Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Goldfish62]

In fairness the build quality on Bluebirds batch of Enviro400EVs is okay and they have proven reliable albeit limited in terms of range, they don't rattle too much either but do feel and look on the cheap side.

However the lower deck interior layout is laughable, the seats towards the rear and crammed in with no knee or head room while the backs of the seats on either side over the front wheels are far too upright making them impossible to sit in. Additionally because the cab is lower down on the BYD chassis there are quite a few blind spots that wouldn't exist on a standard integral example. The two most notable being on the offside front corner where the windscreen raises up, and the frame for the opening section of the drivers window which for many shorter drivers is at eye level.

Yes, the lower interior isn't ideal, but from what I've seen of the Volvo BZL from photos it seems better than that. On London spec BYDs the nearside front seat over the wheelarch is fine, being at a normal rake, but I know what you mean about the one behind the driver. They're certainly cramped at the rear, but one thing I like is that all seats face forwards. Rearward facing seats are unpopular and are often left unoccupied with passengers preferring to stand.

Interesting re the blind spots given that no changes were made to the body design in the cab area to account for the lower driving position. Certainly the opening section of the window looks far too high up for some drivers as you say.

 

[LOL The Irony]

A bit late to report this, but MTR have ordered Enviro 500s on the new in house EV platform for Hong Kong.

Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) is Britain’s biggest bus builder and the world’s largest manufacturer of double deck buses with a strong presence in the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore and New Zealand. Alexander Dennis offers a full range of coaches under the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

Alexander Dennis (Alexander Dennis Limited, “ADL”), a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc. (“NFI”), one of the world’s leading independent global bus manufacturers, today announced that it has taken a second order for its new Enviro500EV electric double deck bus, this time from Hong Kong’s MTR Corporation. Delivery will be in 2023.

Government-owned MTR Corporation provides Hong Kong’s Mass Transit Railway urban rail system including a network of feeder bus services, for which it operates a fleet of 169 buses, most of them supplied by Alexander Dennis from its Enviro200, Enviro400 and Enviro500 vehicle ranges.

As Hong Kong begins the transition to zero-emission bus services, MTR Corporation’s first electric bus order is for Alexander Dennis’s new Enviro500EV three-axle zero-emission double decker, which the manufacturer is developing in-house using its own chassis with components from leading industry suppliers, and which can carry up to 130 passengers in high-capacity configuration for Hong Kong’s busy services.

I wonder if they'll use this as an opportunity to bring the 500 and 400 bodies closer together again?

 

[GusB]

A bit late to report this, but MTR have ordered Enviro 500s on the new in house EV platform for Hong Kong.

Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) is Britain’s biggest bus builder and the world’s largest manufacturer of double deck buses with a strong presence in the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore and New Zealand. Alexander Dennis offers a full range of coaches under the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

I wonder if they'll use this as an opportunity to bring the 500 and 400 bodies closer together again?

Were the 400 and 500 bodies really that far apart? Looking at the ADL website, the differences (cosmetically at least) don't seem to be that great.

 

[37114]

Were the 400 and 500 bodies really that far apart? Looking at the ADL website, the differences (cosmetically at least) don't seem to be that great.

ADL made out that the framing was very different hence why the Volvo's ordered by Lothian were badged E400XLB rather than Enviro 500 as they were effectively extended Enviro 400 bodywork. Conjecture but it could be the E400MMC was completely new and hence different frame to the E400 whereas the E500MMC is just cosmetic upgrade of the old E500.

 

[busesrusuk]

ADL made out that the framing was very different hence why the Volvo's ordered by Lothian were badged E400XLB rather than Enviro 500 as they were effectively extended Enviro 400 bodywork. Conjecture but it could be the E400MMC was completely new and hence different frame to the E400 whereas the E500MMC is just cosmetic upgrade of the old E500.

I stand to be corrected but I don't think that ADL has put an E500NMC body onto a Volvo B8 chassis. All of the Hong Kong E500NMC's are on ADL chassis. Volvo B8's in HK have either Wrights or MCV bodywork (and possibly Gemilang). Superficially the Lothian E500NMC's on the B8 look very similar to the large numbers of NMC's in service in HK.

I wonder if that maybe the reason why they opted to extend the E400 body was because there is/was no comparable E500. It could be that there are some differences in wheelbase/overhangs etc between the ADL and Volvo chassis that meant that it wasn't as straightforward as we may think notwithstanding the fact that the Lothian buses are 13.4m in length whereas the longest ones in Hong Kong are 12.8m.

