Manchester Piccadilly P13 & 14 new platforms

[td97]

The long-neglected Manchester Piccadilly platforms 13 and 14 are to be renewed later this year/early 2023.
There will be mainly accessibility improvements with compliant platform/track offsets, resurfacing and the big win is tactile paving.
There's planned to be a Christmas 2022 block and weekend closures in January (subject to confirmation).

 

[The Planner]

The long-neglected Manchester Piccadilly platforms 13 and 14 are to be renewed later this year/early 2023.
There will be mainly accessibility improvements with compliant platform/track offsets, resurfacing and the big win is tactile paving.
There's planned to be a Christmas 2022 block and weekend closures in January (subject to confirmation).

Nothing to be confirmed, blocks are happening. Will be a period with trains running through without stopping.

 

[plugwash]

Any idea what the arrangements will be for passengers? shuttle bus between picadilly and oxford road?

 

[coxxy]

Slightly unrelated... but is the plan for 15 and 16 officially dead again yet?

 

[alf]

Slightly unrelated... but is the plan for 15 and 16 officially dead again yet?

Yes, I wrongly hoped this topic was about the desperately needed, but expensive new 15 & 16 platforms, not about putting in tactile paving in the existing 13 & 14.

Not being a Mancunian I assumed 13 & 14 were the numbers of the new platforms.

What wonderful news if 15 & 16 & associated tracks were to be built. That would be an improvement worth trumpeting.

 

[Flying Snail]

Slightly unrelated... but is the plan for 15 and 16 officially dead again yet?

Has there ever been an actual plan or just vague wishes and promises?

 

[snowball]

Has there ever been an actual plan or just vague wishes and promises?

There was most definitely an actual plan but it's getting to be quite a few years ago now. If was to have followed on from the Ordsall Chord. Network Rail submitted an application for a Transport and Works Order for two extra through platforms at Piccadilly and realignment of the four through platforms at Oxford Road with closure of the bay. It underwent public consultations and a public inquiry. The inspector's report on the inquiry was sent to the then SoS for transport, Chris Grayling, but he never issued a decision for or against it, though he made disparaging remarks about the cost.

 

[swt_passenger]

There was most definitely an actual plan but it's getting to be quite a few years ago now. If was to have followed on from the Ordsall Chord. Network Rail submitted an application for a Transport and Works Order for two extra through platforms at Piccadilly and realignment of the four through platforms at Oxford Road with closure of the bay. It underwent public consultations and a public inquiry. The inspector's report on the inquiry was sent to the then SoS for transport, Chris Grayling, but he never issued a decision for or against it, though he made disparaging remarks about the cost.

He probably read a post in these forums that claimed it could all be fixed with smart timetabling, digital signalling, batteries or hydrogen - or some combination…

 

[py_megapixel]

One of the biggest improvements they could make in my opinion, short of building a new set of platforms, would be to fence off the almost entirely unused rearmost sections of the platform faces (i.e. the western end of P13 and the eastern end of P14). Not sure if there's some kind of modular solution that could be used to allow the fences to be removed in the event of a Pendolino diversion (which appears to be the only circumstance in which passengers need to board/alight in those sections). That way passengers could spread out a lot more without danger of falling onto the track.

 

[JD2168]

Hopefully these improvements at platforms 13 & 14 will include a way of it not feeling you are in the middle of a strong Gale or like in a wind tunnel whilst stood waiting for your train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think reversing the ends used would be sensible. The 13 end is wider.

 

[py_megapixel]

I think reversing the ends used would be sensible. The 13 end is wider.

Presumably that has the disadvantage that you need a load of different stopping points for all the different stock that uses it, whereas the current arrangement means everything just goes all the way along and stops at the front. You could stop everything halfway along, but for shorter trains, that wouldn't line up neatly with where the stairs are. Also, when there is disruption that means that trains "stack up", the rear bit sometimes has another train in it. I can't imagine those trains sitting in the station throat instead would be a good idea.

(this is another reason to fence off the unused sections - so that people don't try to board a train which has stopped but not released the doors because it isn't in the right place)

 

[yorkie]

Can we stick to updates regarding what is actually happening in this thread please.

If anyone would like to create a separate thread for changes you'd like to see, feel free to do so!

Thanks

 

[317 forever]

The long-neglected Manchester Piccadilly platforms 13 and 14 are to be renewed later this year/early 2023.
There will be mainly accessibility improvements with compliant platform/track offsets, resurfacing and the big win is tactile paving.
There's planned to be a Christmas 2022 block and weekend closures in January (subject to confirmation).

I reckoned on changing to those platforms on the Christmas Bank Holiday. There may be bus replacements between Piccadilly and Oxford Road then.

 

[The Planner]

I reckoned on changing to those platforms on the Christmas Bank Holiday. There may be bus replacements between Piccadilly and Oxford Road then.

It will take longer than that.

 

[Bertie the bus]

The long-neglected Manchester Piccadilly platforms 13 and 14 are to be renewed later this year/early 2023.
There will be mainly accessibility improvements with compliant platform/track offsets, resurfacing and the big win is tactile paving.
There's planned to be a Christmas 2022 block and weekend closures in January (subject to confirmation).

