Redevelopment Plans for Liverpool Street - Development Policy Going Backwards

[Wolfie]

we have a similar list, but Mcs isn’t on it. Whilst on the subject, the Wetherspooms used to be the one with the highest turnover in the country.

Your last sentence doesn't surprise me. That place is always heaving.

 

[43066]

Your last sentence doesn't surprise me. That place is always heaving.

And one of the very worst pubs I’ve ever been to. Seriously bad, even by Wetherspoon’s standards.

Dirty Dicks over the road is much better, albeit often also very crowded.

 

[Wolfie]

And one of the very worst pubs I’ve ever been to. Seriously bad, even by Wetherspoon’s standards.

Dirty Dicks over the road is much better, albeit often also very crowded.

Years ago l used to like the Hamilton Hall for Spoons beer festivals. It always seemed to have more of the beers on and keep them well. Over the last 10 years or so though it's been rough as hell l agree. I also generally agree about Dirty Dicks although l had a run-in once with a manager who tried telling me that a pint of Sarson's taste-alike was fine.....

 

[Class 170101]

Render below which shows the extent of the demolished concourse (essentially everything up to the tracks) and replacement with a double deck concourse.

No idea why they feel a double deck concourse is better here, making the main concourse the exact opposite of what it is currently with low ceilings rather than looking up to the roof and large screens.

If top deck had links to the platforms in the same way Kings Cross does then perhaps there are some benefits but I don't understand how NR want the fare paying public to spread out because there don't appear to be such links so why would the punters go there? The top deck as it is today doesn't seem that busy in my experience.

 

[XAM2175]

The replacement looks horrible and not at all in keeping, whereas the current one really complements the original trainshed.

I can't say with any certainty that this is the case here, but as a general rule in architectural conservation in Britain nowadays having new work mimic old work is seen as a negative. There's a belief instead that the public should be able to easily recognise additions or alterations to the original fabric. It was definitely the case for the trainshed extension at St. Pancras, for example.

I stress again though that this is simply an informative statement and not any claim that the Liverpool Street proposal is implementing it.

Is that one of Nederlandse Spoorwegen's Sprinter EMUs in the bottom right?

Yes, it's a Sprinter Lighttrain.

 

[camflyer]

And one of the very worst pubs I’ve ever been to. Seriously bad, even by Wetherspoon’s standards.

Dirty Dicks over the road is much better, albeit often also very crowded.

It's fine for a quick pint before catching your train but not the sort of place you would want to hang out for a few hours. At least the toilets aren't a 5 minute walk away as they are in many Wetherspoons.

These days I would have thought that the Barrel Vaults at St Pancras would have surpassed it for turnover. That place is bigger and is always packed.

 

[swt_passenger]

I can't say with any certainty that this is the case here, but as a general rule in architectural conservation in Britain nowadays having new work mimic old work is seen as a negative. There's a belief instead that the public should be able to easily recognise additions or alterations to the original fabric. It was definitely the case for the trainshed extension at St. Pancras, for example.

I think a more recent roof extension, that sort of “tall glass box” section connecting the former Waterloo International roof to the main station roof, was also a case of it being designed to be intentionally different to everything else. Not sure if the planners insisted, or it was just a design choice.

 

[eldomtom2]

I can't say with any certainty that this is the case here, but as a general rule in architectural conservation in Britain nowadays having new work mimic old work is seen as a negative. There's a belief instead that the public should be able to easily recognise additions or alterations to the original fabric. It was definitely the case for the trainshed extension at St. Pancras, for example.

Of course, such a view has been developed by a small and isolated group and is now touted as objective fact...

 

[yorksrob]

Ooh, it's an interesting argument really !

I must admit, I like to know what's what, so a clear distinction between what's new and old works for me. And in that wider context, I'm not so worried about the idea of skyscrapers next to old buildings. The concept seems to be the essence of a modern city.

In terms of Liverpool St, I find the idea that the McDonalds building might be a replica, a bit unnerving. I've always liked to think of it as a link to the old station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ooh, it's an interesting argument really !

I must admit, I like to know what's what, so a clear distinction between what's new and old works for me. And in that wider context, I'm not so worried about the idea of skyscrapers next to old buildings. The concept seems to be the essence of a modern city.

In terms of Liverpool St, I find the idea that the McDonalds building might be a replica, a bit unnerving. I've always liked to think of it as a link to the old station.

It is a replica. Look at it from above on Google Maps, it is obvious.

 

[yorksrob]

It is a replica. Look at it from above on Google Maps, it is obvious.

It looks as though a lot of work has been done on the ground floor to make it a retail unit. Other than that, it looks to be the same building.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It looks as though a lot of work has been done on the ground floor to make it a retail unit. Other than that, it looks to be the same building.

Look at it from above. It is obviously not an old building.

It is possible the frontage was retained, that's not unusual. I seem to recall the Liverpool Exchange hotel is a new building inside the station's old frontage, for example.

 

[yorksrob]

Look at it from above. It is obviously not an old building.

It is possible the frontage was retained, that's not unusual. I seem to recall the Liverpool Exchange hotel is a new building inside the station's old frontage, for example.

Or its just been re-roofed.

Look at the upper storeys. They really are identical to the building there in the old days.

