Railway-wise, what is each country best at?

[Austriantrain]

This is ridiculously expensive. In Belgium, an equivalent ticket, say from Ghent to Arlon, would cost € 21,8. And if you buy a "standard multi" card, you get 10 trips from anywhere to anywhere in Belgium for € 8,4. So I think that in the "which country does what best" list, you can add for Belgium "propose travel at decent prices".

Switzerland is a very expensive country not only for railways, but salaries and income in general are much higher as well…

 

[AdamWW]

Switzerland is a very expensive country not only for railways, but salaries and income in general are much higher as well…

Indeed. Try scaling by the cost of a Big Mac...

 

[johncrossley]

However, the Swiss GA ticket is good value at 3860 CHF per year.

 

[MarcVD]

Switzerland is a very expensive country not only for railways, but salaries and income in general are much higher as well…

Median salary in Switzerland is about twice the Belgian one. Price difference for this train trip is more like 4...

 

[duesselmartin]

As to the Belgian comparision, Switzerland has a fully reliable and fully integrated transport system. Halbtax or Generalabo valid on any public transport.
As to tourists, they pay the CHF200 to Jungfraujoch and return. That is why they charge it.

 

[Austriantrain]

Median salary in Switzerland is about twice the Belgian one. Price difference for this train trip is more like 4...

But (almost) no Swiss actually pays the full price… the actually paid price is only double the Belgian one, so compares well to income.

 

[tasky]

Switzerland is a very expensive country not only for railways, but salaries and income in general are much higher as well…

Not sure why the forum's quote software seem to think it was me who said this by the way (it was another poster)

 

[AdamWW]

But (almost) no Swiss actually pays the full price… the actually paid price is only double the Belgian one, so compares well to income.

And compare with somewhere in Europe more expensive than Belgium (I don't think you have to look far) and Switzerland is cheaper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As to tourists, they pay the CHF200 to Jungfraujoch and return. That is why they charge it.

Indeed, Jungfraujoch is (like some other examples e.g. Blonay-Les Pleiades) considered a route that doesn't serve a public transport purpose and is purely a tourist route, and those are charged at a "commercial" rate and don't receive subsidy. don't doubt the Jungfraubahn costs a fortune to operate. It isn't in the Generalabonnemement but I believe all discount card holders get 50% off, or at least I did on my Halbtax when I did it.

Notably it went "all Avanti" on me when I did it - the main ticket window said "sold out" (so in that context the price is right) but I got on anyway by having bought a through walk-up without reservation from the TVM

 

[AdamWW]

Indeed, Jungfraujoch is (like some other examples e.g. Blonay-Les Pleiades) considered a route that doesn't serve a public transport purpose and is purely a tourist route, and those are charged at a "commercial" rate and don't receive subsidy. don't doubt the Jungfraubahn costs a fortune to operate. It isn't in the Generalabonnemement but I believe all discount card holders get 50% off, or at least I did on my Halbtax when I did it.

Notably it went "all Avanti" on me when I did it - the main ticket window said "sold out" (so in that context the price is right) but I got on anyway by having bought a through walk-up without reservation from the TVM

So far as I can see - along with many other entirely tourist railways in Switzerland - it's treated (apart from prices) like most Swiss public transport, appearing on the SBB (and no doubt other) journey planners.

The Zugspitzbahn in Germany (which also goes up the inside of a mountain, and is well worth doing - a fascinating railway with a variety of rolling stock) is interesting because the lower part of it is considered as regular public transport, then when it gets to the rack part it's purely a tourist railway.

On the lower part you can use the Bavaria ticket (and I think the 9 Euro ticket when it was available this summer) for free travel, but you have to collect a ticket to work the ski pass style barriers.

It's not as expensive as the Jungfraujoch but it's not cheap, and again the maintenance costs must be considerable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Zugspitzbahn in Germany (which also goes up the inside of a mountain, and is well worth doing - a fascinating railway with a variety of rolling stock) is interesting because the lower part of it is considered as regular public transport, then when it gets to the rack part it's purely a tourist railway.

