Belgian EMUs

[Bikeman78]

You might add that :
- They were all compatible together, any of them could be MUed with any other;
- Braking systems varied a lot, so there were sometimes strong reactions between units in a varied consist;
- Up to 660, they were equipped with classical rheostat system for starting, as of 660 they switched to thyristors;
- Motor couplings were serial and serial/parallel on the rheostat ones, and serial/parallel only for the thyristor ones; the controller only had those two stable positions - on the thyristor ones, to maintain compatibility, the serial position was simulated;
- Max speed was 130 km/h for units below 600 and 140 km/h for 601 and above
- Maximum consist was 6 units, but this draws too much current so one of the six had to have its traction switched off, unless they were all thyristor units, because they draw less current;
- Only those which are not thyristor-equipped are cleared to run into Aachen;
- the current cab design started with unit 010 (AM50, built 1950).

Yes I remember random combinations of all ages in mixed steel/green/red liveries. Also ran with AM75, which they still do of course.

Combinations of thyristor and non thyristor units are brutal. The older units take off more quickly so there is a big bang from the couplings. On the older units you can hear the camshaft control knocking out the resistors one by one. I think there are about 20 stages. If power is reapplied when the train is moving it's quite fun listening to the system working out which point to start from.

Why did 151 to 270 have a lower max speed? They had the same motors and disc brakes as 601 to 782, unlike units up to 150 which had tread brakes. I did once have a run on an AM62 coupled to the back of a newer unit. It ran quite happily at 140 km/h. If the AM62 is leading then a red light comes on in the cab at 130 km/h.

12 cars sets sometimes used to run on peak trains on line 50, Aalst-Jette-Brussel-Denderleeuw-Zottegem. One summer about 20 years ago they ran a summer relief train from Knokke and Blankenberge to Brussel. Six cars from each joining at Brugge. I travelled from Gent Sint Pieters for the high speed run along line 50A to Brussel Zuid.

I wonder why thyristor units cannot run to Aachen? Why are they planning to replace the old units with on that service?

 

[AdamWW]

Yes I remember random combinations of all ages in mixed steel/green/red liveries. Also ran with AM75, which they still do of course.

Combinations of thyristor and non thyristor units are brutal. The older units take off more quickly so there is a big bang from the couplings. On the older units you can hear the camshaft control knocking out the resistors one by one. I think there are about 20 stages. If power is reapplied when the train is moving it's quite fun listening to the system working out which point to start from.

Why did 151 to 270 have a lower max speed? They had the same motors and disc brakes as 601 to 782, unlike units up to 150 which had tread brakes. I did once have a run on an AM62 coupled to the back of a newer unit. It ran quite happily at 140 km/h. If the AM62 is leading then a red light comes on in the cab at 130 km/h.

12 cars sets sometimes used to run on peak trains on line 50, Aalst-Jette-Brussel-Denderleeuw-Zottegem. One summer about 20 years ago they ran a summer relief train from Knokke and Blankenberge to Brussel. Six cars from each joining at Brugge. I travelled from Gent Sint Pieters for the high speed run along line 50A to Brussel Zuid.

I wonder why thyristor units cannot run to Aachen? Why are they planning to replace the old units with on that service?

This might be an appropriate place for me to ask...

I believe that Aachen has voltage switched catenary and the SNCB trains run all the way on 3 kV.

But is it true that into Roosendaal they just run on 1.5 kV but at reduced power?

 

[biko]

But is it true that into Roosendaal they just run on 1.5 kV but at reduced power?

Yes, at both borders between the Netherlands and Belgium, Belgian trains run at reduced power at the Dutch side of the switchover points.

 

[MarcVD]

I believe that Aachen has voltage switched catenary and the SNCB trains run all the way on 3 kV.

Exact, there are currently 4 tracks in Aachen with switchable catenary.
DB however has plans to change that, it will be replaced, in a few years, by a simple junction more or less where the border is located. So in the future all cross border trains will have to be 3kV and 15kV capable.This one of the reasons for SNCB ordering HLE17.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Sep 2022 ==

Why did 151 to 270 have a lower max speed? They had the same motors and disc brakes as 601 to 782, unlike units up to 150 which had tread brakes. I did once have a run on an AM62 coupled to the back of a newer unit. It ran quite happily at 140 km/h. If the AM62 is leading then a red light comes on in the cab at 130 km/h.

At the time AM62 were built, all SNCB rolling stock was limited to 130 km/h, except HLE15 and HLE16 which were used to haul international trains. 140 km/h with an AM62 in the consist was clearly a rules violation, it was not allowed. Not an easily trackable one, though. There were spot checks on the speed recordings, but probably with the number of the first AM in the consist only, not the other ones. But would an accident have happened, this driver would have been in big trouble.

 

[Ken H]

This might be an appropriate place for me to ask...

I believe that Aachen has voltage switched catenary and the SNCB trains run all the way on 3 kV.

But is it true that into Roosendaal they just run on 1.5 kV but at reduced power?