So lots of disruption for virtually no gain then. Tactile paving is not a big win. P13/14 are crawling with staff and if you step foot over the red line you are guaranteed to get shouted at so there is absolutely no possibility of visually impaired passengers getting too close to the platform edge.

 

[td97]

So lots of disruption for virtually no gain then. Tactile paving is not a big win.

Yes it is. Every platform on the network without tactile paving is too a high risk. This incident is a key theme with every platform improvement project.

Report 01/2021: Person struck by a train at Eden Park station

RAIB has today released its report into a person struck by a train at Eden Park station, south-east London, 26 February 2020.

www.gov.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes it is. Every platform on the network without tactile paving is too a high risk. This incident is a key theme with every platform improvement project.

Report 01/2021: Person struck by a train at Eden Park station

RAIB has today released its report into a person struck by a train at Eden Park station, south-east London, 26 February 2020.

www.gov.uk

Tactile paving at Picc is probably low risk, because you get barked at before you get anywhere near the edge!

 

[py_megapixel]

So lots of disruption for virtually no gain then. Tactile paving is not a big win. P13/14 are crawling with staff and if you step foot over the red line you are guaranteed to get shouted at so there is absolutely no possibility of visually impaired passengers getting too close to the platform edge.

Anything that reduces platform dwell times is a good thing in such a busy corridor, and if this work involves reducing the somewhat large platform gap - which is what "compliant platform/track offsets" sounds like - then it will allow people to board and alight faster.

Of course, the aim should really be true level boarding - but the idea that will get anywhere near Castlefield in the foreseeable future is but a pipe-dream. (Unless TfW sticks a FLIRT onto a random North Wales Coast diagram at some point in the future, as they have a habit of doing with Sprinters at the moment)

 

[Bertie the bus]

Yes it is. Every platform on the network without tactile paving is too a high risk. This incident is a key theme with every platform improvement project.

Report 01/2021: Person struck by a train at Eden Park station

RAIB has today released its report into a person struck by a train at Eden Park station, south-east London, 26 February 2020.

www.gov.uk

Just selectively partially quoting a post and then posting a link to a completely irrelevant story adds nothing.

 

[Jozhua]

Picc 13/14 could absolutely handle more passengers...if they were on a metro line. However, without PSDs, level boarding and trains designed with frequent, wide doors, it's just not going to happen.

Honestly, I worry about the safety of 13/14 - far too busy to handle the volumes of passengers on there. Tactile paving is a welcome improvement, but they are not going to be safe until new capacity is added.

 

[Mollman]

So lots of disruption for virtually no gain then. Tactile paving is not a big win. P13/14 are crawling with staff and if you step foot over the red line you are guaranteed to get shouted at so there is absolutely no possibility of visually impaired passengers getting too close to the platform edge.

It will get rid of the announcement they play every minute now to warn people that some platforms do not have tactile paving!

 

[GoneSouth]

Tactile paving at Picc is probably low risk, because you get barked at before you get anywhere near the edge!

Barking at someone without sight to step back behind the red line is less than helpful. They probably don’t know they’ve stepped over it so why should they think someone is barking at them! By the time the barking person has made it clear who they are barking at it might be too late.

The platform width, overcrowding and relatively high frequency of trains I would have thought made it a higher risk than many.

Tactile paving on every platform is absolutely the right thing to do.

 

[The Snap]

Works now well underway on platforms 13 and 14. Platform closed on a Christmas Eve and will remain so until 3rd Jan

 

[td97]

Indeed, a video showing works was posted on Twitter yesterday too

https://twitter.com/GrahamTheGuard/status/1607751108197494787

 

[htafc]

What are the arrangements in terms of replacement bus services?

 

[Cantab26]

What are the arrangements in terms of replacement bus services?

Today it looked like a half hourly loop: Piccadilly, Oxford Road, Deansgate, Piccadilly.

Plenty of confusion on trains and platforms to be observed

 

[Bletchleyite]

Today it looked like a half hourly loop: Piccadilly, Oxford Road, Deansgate, Piccadilly.

Plenty of confusion on trains and platforms to be observed

Could they not have done half at a time rather than closing it? It would have required special crowd control measures (i.e. physically preventing people going down until their train was next) but with reduced numbers of passengers over the "interval" period it would surely have been workable.

 

[The Planner]

Could they not have done half at a time rather than closing it? It would have required special crowd control measures (i.e. physically preventing people going down until their train was next) but with reduced numbers of passengers over the "interval" period it would surely have been workable.

Its more to do with equipment, materials and where you store it as well as the buffer zone you would need. Having the whole thing shut makes the job quicker.

 

[Llandudno]

Could they not have done half at a time rather than closing it? It would have required special crowd control measures (i.e. physically preventing people going down until their train was next) but with reduced numbers of passengers over the "interval" period it would surely have been workable.

The platform gestapo at Piccadilly would have relished the challenge….!