That's quite common. It's true of Vevey-Blonay-Les Pleiades and Montreux-Glion-Rochers-de-Naye.

 

[Austriantrain]

Not sure why the forum's quote software seem to think it was me who said this by the way (it was another poster)

I think it’s my fault, I edited the quote, did something wrong and was unable to correct it. Sorry!

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

This is ridiculously expensive. In Belgium, an equivalent ticket, say from Ghent to Arlon, would cost € 21,8. And if you buy a "standard multi" card, you get 10 trips from anywhere to anywhere in Belgium for € 8,4. So I think that in the "which country does what best" list, you can add for Belgium "propose travel at decent prices".

And how many mountain routes are there in Belgium?! Think of the difference in traction energy or maintenance requirements. Or even locations where rail really is the most or even only practical transport option.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And how many mountain routes are there in Belgium?! Think of the difference in traction energy or maintenance requirements. Or even locations where rail really is the most or even only practical transport option.

I think it's more that wages are so high in CH. What does a 500ml bottle of Coke typically cost in Belgium? 10 years ago or thereabouts it was CHF5, whereas in the UK it'd have been about £1.29, so that shows the cost of living being about 3 times the UK. The "Big Mac exchange rate" and "Starbucks grande latte exchange rate" (both somewhere around the CHF10 mark) weren't far off either.

If you look at it that way even the un-Halbtaxed train fares aren't excessive.

 

[johncrossley]

I think it's more that wages are so high in CH. What does a 500ml bottle of Coke typically cost in Belgium? 10 years ago or thereabouts it was CHF5, whereas in the UK it'd have been about £1.29, so that shows the cost of living being about 3 times the UK. The "Big Mac exchange rate" and "Starbucks grande latte exchange rate" (both somewhere around the CHF10 mark) weren't far off either.

If you look at it that way even the un-Halbtaxed train fares aren't excessive.

On a recent visit to Switzerland, I was surprised how cheap Coke is in the supermarket! 1.35 CHF for 500 ml, 0.95 for 330 ml, and sugary versions don't cost any more. Those prices are cheaper than Tesco.

Migros

Commandez en ligne et gagnez du temps - nous vous livrons vos courses à votre porte. 12'500 produits Migros à prix Migros et articles de marque

www.migros.ch

Migros

Commandez en ligne et gagnez du temps - nous vous livrons vos courses à votre porte. 12'500 produits Migros à prix Migros et articles de marque

www.migros.ch

But they have the insanely expensive "K Kiosk" in Switzerland, where I wouldn't be surprised to pay 5.00 CHF for a can of Coke.

 

[Beebman]

Maybe not the best comparison, but on my recent Interrail trip I bought a sandwich, packet of crisps and a 500ml bottle of Coke on a Czech CD RailJet and a similar meal (but with a panini instead of a sandwich) on a Swiss SBB Pendolino. I bought both with my credit card. For the former the charge on my card was £3.61, for the latter it was £15.35.

 

[AdamWW]

And how many mountain routes are there in Belgium?! Think of the difference in traction energy or maintenance requirements. Or even locations where rail really is the most or even only practical transport option.

Then again I believe the Swiss railways do very nicely from large quantities of through freight. Very hard to make valid comparisons I would have thought.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, I was thinking of station kiosks, vending machines etc. Supermarket food in CH is surprisingly cheap given the cost of everything else. Which makes sense when you think about it - in a high wage economy, it's things including staff that cost a lot. Same with the railway - it's mostly DOO on regional services, all self-dispatch etc so quite cheap on staff. But a meal out is easily £40-50 each, and even a buzz cut at the barbers upwards of £30. It's an interesting study into what whacking the minimum wage right up (say to £15) might do in the UK, though CH actually doesn't have a minimum wage, it just culturally doesn't do low pay.

