guards also sign it, although we're only talking 2 or 3 individuals.

High Wycombe have gone. Or moved on promotion wise to drivers.

 

[Geeves]

Guide Bridge to Hadfield and Glossop signed by Manchester Piccadilly depot

 

[Watershed]

Guide Bridge to Hadfield and Glossop signed by Manchester Piccadilly depot

It's rather a large depot, though. Probably on the order of 150 guards, I'd have thought?

 

[busestrains]

Up until 2019 all twelve coach trains on C2C required Guards and there was only sixteen of them. I believe they signed all three routes on the London Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness line. So at sixteen that would have been one of the smallest amount of Guards to sign a line. However i heard in the last few months there was only four of them left (which resulted in plenty of short formations) as many left as soon as the full DOO had been announced.

What i always wondered was how C2C managed to remove Guards from their twelve coach trains and make them DOO so easily. I heard nothing from ASLEF or RMT about it. No strikes or disputes or anything.

Also i know lots of Southern staff do but how many of the Drivers and Guards at Southeastern currently sign the Hastings to Ore section? There is only one train a day in one direction only (Westbound) so it must be a very small amount who sign it?

Also how many Guards at Southeastern sign the Redhill to Tonbridge section and how many sign the Redhill to London section? It must be quite small amounts?

 

[CarrotPie]

Also i know lots of Southern staff do but how many of the Drivers and Guards at Southeastern currently sign the Hastings to Ore section? There is only one train a day in one direction only (Westbound) so it must be a very small amount who sign it?

All Tonbridge/Hastings drivers and guards (and any others that sign Tonbridge-Hastings)

Also how many Guards at Southeastern sign the Redhill to Tonbridge section and how many sign the Redhill to London section? It must be quite small amounts?

All Tonbridge guards sign Tonbridge-Redhill so they can (and do) run the Sourhern shuttle, but they all also sign the BML from London Bridge to Redhill.

 

[car1oabarth]

Preston - Ormskirk? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure only Blackburn sign the Ormskirk branch.

 

[Watershed]

Preston - Ormskirk? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure only Blackburn sign the Ormskirk branch.

Also signed by Blackpool North, except the ex-TPE link. In fact for many years, until Blackburn depot opened recently, Blackpool North were the only depot to sign the route.

 

[Matt1981]

If the OP specifically means TOC traincrew then I'd suggest Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Quainton Road is a contender. Only a handful of Aylesbury drivers sign it. Lots of FOC drivers sign the route of course.

Not currently operational railway north of Blackgrove Road, and no regular planned moves north of AVP for crews to keep their route knowledge

 

[tiptoptaff]

Okehampton is only signed by Exeter Conductors (not Train Managers) and Exeter drivers, Exmouth only signed by Exeter Guards and drivers (both grades of drivers and guards), likewise Barnstaple.

Exeter West alone is quite a sizable depot, though