Here are some comparison shots of a Lothian B8 and a Citybus ADL:

Citybus 6815 HK17

HKIA, HK 2017

www.flickr.com

Lothian 1134 Sep19

Haymarket, Edinburgh. Sep 2019

www.flickr.com

 

[37114]

Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) is Britain’s biggest bus builder and the world’s largest manufacturer of double deck buses with a strong presence in the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore and New Zealand. Alexander Dennis offers a full range of coaches under the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

Alexander Dennis (Alexander Dennis Limited, “ADL”), a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc. (“NFI”), one of the world’s leading independent global bus manufacturers, today announced that Transport for Greater Manchester has ordered 50 zero-emission double deck buses from Alexander Dennis for the first phase of the franchised Bee Network bus system which will launch in September 2023.

The electric buses will be built in Britain at Alexander Dennis’s factory in Scarborough, North Yorkshire and are due to operate in Wigan and Bolton, where bus franchising will be rolled out on 17 September 2023, ahead of other parts of Greater Manchester following in 2024 and 2025.

The Alexander Dennis zero-emission buses will be the first to bear the branding of the new Bee Network – Greater Manchester’s bold ambition for a fully integrated, London-style integrated transport system comprising buses, trams, walking and cycling, and eventually trains. The distinctive black and yellow design was unveiled by Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham.

The 50 new buses will be funded from the government’s City Region Sustainable Transport Settlement, with around 300 more electric buses to be delivered from 2024 through to 2027.

50 ADL electrics for Manchester but intriguingly no mention of BYD despite the render looking very much like the current E400EV rather than the new all ADL product.

 

[Goldfish62]

Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) is Britain’s biggest bus builder and the world’s largest manufacturer of double deck buses with a strong presence in the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore and New Zealand. Alexander Dennis offers a full range of coaches under the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

50 ADL electrics for Manchester but intriguingly no mention of BYD despite the render looking very much like the current E400EV rather than the new all ADL product.

They'll be BYD. The all-ADL product is way off yet.

 

[37114]

They'll be BYD. The all-ADL product is way off yet.

Good point, although the all ADL product is back end of 2023 and these are due September 2023.

 

[Goldfish62]

Good point, although the all ADL product is back end of 2023 and these are due September 2023.

And of course ADL have stated that their new in-house will have a new look. The renders are of a standard BYD E400EV.

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

Anyone know whats happening with Equipmake https://equipmake.co.uk/equipmake-and-beulas-electric-bus-trialed-by-go-ahead-london/

 

[Snow1964]

Anyone know whats happening with Equipmake https://equipmake.co.uk/equipmake-and-beulas-electric-bus-trialed-by-go-ahead-london/

Has been very quiet, not even aware of it running in a service trial (same applies to the Volvo BZL prototype/demonstrator with Metroline)

However after months of no London tender awards, a number of Operators including Go Ahead and Metroline were awarded 7 year contracts with new electric buses (contracts starting mid 2023) so maybe some orders will materialise.

 

[Goldfish62]

Has been very quiet, not even aware of it running in a service trial (same applies to the Volvo BZL prototype/demonstrator with Metroline)

However after months of no London tender awards, a number of Operators including Go Ahead and Metroline were awarded 7 year contracts with new electric buses (contracts starting mid 2023) so maybe some orders will materialise.

I find it very odd re the Volvo BZL.

 

[MotCO]

Has been very quiet, not even aware of it running in a service trial (same applies to the Volvo BZL prototype/demonstrator with Metroline)

However after months of no London tender awards, a number of Operators including Go Ahead and Metroline were awarded 7 year contracts with new electric buses (contracts starting mid 2023) so maybe some orders will materialise.

I think that there are something like 68 electric double deckers and 68 electric single deckers required for next summer. I predict zero Switch Metrodeckers will be ordered, although some smaller single deck buses may be Switch Metrocities. I predict the rest will be E400s, with maybe some Electroliners thrown into the mix.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think that there are something like 68 electric double deckers and 68 electric single deckers required for next summer. I predict zero Switch Metrodeckers will be ordered, although some smaller single deck buses may be Switch Metrocities. I predict the rest will be E400s, with maybe some Electroliners thrown into the mix.

I expect more than a few Electroliners. From what I'm hearing there's some discontent about the BYD/ADL products.

 

[busesrusuk]

Of the tenders recently announced, Go Ahead have bought BYD's for the Sutton routes (awaiting an order for the 213) whilst Arriva have ordered Electroliners for the 307. It is also rumoured that Metroline have ordered Electroliners for the 297 but that doesn't appear to have been confirmed although a demonstrator is expected. Although there are still quite a few orders still to be announced.