 

[TAS]

Or its just been re-roofed.

Look at the upper storeys. They really are identical to the building there in the old days.

Some searching turns up an album of photos on Flickr by Tim Brown documenting the redevelopment, a number of which (1 - 2 - 3 - 4) make it quite clear that the building originally on that site was completely demolished without even the facade being retained, and a new one (with similar facade) was built on a metal/concrete frame.

 

[yorksrob]

Some searching turns up an album of photos on Flickr by Tim Brown documenting the redevelopment, a number of which (1 - 2 - 3 - 4) make it quite clear that the building originally on that site was completely demolished without even the facade being retained, and a new one (with similar facade) was built on a metal/concrete frame.

What an excellent set of photos.

They certainly did a good job of it.

 

[James H]

Plans on show today and tomorrow 12 till 7 - or you can download the exhibition boards here.

Have your say on our initial proposals for the project including
station improvements.

Great Eastern Room, Andaz London Liverpool Street hotel

Tuesday 22 – Wednesday 23 November 12-7pm

If you are unable to join in person, you can view and download a digital version of the exhibition material below and provide feedback by using our digital feedback form.

 

[tomuk]

Its very subtle in those exhibition boards but there is hardly any mention of the Shard\Paddington Square like block being dumped on top of the concourse\hotel. Bravo to Sellars.

 

[TAS]

Yes, what's missing is quite notable. Only one image with the new blocks in, and even then only as translucent shapes. Mention of retail space, but none of the internal images shows a shop or food outlet, except when showcasing the restoration of rooms from the old hotel. Still hard to get a sense of what the rebuilt station would feel like to use. There's some seemingly positive details, e.g. more barriers (very much needed!), more escalators, better cycle facilities - all excellent ideas, but difficult to understand how it would all work!

 

[thomalex]

This is a disaster. It's like Centre Point was dumped on the front of the station. Nice dark outdoor public square to boot, who needs daylight anyway.

 

[Wolfie]

View attachment 124156

View attachment 124157

This is a disaster. It's like Centre Point was dumped on the front of the station. Nice dark outdoor public square to boot, who needs daylight anyway.

That is an absolute monstrosity.

 

[trebor79]

Horrific.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That, I would agree, is monstrous.

 

[Mikey C]

I will definitely comb through the details tomorrow. The improvements are welcome BUT that new building is appalling and glossed over.

They include this nice illustration of the current buildings, but not what it will look like afterwards, which is highly dubious.

 

[yorksrob]

Sounds like a money making wheeze with little architectural merit.

 

[Tobbes]

Hideous. The 1991 construction at the front of the station is in sympathy with the retained trainshed. This is the antithesis of it, and should not be allowed.

 

[dosxuk]

While I'm not against redevelopment of the station concourse in principle, that proposal is horrific.

They would be better off announcing they hate heritage and demolish the whole complex and start again than trying to make that work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hideous. The 1991 construction at the front of the station is in sympathy with the retained trainshed. This is the antithesis of it, and should not be allowed.

I have no issues with a late-St-Pancras, Manchester Piccadilly or Kings Cross style blending of a new structure with an historic building. Kings Cross I think is a beautiful station with the two parts complementing each other wonderfully. And I don't even particularly like Liverpool St station as it is.

That, however, is an utter monstrosity. It reminds me, in the first instance, of Cannon Street, which is functional but rather ugly.

 

[greyman42]

I have no issues with a late-St-Pancras, Manchester Piccadilly or Kings Cross style blending of a new structure with an historic building. Kings Cross I think is a beautiful station with the two parts complementing each other wonderfully. And I don't even particularly like Liverpool St station as it is.

That, however, is an utter monstrosity. It reminds me, in the first instance, of Cannon Street, which is functional but rather ugly.

Are you referring to the picture in #110? If so i think it is hard to make a judgement as you only see the bottom of the building.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you referring to the picture in #110? If so i think it is hard to make a judgement as you only see the bottom of the building.

Yes.

The bottom is enough to see that it's a total monstrosity. Unless it isn't planned to be white, but in that case why not make the artist's impression actually look like it? It's the colour that's the main thing that makes it out of keeping. If the steelwork was a darker colour it would probably not look so bad.

 

[306024]

Sounds like a money making wheeze with little architectural merit.

Well obviously it has to make money otherwise you don't get all the changes to the station itself, which they claim will not cost the tax or fare payer.

Anyway, having been to the exhibition in the GE hotel today it is clear this will get mixed reviews.

Losing the replica part of the western trainshed is probably the most controversial part of the scheme. The proposed replacement doesn't seem to compliment the listed part, and will doubtless get objections from various bodies. Getting natural light to the lower concourse has been considered, but the need to increase concourse space above may compromise this.

On the positive side, removing a lot of the existing clutter is welcome, as is improved access for all. Separating the retail from the platform area is an improvement, and hopefully the Kindertransport statue will get a more dignified position than outside McDonalds.

A video shown at the exhibition should be on Vimeo and YouTube soon which makes things a bit clearer, but will doubtless draw more criticism too.

There are lots of planning hoops to jump through yet, this is early days so we'll just have to await further developments. I just wonder who will water the tree shown in the artists impressions.