Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.

[DarloRich]

Some advice: if you are unhappy about this mini fiscal event ( and you should be) try this:

STOP VOTING TORY.

 

[yorksrob]

I think many will end up wishing we hadn’t got rid of Gordon Brown. The benefit of hindsight!

"Always keep a-hold of Nurse, for fear of finding something worse"?

Indeed, on both points.

 

[dosxuk]

The pound is tanking v the dollar. If this economic situation occured under a labour government the tory media and the tory talking heads would be up in arms and demanding the army take charge! Not a word today. Funny that...........

Although the Chief Secretary to the Treasury was bigging up the gain in the pound earlier - https://twitter.com/CPhilpOfficial/status/1573240072060682240

Great to see sterling strengthening on the back of the new UK Growth Plan

 

[Bald Rick]

That has aged very, very quickly.

 

[DarloRich]

Although the Chief Secretary to the Treasury was bigging up the gain in the pound earlier - https://twitter.com/CPhilpOfficial/status/1573240072060682240

That has aged very, very quickly.

The titanic was more buoyant!

 

[Lost property]

No! no ! no ! you are all just being very, very, churlish ! The UK is famed for it's philanthropy and altruism, hence the tax savings by the select few will indeed trickle down when they rush to send their Harrods and Selfridges hampers to the ever growing number of food banks....actually, many of them, and this Gov't probably think a food bank is a new branded outlet for Coutt's ....they will also be opening their various 96 rooms and counting country homes to ensure all those who are well into what is termed the poverty demographic will not starve or freeze this winter....

Disclaimer. My blood stream has not been diluted by substances or alcohol and I am not sectioned under the Mental Health Act. ..neithe do I work for the Mail or Express, albeit the question is who actually does.

 

[nlogax]

I haven't quite worked out the logic there ('We demand you accept our plan because we have no-one else to turn to') but I'm sure there must be something in it or it wouldn't appear in the Express.

There's something in it alright. It's brown and smells. Just the sort of stuff the Express leaks from its pages on a daily basis.

 

[WatcherZero]

Although the Chief Secretary to the Treasury was bigging up the gain in the pound earlier - https://twitter.com/CPhilpOfficial/status/1573240072060682240

That was at 10am
This is 5 hours later!

 

[GusB]

I'm probably opening myself up for accusations of tin-foil-hattery, but with the pound so low against the dollar and with a desperate for need to raise revenue, there's a plump, juicy NHS that's ripe for the picking.

They'd probably need to get rid of workers' rights and restrict the right to strike and/or protest first, though.

Oh, wait...

It would not surprise me if the minimum wage was next in the firing line. Who cares if small businesses go down the drain in the meantime? It'll mean more competition for those unfilled vacancies and bingo - no more wage inflation! Job done.

 

[brad465]

Has there been a UK budget/fiscal event/statement that when made has seen our currency crash like this before as a direct consequence of the contents of said budget? The cynic in me wonders if there are folk close to Kwarteng who knew the contents of the budget in advance enough to bet on shorting the pound and are raking it in as a result?

 

[jon0844]

Of course they'll have made a packet on the exchange rate today. Didn't Farage and others boast of doing the same after the referendum result?

 

[brad465]

Although the Chief Secretary to the Treasury was bigging up the gain in the pound earlier - https://twitter.com/CPhilpOfficial/status/1573240072060682240

That has aged very, very quickly.

The titanic was more buoyant!

The graph in question now looks like the below graph, which shows the value has now fallen to 1.09 and I've circled in red the point that Chris Philp made that tweet, around 10am:

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1573323911319650305

Pound now down to $1.092 vs US$. That’s a more than 3% fall today. And still dropping. This is… unnerving.

 

[yorksrob]

Is this a dash for a low-tax, small state, USA style economy, the sort we've (the majority of the population) always dreaded.

 

[najaB]

I did say we'd probably end up wishing we hadn't got rid of Boris.

The problem isn't that we got rid of Boris, but that we didn't/couldn't get rid of the rest of the Tories at the same time.

 

[yorksrob]

The problem isn't that we got rid of Boris, but that we didn't/couldn't get rid of the rest of the Tories at the same time.

True - a general election does seem a long way away.

 

[nw1]

I think many will end up wishing we hadn’t got rid of Gordon Brown. The benefit of hindsight!

I'm probably in an extreme minority, but I've always rated Gordon Brown the least-worst Prime Minister of the ones that I remember (i.e. those from Thatcher onwards). He was probably the only one who didn't do anything to directly p*** me off!

It's been a consistent downhill trajectory since then, with each one worse than the previous.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Sep 2022 ==

The problem isn't that we got rid of Boris, but that we didn't/couldn't get rid of the rest of the Tories at the same time.

Indeed, the policies of this government prove that the problem was not Boris after all, but the party as a whole.

 

[bleeder4]

It occurred to me recently that the last PM who served a full term as leader of a majority government was Tony Blair. His second term of 2001-2005 was, I think, the last full-term majority.

 

[Gloster]

I'm probably in an extreme minority, but I've always rated Gordon Brown the least-worst Prime Minister of the ones that I remember (i.e. those from Thatcher onwards). He was probably the only one who didn't do anything to directly p*** me off!

I agree. Brown was by far the best PM of my recollection, which just goes back to Wilson (I). (I will add the qualification that best is only relative to other PMs.) He did at least seem to have some compassion and wish to spread the advantages round on the basis of humanity, rather than popularity. Which is probably what did for him.

 

[DelayRepay]

Some advice: if you are unhappy about this mini fiscal event ( and you should be) try this:

STOP VOTING TORY.