I suspect that both the Beulas thing and the BZL aren't quite ready for the "real world" yet and more development work is required.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I expect more than a few Electroliners. From what I'm hearing there's some discontent about the BYD/ADL products.

Unrelated to London but there's mumblings up here that Stagecoach Bluebirds 13 new double deckers are going to be Electroliners rather than more Enviro400EVs for much of the same reasons. This is further backed up by the fact the Electroliner demonstrator is currently here on a 4 week trial.

Stagecoach Bluebird LY71GJE (22nd September 2022)

Seen here traveling along Old Lang Stracht currently on demonstration with Stagecoach Bluebird is Wright Streetdeck Electroliner LY71GJE while operating a Service 14 from Kingswells to Union Square. Not the greatest of photos due to a sudden burst of heavy rain however I'm unsure if I'll be...

www.flickr.com

 

[Snow1964]

I expect more than a few Electroliners. From what I'm hearing there's some discontent about the BYD/ADL products.

There might also be build capacity limitations. There are at least 100 E400EVs for Go Ahead London, something like 130 for Coventry, the 50 just confirmed for Manchester, and lots of smaller orders. Plus lots of orders for single deck E200EV

There have also been rumours of some sort of cap on the number of BYD chassis, which might be why ADL are looking to build their own new buses from late 2023

Wrightbus does have 110 orders for TFI, Transport for Ireland, and some smaller orders, and recently announced 193 bus order with First.

So how much the discontent is build quality, and how much is price or long lead times isn’t clear.

 

[Goldfish62]

There might also be build capacity limitations. There are at least 100 E400EVs for Go Ahead London, something like 130 for Coventry, the 50 just confirmed for Manchester, and lots of smaller orders. Plus lots of orders for single deck E200EV

There have also been rumours of some sort of cap on the number of BYD chassis, which might be why ADL are looking to build their own new buses from late 2023

Wrightbus does have 110 orders for TFI, Transport for Ireland, and some smaller orders, and recently announced 193 bus order with First.

So how much the discontent is build quality, and how much is price or long lead times isn’t clear.

I don't disagree with any of what your saying but my comment was in relation to the recently announced London tenders. The 100 BYDs for GoAhead London are from previously announced tender awards.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If I were an operator I don't think I'd be too happy with the the a d l byd product either. Yes I have a strong personal bias against anything ADL build that isn't a plaxton coach but also because the performance to my way of thinking anyway leaves a lot to be desired. A friend lives on the 29th in Sunbury and is getting heartily sick of evening buses not turning up because the electric e200 allocated have run out of juice by the time she's finished work and and getting diesel replacements on stream has taken longer than planned or they simply haven't bothered. And because it's on the fringes of TFL bus operations she doesn't think they'll step in and do anything about it


The 290 seems a slightly odd fit for the current electric offerings anyway to my mind. And then of course there is build quality. When the MMC concepts was launched I made much pump and fanfare they said they had built a rattle proof bus. Anyone who has travelled on one in recent times will know that they've either reneged on this or it was a load of that a rubbish in the first place. I await feedback from those on routes served by new generation wrightbus products which apparently seem to enter service without too much issue but how do they do after a few months or years of hard work

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

ADL Products are subpar.

Everything from the build quality to there standard chassis, I stand by Volvo being the best provider of a bus chassis next to MCV as a body builder.

 

[MotCO]

And despite the rumblings of discontent with ADL products, Switch can still not attract any meaningful sales in thre UK. Is the Metrodecker worse than the E400EV?

(For example, Go Ahead bought some Metrodeckers for TfL route 200, but are still buying ADL 400EVs elsewhere.)

 

[Goldfish62]

And despite the rumblings of discontent with ADL products, Switch can still not attract any meaningful sales in thre UK. Is the Metrodecker worse than the E400EV?

(For example, Go Ahead bought some Metrodeckers for TfL route 200, but are still buying ADL 400EVs elsewhere.)

The reason they bought the Metrodecker is because the BYD EV400 was too long for route 200 and the Metrodecker was the only shorter electric double deck on the market at the time.

The specific issue with the BYD is its very long wheelbase for its overall length.

 

[Beemax]

And despite the rumblings of discontent with ADL products, Switch can still not attract any meaningful sales in thre UK. Is the Metrodecker worse than the E400EV?

(For example, Go Ahead bought some Metrodeckers for TfL route 200, but are still buying ADL 400EVs elsewhere.)

I regularly catch a Metrodecker EV on the Tower Transit 23 from Paddington, or an ADL E400 MMC which runs on the partially parallel 36. I find the Metrodeckers far less rattly than the MMCs are (and were at a similar age.)

