Lost ticket becoming failed to purchase

[Littleton]

Hi all thanks a lot for having me here.

Purchased on cash 2 tickets for me and my partner, Swansea to Cardiff and lost mine, in the return. When I tried to go out, been told that had to buy a new one thing that I refused, understand their part but I really bought the ticket.
They issued me 12,70£ and asked me for name and address which I had no problems to facilitate. But still got this failed to purchase fine.
Wonder if having payed on cash is anyway to get a proof of purchase, or how could I appeal for this dont go beyond an honest mistake. My partner had her ticket but station gates kept it, so I'm not sure how I could be able to provide the proofs needed.

Thanks.

 

[AlterEgo]

Unfortunately if you’ve lost the ticket that’s that. Failing to show on demand a valid ticket is a criminal offence.

Were you penalty fared? You mention a “fine”. If you’ve been penalty fared you need to pay it as you don’t have a valid ground to appeal it. Sorry that it’s not better news.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

£12.70 is the cost of an undiscounted Anytime Day Single between the two stations (Cardiff Central / Swansea).

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum.

This is an unfortunate situation but failing to show a ticket when asked to do so is a criminal offence. I would pay what they are asking to stop the matter from escalating and chalk it up to experience.

The last thing you need is this escalating to an appearance in the magistrates court.

 

[mikeg]

We need to clarify did the OP actually purchase a new ticket? If so do they have it?
Might it be argued if so, as a ticket was sold the OP has discharged their liability, as usually passengers are zero fared in such circumstances?
Or did the OP as they say refuse to pay and this was issued later? If so, is it a letter asking for £12.70 PLUS a failure to purchase fee? If so I'd pay it promptly.
What is this failure to purchase fine the OP speaks of? We really need clarification on this to provide advice.

To the OP, please write a step by step account of what happened so we can better advise.

 

[Littleton]

Good Morning, thanks all for the short responses.

Ill try explain better what happened. And please allow me use my own words since I'm not really familiar with the work terminologies.

I used the ticket to access to the platform to Cardiff and jumped on the train, nobody asked me for the ticket while I was travelling either till the very way out on the gates, the worker had a blue high vest, and was opening em for people with luggage. Had to pass by him since I was pushing my 8 months kid stroller, He suggested me to go back and search for the ticket on the train, but was impossible with my kid on stroller. Tried to talk with the cleaners workers but had no luck finding the ticket.

Next thing a young man with Orange high vest came to see me, and after ask me for my name and address printed for me a "failed to purchase notice". Valued on 12'70£.

Guess the bad luck from my part is having payed in cash, because I could prove the purchase on my bank app if I'd done it so, but is not the case.
As many of your responses saying I'd pay the ticket twice, since was my own mistake, but never had a letter yet, so I wonder..

Should I wait for a letter?

Thanks a lot for a the advices and congratulations for a great and informative forum.

Have a good day

 

[Haywain]

When did this happen? It could take several weeks for a letter to arrive.

 

[Littleton]

When did this happen? It could take several weeks for a letter to arrive.

Last night it was.

 

[Haywain]

Last night it was.

So what, exactly, is the document you have been given? Perhaps you could post a copy with your details redacted.

And, to be clear, if you have lost a ticket you have to buy a replacement no matter how it was originally paid for.

 

[Littleton]

So what, exactly, is the document you have been given? Perhaps you could post a copy with your details redacted.

And, to be clear, if you have lost a ticket you have to buy a replacement no matter how it was originally paid for.

I'll pay if I have to, dont want any troubles, I only was wondering what kind of options I had, since was an honest mistake. Here goes the the document hope it helps,

Many thanks

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I think that in theory you could argue with this - but if you lost the argument you might end up in court, risking a fine and costs. In practice, you can make the whole problem go away by paying £12.70 and be certain that nothing more will come of it.

Personally, I would pay the £12.70 and put the whole thing behind me.

 

[Littleton]

I think that in theory you could argue with this - but if you lost the argument you might end up in court, risking a fine and costs. In practice, you can make the whole problem go away by paying £12.70 and be certain that nothing more will come of it.

Personally, I would pay the £12.70 and put the whole thing

Certainly. Was trying figure it out what as customer can I do, in this particular case than a matter of money itself.
I understand was my own fault have lost the ticket.

Thanks a lot for all kind responses, and again congratulations for such a polite and informative forum.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Was trying figure it out what as customer can I do, in this particular case than a matter of money itself.
I understand was my own fault have lost the ticket.

One of those things. Bit like losing a £20 banknote in the street. You wouldn't expect to be provided with any free replacement.

So, pay what's now due, chalk it up to experience and move on.

And next time, look after your rail ticket(s) more carefully!

 

[class68fan]

In many respects you are lucky that common sense has been used and you were believed that you had both purchased tickets, it is actually refreshing to hear rather than some of the horror stories.

Luckily it was not a ticket costing far more, though losing £12.70 is not great.