Your advice does not help. I have never voted Tory and I never intend to. They keep winning though.

I agree. Brown was by far the best PM of my recollection, which just goes back to Wilson (I). (I will add the qualification that best is only relative to other PMs.) He did at least seem to have some compassion and wish to spread the advantages round on the basis of humanity, rather than popularity. Which is probably what did for him.

I think he was dealt a difficult hand, becoming Prime Minister at the time of the financial crisis. In a sense Truss has been dealt a similar hand (although that is where the similarities end!).

I wonder what would have happened if Blair and Brown had made a different deal in that restaurant in Islington in 1994. Or what would have happened if, in 2010 Labour had chosen the other Miliband brother.

 

[Typhoon]

I wonder what would have happened if Blair and Brown had made a different deal in that restaurant in Islington in 1994. Or what would have happened if, in 2010 Labour had chosen the other Miliband brother.

Or if John Smith hadn't passed away in 1994? (I'm not certain we'd have participated in Iraq in the same way. Smith was, above all, cautious.)

 

[yorksrob]

Your advice does not help. I have never voted Tory and I never intend to. They keep winning though.


I think he was dealt a difficult hand, becoming Prime Minister at the time of the financial crisis. In a sense Truss has been dealt a similar hand (although that is where the similarities end!).

I wonder what would have happened if Blair and Brown had made a different deal in that restaurant in Islington in 1994. Or what would have happened if, in 2010 Labour had chosen the other Miliband brother.

I'm not convinced that David would have been a massive success over Ed. The country was still a bit labour fatigued and the Tories were held in check at that point by the Lib Dems.

It's a bit like the economy is taking "uppers" and "downers" at the same time.

We're supposedly all spending like we're characters in Dallas, therefore creating inflation and have to be curbed by high interest rates.

Meanwhile, the people who actually have the ability to spend like characters from Dallas are "held back" from investing in the economy, so have to be given a massive tax cut to trickle down to those of us naughty households who are squandering so much more money on frivolities such as food and fuel.

You couldn't make it up !

 

[DarloRich]

Your advice does not help. I have never voted Tory and I never intend to. They keep winning though.

Neither have i nor will i. It helps to have good advice reinforced from time to time

 

[Bald Rick]

Given that Ms Truss is, by all accounts*, a politician who seeks to be popular by doing things that are popular with her electorate, has she completely misjudged this, or is there a whole part of the population that thinks this ‘budget’ is a great thing but are keeping mysteriously silent that about it?

I’ve spoken to lots of people today, across the political spectrum and social spectrum, and not one of them thinks this ‘budget’ is a good one.

*including my account, from when I’ve met her.

 

[najaB]

Given that Ms Truss is, by all accounts*, a politician who seeks to be popular by doing things that are popular with her electorate, has she completely misjudged this, or is there a whole part of the population that thinks this ‘budget’ is a great thing but are keeping mysteriously silent that about it?

I think she is still seeing her electorate as the conservative party members only.

 

[yorksrob]

Who was she listening to ? She could have been told this was a bad idea at any time over the last few weeks.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think she is still seeing her electorate as the conservative party members only.

I’ve spoken to a few conservatives today. None of them think this was sensible! (They are all economists though).

 

[Domh245]

Kwarteng is a very, very clever man; I’ve met him. I really don’t understand how removing the 45% top rate, can be seen as anything but rewarding the rich. He must know that.

He may have come up with it whilst still coked off his face following The funeral...

It does pain me to say, but at least I won't be paying HMRC as much whilst the country is getting absolutely shafted left, right, and centre. I'd have much rather been paying more and getting higher quality public services but the country has unfortunately got what it kept voting for. Hopefully we'll be smarter next time around and can still recover things a bit

I'll have to try and force myself to stop following politics too closely for the next few years, I fear it's just going to make me very angry

 

[duncanp]

Given that Ms Truss is, by all accounts*, a politician who seeks to be popular by doing things that are popular with her electorate, has she completely misjudged this, or is there a whole part of the population that thinks this ‘budget’ is a great thing but are keeping mysteriously silent that about it?

I’ve spoken to lots of people today, across the political spectrum and social spectrum, and not one of them thinks this ‘budget’ is a good one.

*including my account, from when I’ve met her.

As a Conservative voter, I feel a little bit uneasy about this budget.

The Prime Minister is taking a gamble that the tax cuts will stimulate growth, which will lead to a rise in tax revenues despite the headline rates being cut.

If it works, all well and good, but if it doesn't the country will be in a worse position than it otherwise would have been.

A lot depends on the progress of the war in Ukraine. If the war were to end this year, or Putin were to be overthrown and replaced by someone more moderate who is willing to negotiate, then the economic outlook for Western Europe would improve considerably, and there would be more chance of the government's plan working.

 

[DC1989]

But if economic growth is dependent on the war ending, why do the tax cuts etc matter?

 

[takno]

As a Conservative voter, I feel a little bit uneasy about this budget.

The Prime Minister is taking a gamble that the tax cuts will stimulate growth, which will lead to a rise in tax revenues despite the headline rates being cut.

If it works, all well and good, but if it doesn't the country will be in a worse position than it otherwise would have been.

A lot depends on the progress of the war in Ukraine. If the war were to end this year, or Putin were to be overthrown and replaced by someone more moderate who is willing to negotiate, then the economic outlook for Western Europe would improve considerably, and there would be more chance of the government's plan working.

If you feel a little uneasy about this budget, you may be entirely missing the truly epic scale of how wrong it is