I caught a belgian rail emu from Roos to Antwerp in the evening once. Definitely a lot of banging of circuit breakes as we went over the border. It looked like a standard belgian EMU. Dont know if it had been converted in any way. 2001

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Sep 2022 ==

I caught a belgian rail emu from Roos to Antwerp in the evening once. Definitely a lot of banging of circuit breakes as we went over the border. It looked like a standard belgian EMU. Dont know if it had been converted in any way. 2001

It was one of these but painted blue. https://css.trainspo.com/uploads/photos/1022-79556v1_20170124.jpg

 

[MarcVD]

wonder why thyristor units cannot run to Aachen? Why are they planning to replace the old units with on that service?

Thyristor-based controllers are well known for injecting way more parasite currents (so called harmonics) in the track and catenary, possibly disturbing train detection equipment. So tests are needed before such units can be allowed. Those tests were never done because at the time those units were built, they never went there : all Aachen traffic was done with the two-hourly international trains to/from Koln.

There are rumors that some AM80 units, recently replaced by new M7 stock, have been allocated to Welkenraedt for driver training and certification to Aachen. Rumors only, no guarantees.

 

[AdamWW]

I caught a belgian rail emu from Roos to Antwerp in the evening once. Definitely a lot of banging of circuit breakes as we went over the border. It looked like a standard belgian EMU. Dont know if it had been converted in any way. 2001

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Sep 2022 ==


It was one of these but painted blue. https://css.trainspo.com/uploads/photos/1022-79556v1_20170124.jpg

Looks very much like the train I got from Roosendaal to Antwerp not that long ago. Quite distinctive - not just the ends but also the different external doors for 1st and 2nd class carrages.

 

[MarcVD]

I caught a belgian rail emu from Roos to Antwerp in the evening once. Definitely a lot of banging of circuit breakes as we went over the border. It looked like a standard belgian EMU. Dont know if it had been converted in any way. 2001

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Sep 2022 ==


It was one of these but painted blue. https://css.trainspo.com/uploads/photos/1022-79556v1_20170124.jpg

At the border the catenary is interrupted : traction must be cut off and pantographs lowered.



One of its kind. Advertising livery.

 

[Ken H]

At the border the catenary is interrupted : traction must be cut off and pantographs lowered.

View attachment 121154

One of its kind. Advertising livery.

View attachment 121155

Thanks for the pic of the border.

 

[Bikeman78]

Looks very much like the train I got from Roosendaal to Antwerp not that long ago. Quite distinctive - not just the ends but also the different external doors for 1st and 2nd class carrages.

That would be an AM75. I remember them when they were fairly new in the original orange and grey livery, running the hourly Intercity from Oostende to Roosendaal via Gent, Lokeren and reversing at Antwerpen Centraal. The doors used to have pull handles on them and the air system that powered them made some very strange noises. All these quirks have been removed during the recent refurb.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Sep 2022 ==

At the time AM62 were built, all SNCB rolling stock was limited to 130 km/h, except HLE15 and HLE16 which were used to haul international trains. 140 km/h with an AM62 in the consist was clearly a rules violation, it was not allowed. Not an easily trackable one, though. There were spot checks on the speed recordings, but probably with the number of the first AM in the consist only, not the other ones. But would an accident have happened, this driver would have been in big trouble.

I'm guessing that they don't have data recorders so it would be hard to prove. I am surprised that the AM62 were not uprated in later years when most other trains were faster. As discussed, sometimes there were five or six units in the formation. Presumably the first driver is meant to check all the units and then pass on the max permitted speed to the next driver that takes over?

 

[MarcVD]

I'm guessing that they don't have data recorders so it would be hard to prove. I am surprised that the AM62 were not uprated in later years when most other trains were faster. As discussed, sometimes there were five or six units in the formation. Presumably the first driver is meant to check all the units and then pass on the max permitted speed to the next driver that takes over?

Speed is recorder. By a device like that:


The recording is done on paper. As far as I remember, only the recorder of the first unit is active.

There is a paper document that contains the number of all units in the consist. Also, the speed check is very simple to do : if there is at least one diamond pantograph in the consist, then the speed limit is 130 km/h. All 140 km/h units, and only them, have single arm ones.

 

[Bikeman78]

Speed is recorder. By a device like that:
View attachment 121213

The recording is done on paper. As far as I remember, only the recorder of the first unit is active.

There is a paper document that contains the number of all units in the consist. Also, the speed check is very simple to do : if there is at least one diamond pantograph in the consist, then the speed limit is 130 km/h. All 140 km/h units, and only them, have single arm ones.

Thanks. I wondered what caused the ticking noise from the speedometer. That explains it. Only seems to work in the leading cab. I'd completely forgotten about the different pantographs. I used to watch out for the diamond pantographs to track down the older units.

 

[Bikeman78]

Plenty of history on this video. AM75 is original orange and grey livery. A 10 car formation of two car Breaks (AM80) in red livery shortly before they were lengthened to three cars. Did two cars and three cars ever run together? Note the lack of graffiti. When did that become a problem in Belgium?