 

[Blindtraveler]

I can well believe that. Build quality was never the issue there in my mind but more what was under the bonnet when it came to diesel. A lot of the Mercedes engine vehicles were absolutely terrible although the commons examples Roberta so on pure electric should think you have a pretty good bus there. Have not yet tried one but thanks to this helpful discussion drawing my attention to their regular performances on the 223 I shall definitely have a go next time I'm in the locality

 

[Eyersey468]

ADL Products are subpar.

Everything from the build quality to there standard chassis, I stand by Volvo being the best provider of a bus chassis next to MCV as a body builder.

I disagree about MCV being the best bodybuilder, the build quality of our Evosetis is terrible. I drove one of the 67 plates when it was a fortnight old and couldn't believe how bad it was, I honestly thought it would fall apart. To be fair the 66 plates aren't quite as bad but the 67 plates give the impression of being thrown together at 6pm on a Friday night. We also have some Evolutions and the windows on them move so much it looks like they will fall out.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

ADL Products are subpar.

Everything from the build quality to the chassis option, I stand by Volvo being the best provider of a bus chassis.

I disagree about MCV being the best bodybuilder, the build quality of our Evosetis is terrible. I drove one of the 67 plates when it was a fortnight old and couldn't believe how bad it was, I honestly thought it would fall apart. To be fair the 66 plates aren't quite as bad but the 67 plates give the impression of being thrown together at 6pm on a Friday night. We also have some Evolutions and the windows on them move so much it looks like they will fall out.

I digress, I've never travelled on or driven anything with the EvoSeti bodywork.

I have driven Wright Gemini B5TLs in the time I spent working at Lothian Buses, Volvo is superior to the ADL integral bus chassis, I'd say that maybe ADL bodywork seems to work best on Volvo underpinnings, as for being a passenger I've travelled on Lothians ADL bodied B5TL & B8L tri-axles, I like both, but again there defined by being on Volvo Chassis.

I've driven an Evolution 2-bodied B8RLE single that's currently stationed with Glasgow Citybus, I'd argue it's probably the best single decker that's on the road this far, amongst comparing it to the 200 MMC/BYD EV or any other bus with a Scania or MAN chassis.

I've not driven anything with the newer Evora Bodywork but have travelled on Lothian Buses, I'm still impressed.

About the only bus I've never driven or travelled on is the Mercedes Citaro.

 

[GusB]

Could we keep this thread for discussing actual manufacturer news, please? It's turning into more of an opinion thread. Thanks

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Design for an Asian market? Thank god it isn't coming to the UK any time soon.

Yutong battery-electric double-decker coming in 2023 - routeone

Pelican Bus and Coach will introduce a long-expected Yutong battery-electric double-decker bus to the UK in 2023.

www.route-one.net

Pelican Bus and Coach will introduce a long-anticipated Yutong battery-electric double-decker bus to the UK in 2023, the dealership has confirmed.

A seed right-hand drive, 10.9m example has been constructed and is currently under test in China to simulate one million kilometres’ utilisation. That bus will be exclusively used for development purposes and it will not come to the UK, but once required testing markers are satisfied, Yutong will build a single-door demonstrator for Pelican.

While the product will be new in the UK, Head of Yutong Sales Ian Downie notes that Yutong has already placed battery-electric double-deckers into service in China and in right-hand drive, air-conditioned, three-axle form in Singapore. Learnings from those have influenced development of the UK vehicle. A rendering has been created indicating what the model will look like. It shares clear styling cues with the Singapore buses.

The UK double-decker will share the driveline of the Yutong E10 and E12 single-deckers that are already established in here, although it will come with 385kW/h of battery capacity. It will also have the same cab area.

 

[Blindtraveler]

That Yutong decker could be very interesting indeed. It provides a bit more choice and and it's not a complete new market entrant, as the single deck buses and coaches are starting to become established.

 

[ClydeCoaster]

What actually is happening with the BZL? It's unveiling was a year ago now and while the single deck has made an appearance in Kent and Ireland, its still not registered and the double deck is nowhere to be seen?

As for the Yutong decker, I think its going to be popular from the day the order books open. I admit I would quite like to dislike the E12s McGills operate locally to me but I can't. They're well put together and their range and endurance appear impressive, regularly stretching their legs on the Paisley to Largs 904.

That's certainly not a design for Asia though, that's Yutong's new bus family look and there are already 3 axle variants in operation in Singapore. I also confess I quite like it; I find it weirdly retro looking, like a 21st century Guy Wulfranian, and a bit hang-dog.