TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

[BHXDMT]

Is Irlam really a big enough place to justify calls from what is essentially an intercity service though? I know it used to be a terminus for local services from Oxford Road back in the 101 days, but I assumed that was driven by operational convenience rather than demand.

Well..... the latest I've heard is, it'll eventually be all stations to Lime Street from Dec 23

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Well..... the latest I've heard is, it'll eventually be all stations to Lime Street from Dec 23

That sounds utterly daft to be honest... loco-hauled intercity services calling at ghost-stations like Trafford Park and Chassen Road, while places like Batley (population 46k) get one 185 an hour along the main line, and the Northern via Brighouse- if it stays.

A classic case of the tail wagging the dog here, it seems.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

There are 0 additional training days added, and not all staff are willing to do training on RD work so you’ve still got to try and get over 100 conductors route trained from the 3 guard depots, plus any contingency depots and driver route retention.

Training days!!! And Alison Murray keeps telling me that we don't need training days in our links any more…..

 

[JonathanH]

That sounds utterly daft to be honest... loco-hauled intercity services calling at ghost-stations like Trafford Park and Chassen Road, while places like Batley (population 46k) get one 185 an hour along

It is a necessary compromise to stop at Irlam for so long as they can't fit a proper stopping service and faster services on the same line due to capacity issues.

 

[Fokx]

Sounds nothing like what I've been hearing.
Both Sheffield and Cleethorpes depots now have several weeks of both traction and route learning built into the roster from 1st August until Dec TT change.

As of yet, unless I’m completely mistaken none of the South route depots currently sign or are in the process of signing beyond Oxford Rd.

I believe Sheffield conductors will but haven’t yet. Airport and Piccadilly guards need route learning/refreshing trips which are currently not rostered. (They were originally in May but were removed shortly after due to delays in the route)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2022 ==

Training days!!! And Alison Murray keeps telling me that we don't need training days in our links any more…..

No comment

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2022 ==

Well..... the latest I've heard is, it'll eventually be all stations to Lime Street from Dec 23

I was under the impression ‘all stations from Dec 23’ meant all proposed stations in the castlefield corridor proposal.

As in: South Parkway, Warrington West (peak), Warrington Central, Birchwood, Irlam, Urmston and Flixton rather than a full stopping service

 

[BHXDMT]

As of yet, unless I’m completely mistaken none of the South route depots currently sign or are in the process of signing beyond Oxford Rd.

I believe Sheffield conductors will but haven’t yet. Airport and Piccadilly guards need route learning/refreshing trips which are currently not rostered.

Plenty of Cleethorpes Conductors have signed off Oxford Road, and several Sheffield Conductors have already signed off Cheshire Lines, with another Conductor signing it off every week because of the training blocks in the roster.

Sheffield Drivers are also continuing their Cheshire Lines route learning and that's been going on for several months.

 

[Fokx]

Sheffield Drivers are also continuing their Cheshire Lines route learning and that's been going on for several months.

That makes sense, I was only aware of the Manchester drivers on the training train that shuttles back and forth, but it makes more sense that they’ll be the Manchester DI’s

 

[CAF397]

That makes sense, I was only aware of the Manchester drivers on the training train that shuttles back and forth, but it makes more sense that they’ll be the Manchester DI’s

Sheffield DIs have signed the CLC for months.

 

[L+Y]

What's the plan, if any, for Mk5 usage on the North TPE routes from December: or will that part be no change for the time being?

 

[Watershed]

What's the plan, if any, for Mk5 usage on the North TPE routes from December: or will that part be no change for the time being?

Watch this space. The December timetable will start being published later this month.

 

[Eastwestjct]

Any idea what the diagrams are from Dec 2022

 

[gimmea50anyday]

None as yet. Still in discussion with Rail North.

The paths available on OpenTrainTimes are bid paths, they have to be put in at planning stage to develop the timetable. While indicative they are in no way definitive

 

[Peter Sarf]

Are the diagrams currently as they were in May or have I got some research to do ?.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

We simply don't know at this stage. Its down to rail north to decide but they are going to have to make a decision soon in regard to what services to operate. hopefully now the new PM is in whoever becomes the transport secretary will come up with a solution to the staffing disputes currently rocking the railway as any uplift of the timetable is going to require some rest day working agreements

 

[Peter Sarf]

Sorry I meant have the diagrams in use changed from May to this current week ?. Or is it currently as it was in May ?. I don't recall any changes being reported but want to know if my current record needs updating.

I agree though that there might be all sorts of changes once the new PM and team settle in but hopefully not by Thursday. Off topic speculation but probably they will ignore detail and eventually just cut spending.

 

[BHXDMT]

Looking at RTT, some changes to the 68 Cleethorpes diagrams in Dec.

A set comes off Longsight at 0432 as 5B64 then operates:

1B64 0543 Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes
5B73 0926 Cleethorpes to Liverpool Lime Street
5B80 1319 Liverpool Lime Street to Cleethorpes
1B89 1724 Cleethorpes to Liverpool Lime Street
1B96 2119 Liverpool Lime Street to Doncaster

Then goes onto Europort at 0006 as 5B96 for fuelling.