Other one is that housing is London prices everywhere.

 

[DanielB]

Yeah, I was thinking of station kiosks, vending machines etc.

Even those are not that high. Prices at station kiosks were actually similar to station kiosks in the Netherlands.
A bottle of water at the K Kiosk in Switzerland was even cheaper than in the Netherlands.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even those are not that high. Prices at station kiosks were actually similar to station kiosks in the Netherlands.
A bottle of water at the K Kiosk in Switzerland was even cheaper than in the Netherlands.

In 2010-2011 CHF5 (sometimes 4.50) was standard at those for a 500ml bottle of fizzy drink. Water is generally cheap though, it usually is in countries where mineral water is the norm.

It might be that the later (2015ish?) unpegging of the CHF from the Euro has shifted things about a bit, though.

 

[AdamWW]

Even those are not that high. Prices at station kiosks were actually similar to station kiosks in the Netherlands.
A bottle of water at the K Kiosk in Switzerland was even cheaper than in the Netherlands.

Ah now there's a "what is each country best at" entry.

The UK for providing facilities for filling water bottles at (some) stations.

Even if you're not bothered about the environmental impact of buying water bottles it saves money too. (At least many countries have deposits on bottles, but it's still not great to use a bottle once then recycle it).

 

[dm1]

Ah now there's a "what is each country best at" entry.

The UK for providing facilities for filling water bottles at (some) stations.

I think Switzerland has us beat on that one too. Fountains absolutely everywhere, including at most stations.

 

[DanielB]

Couldn't find a more recent number than from 2019, but that year NS had facilities for filling water bottles at 200 of 398 Dutch stations. And those are only the ones initiated by NS, there are several stations where the local water supplier placed a tap.

 

[AdamWW]

Couldn't find a more recent number than from 2019, but that year NS had facilities for filling water bottles at 200 of 398 Dutch stations. And those are only the ones initiated by NS, there are several stations where the local water supplier placed a tap.

I can't have been paying attention then!

 

[MisterT]

There is an up-to-date map on ns.nl: https://www.ns.nl/binaries/_ht_1656...s/watertappunten-op-stations-in-nederland.pdf
All stations with a light blue water drop have a water refill point.

 

[OldandRambling]

I don't think there is much interest here for Indian railways, but I do feel they may fit into the spirit of this topic?
Many trains run a wide range of coach "classes", basic and also air conditioned on the one train. Many trains also are just comprised of cheap and basic accommodations for the common folk, and there are also all air conditioned trains for the wealthier folk.
Given the huge and impoverished population, I feel that Indian railways are very "fit for purpose" in satisfying the populations diverse needs.
(No, even after 5 or 6 visits, I have not seen any folk at all on the roofs of trains... )

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indian railways are fascinating, but they really do fail on offering adequate capacity - waiting lists are months long sometimes.

 

[MarcVD]

Indian railways are fascinating, but they really do fail on offering adequate capacity - waiting lists are months long sometimes.

While being often quite impressive regarding their length. Never been there (still hoping to go) but seen some videos with train consists of 20+ cars...

 

[CarrotPie]

One of those systems with surprising contradictory aspects. Taking the Pendolino from Helsinki to Turku, 200 km/h in part, other substantial parts of the route single line, with waiting for oncoming services more than cancelling out the speed. Do they run at 200 km/h on single line?

They run at 200 km/h after they leave the suburbs of Helsinki all the way to Turku, so only on single track. Incidentally, that same track is only 160-180 km/h for locomotive-hauled trains and EMUs. Through exceptional timetabling and judicious placement of stations and speed restrictions, stations are ~30 minutes travel time apart, so an hourly service is easily acheived. Delays are dealt with by having about a dozen passing places at strategic locations (every 5-10 minutes travel time), so late trains can be looped outside of stations. This is all helped by the line having but a few non-passenger services a week (mainly ECS and maintenance), all of which are at nights.