It would be best to pay for the ticket and put it down to experience. As an anolgy if you left your bag of shopping on the train you would not expect the supermarket to replace it for free.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is the first time I’ve come across one of these Failure to Purchase notices. When are they usually issued, and in what circumstances?

 

[mikeg]

They seem to be being very reasonable compared to certain companies, you lose your ticket you have to pay for a new one.
With many companies you'd have been charged a penalty fare under such circumstances at least.

 

[Hadders]

I'll pay if I have to, dont want any troubles, I only was wondering what kind of options I had, since was an honest mistake. Here goes the the document hope it helps,

Many thanks

You really don't have any option other than to pay up or end up in court. If it ends up in court you would lose.

Unfortunate as the situation is you were unable to present a ticket when asked to do so. That is a crtiminal offence. If you don't pay the notice you've been given you'll end up getting a letter from TfW's Prosecutions Department saying that they are considering prosecuting you. The option to pay £12.70 to make the matter go away will no longer exist and it will end up costing you far more to resolve it.

Unfair as it may sound, I'd pay the £12.70 and chalk it up to experience.

 

[skyhigh]

This is the first time I’ve come across one of these Failure to Purchase notices. When are they usually issued, and in what circumstances?

I'm guessing it's just a different name for an Unpaid Fares Notice.

 

[spag23]

One of those things. Bit like losing a £20 banknote in the street. You wouldn't expect to be provided with any free replacement.

MCR Warrior took the words out of my mouth (keyboard!). This episode highlights the benefits of using a card to pay for a paper ticket, rather than cash. A receipt (as long as he hadn't lost that too!) might just have swayed the discretion of the rail staff in the OP's favour. Or even the credit statement, if the incident rolled on.

 

[XAM2175]

Guess the bad luck from my part is having payed in cash, because I could prove the purchase on my bank app if I'd done it so, but is not the case.

This episode highlights the benefits of using a card to pay for a paper ticket, rather than cash. A receipt (as long as he hadn't lost that too!) might just have swayed the discretion of the rail staff in the OP's favour.

For the avoidance of doubt - even if you had paid by card (or got a receipt with your cash purchase) it wouldn't be sufficient proof that you were entitled to travel, because you might have subsequently obtained a refund for the ticket, or sold or given it to another person. It works in much the same way as losing a banknote you got from a cashpoint; you can show evidence that you made a withdrawal at a certain place and time, but while you claim to have lost the note you might actually have spent it at a shop, or used it to pay off a debt to a friend, etc etc.

Further, I would argue that the fact that the OP was simply issued an Unpaid Fare Notice and allowed to to travel suggests that discretion was exercised by the staff in this case regardless of the absence of proof of purchase!

 

[spag23]

I had been assuming the inspector might have given the OP the complete benefit of the doubt if presented with (albeit not cast iron) evidence of a purchase. And perhaps even let him off completely. That's what happened to me in 1959 when I lost my Red Rover, a one day bus pass; even without proof of purchase. A small act of kindness still remembered sixty years on; sadly not a memory that today's losers of tickets will ever cherish, with modern RPIs apparently defaulting to thoughts of the ticket having been sold on or refunded.

 

[Falcon1200]

with modern RPIs apparently defaulting to thoughts of the ticket having been sold on or refunded.

What else can they do? In today's world of instant mass communication, as soon as it becomes known that the railway will 'let you off' if you say you have lost your ticket, it's open season! (Not that I am suggesting that is what happened here of course).

 

[skyhigh]

A small act of kindness still remembered sixty years on; sadly not a memory that today's losers of tickets will ever cherish, with modern RPIs apparently defaulting to thoughts of the ticket having been sold on or refunded.

In this case the solution is effectively to charge for a new ticket with no additional fee. That seems reasonable to me, given the passenger apparently had no evidence to show they'd actually ever held a ticket. I've seen and given discretion loads of times - it is very much not extinct on the modern railway.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In this case the solution is effectively to charge for a new ticket with no additional fee.

Isn't this effectively what's happened here? The OP reports having been asked to pay an additional £12.70 which is the price of an Anytime Day Single between Cardiff and Swansea.

 

[skyhigh]

Isn't this effectively what's happened here? The OP reports having been asked to pay an additional £12.70 which is the price of an Anytime Day Single between Cardiff and Swansea.

Yes that's what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear. Just the fare asked for, no admin fees or punitive element- that seems pretty fair to me.

 

[30907]

And perhaps even let him off completely. That's what happened to me in 1959 when I lost my Red Rover, a one day bus pass.

No help tobthe OP, but how old were you in 1959, may I ask (I was 12 when I had my first!)? And how many buses did you use without the ticket?

 

[spag23]

No help tobthe OP, but how old were you in 1959, may I ask (I was 12 when I had my first!)? And how many buses did you use without the ticket?

PM'd to avoid going OT.

 

[island]

This is the first time I’ve come across one of these Failure to Purchase notices. When are they usually issued, and in what circumstances?

It just looks like a different name for a UPFN.