The set comes off Europort at 0511 as 5B60 next morning then operates:

1B60 0537 Doncaster to Cleethorpes
1B69 0727 Cleethorpes to Liverpool Lime Street
1B76 1119 Liverpool Lime Street to Cleethorpes
1B85 1524 Cleethorpes to Liverpool Lime Street

The goes back onto Longsight at 1927 as 5H85.

Still pathed as 185s currently.

5B73 and 5B80 were previously Class 1 trains, so looks like they're keeping a training run in beyond December which makes sense as plenty still need training.

 

[D6975]

Looking at RTT, some changes to the 68 Cleethorpes diagrams in Dec.

A set comes off Longsight at 0432 as 5B64 then operates:

1B64 0543 Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes
5B73 0926 Cleethorpes to Liverpool Lime Street
5B80 1319 Liverpool Lime Street to Cleethorpes
1B89 1724 Cleethorpes to Liverpool Lime Street
1B96 2119 Cleethorpes to Doncaster

This can't possibly be right!

 

[507020]

I’ve been wondering if a Lime Street - Cleethorpes service will run at all from December or if it will be postponed until May. I have been looking forward to a useable service on the CLC line.

 

[BHXDMT]

This can't possibly be right!

Correct, edited to say Liverpool to Doncaster.

 

[Mzzzs]

Hi, i am planning to go up north on 28/9/2022 are there any tpe 68 diagrams running?

 

[Freightmaster]

Hi, i am planning to go up north on 28/9/2022 are there any tpe 68 diagrams running?

That's today!


Did you mean Friday the 28th of October?



MARK

 

[Mzzzs]

That's today!


Did you mean Friday the 28th of October?



MARK

Sorry I mean the 29/9/22, tomorrow.

 

[L+Y]

Does anybody yet know firmly how the LHCS diagrams are likely to look from December, or are things still up in the air?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Does anybody yet know firmly how the LHCS diagrams are likely to look from December, or are things still up in the air?

Yes I am wondering. Furthermore a friend keeps noticing that sometimes (or perhaps more often) only two of the four daily Mk5 diagrams covering Scarborough-York (and beyond) are actually Mk5s. Sometimes a change (failure ?) during the day.

 

[D6975]

Yes I am wondering. Furthermore a friend keeps noticing that sometimes (or perhaps more often) only two of the four daily Mk5 diagrams covering Scarborough-York (and beyond) are actually Mk5s. Sometimes a change (failure ?) during the day.

Today there are no 68s out on the Diggle route at all, 185s and cancellations throughout.

 

[VauxhallNova]

Interesting that back in December 2019 there was confidence within Transpennine that these units would work, with them having better reliability than the Hitachi fleet. Seems to be that running a micro-fleet increases the average failure rate.

"Mk5a coaches are not the first new rolling stock to be introduced into the UK. Look back at almost all new trains introductions and you'll find stock that was fraught with issues and problems. This stock is generally (now) very good and as has been mentioned, the actual number of breakdowns in service has been minimal. I note your comment of the length of time these trains have been developed and tested. It may interest you to know that out of the new Nova fleets, Class 802 has so far demonstrated a higher failure rate than the Mk5a coaches. Remembering that the AT300 design is extensively tested and is currently used by three operators with over 100 units accepted, maybe you could explain your argument for why brand new stock should not encounter teething issues?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tpe-mark-5a-coaching-stock-progress.143579/page-193

 

[AC47461]

68019 Brutus and Mk5 set 13 were on this yesterday https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C38886/2022-10-20/detailed 5B78 1318 Manchester Piccadilly - Cleethorpes
Made a nice racket leaving Doncaster
It says in RTT it was empty coaching stock and the announcer at Doncaster made it quite clear that it wasn't in passenger service so I imagine this was a driver / crew training run?

 

[SteveyBee131]

68019 Brutus and Mk5 set 13 were on this yesterday https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C38886/2022-10-20/detailed 5B78 1318 Manchester Piccadilly - Cleethorpes
Made a nice racket leaving Doncaster
It says in RTT it was empty coaching stock and the announcer at Doncaster made it quite clear that it wasn't in passenger service so I imagine this was a driver / crew training run?

It is indeed, used to train Cleethorpes crews, works 5B73 out, and 5B78 back. Also occasionally does short trips to/from Doncaster afterwards. There is sometimes also a light engine 68 doing training trips, but not set in stone.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Today there are no 68s out on the Diggle route at all, 185s and cancellations throughout.

So zero out of only four !.

Interesting that back in December 2019 there was confidence within Transpennine that these units would work, with them having better reliability than the Hitachi fleet. Seems to be that running a micro-fleet increases the average failure rate.



https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tpe-mark-5a-coaching-stock-progress.143579/page-193

These Mk5s + 68s seem to be at the bottom of TPEs wanted list. Can only hope there is little holding them back once a full timetable and enough staff happen.

I am hoping there will be more than just the four diagrams later in the year (December TT change) and that they are indeed producing Mk5s.

 

[CAF397]

So zero out of only four !.

Staffing issues, not traction related.