Stagecoach East (Bedford, Cambridge, Huntingdon and Peterborough)

[camflyer]

Big cuts to services around Cambridge announced by Stagecoach. This at the same time that Cambridge is proposing a contestation charge

CambsNews — News for Peterborough and Cambridgeshire

Breaking news, investigations and what's on across Peterborough, Cambridge, Ely, Wisbech, March, Huntingdon and Fenland.

www.cambsnews.co.uk

Anger over Cambridgeshire bus company axing 18 routes

The county's mayor says the company should not be cutting routes while accepting government funding.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Megafuss]

Is Ely outstation closing? That is my interpretation. Actually, are all the outstations going, March and Holbeach Drove?

 

[riceuten]

You wonder if this is some kind of pathetic "negotiating tactic" used by Stagecoach to win funding for some of the routes it proposes to abandon?

 

[higthomas]

Full details at https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/east/east-bus-network

On Sunday 30th October 2022, we will be introducing a new, sustainable bus network to the communities of Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and Peterborough to reflect post-pandemic travel patterns.

Bus use in the UK has only partially recovered since the pandemic. Local bus operators, including Stagecoach, have been working to re-base local bus networks to take account of changes in people’s travel habits, lower passenger numbers, rising costs and labour challenges. This will ensure we can provide a sustainable network that we hope can grow over the longer-term.

They are increasing frequencies on some of their more well used routes, generally the city ones.

I imagine it might be to do with the driver shortage meaning that they cannot both increase city frequencies, and maintain rural ones, so they're prioritizing.

 

[camflyer]

You wonder if this is some kind of pathetic "negotiating tactic" used by Stagecoach to win funding for some of the routes it proposes to abandon?

That's the only possible logic behind this.

These cuts particularly hit Newmarket which would lose the 11 and 12 which provide direct services to Cambridge, Ely and Bury St Edmunds which are all well used. Newmarket always suffers from being close to Cambridge but being on the wrong side of the border for Cambridgeshire authorities to have to worry about.

 

[riceuten]

That's the only possible logic behind this.

These cuts particularly hit Newmarket which would lose the 11 and 12 which provide direct services to Cambridge, Ely and Bury St Edmunds which are all well used. Newmarket always suffers from being close to Cambridge but being on the wrong side of the border for Cambridgeshire authorities to have to worry about.

We've got a route in North Herts like that, normally runs to Luton Airport Parkway during the week, but runs to a village on the Herts/Beds border at the weekend, because Central Bedfordshire Council refuses to co-fund it. As I recall, most of the suburbs of Newmarket are in Cambs, but the town itself is in Suffolk.

 

[buslad1988]

These cuts particularly hit Newmarket which would lose the 11 and 12 which provide direct services to Cambridge, Ely and Bury St Edmunds which are all well used. Newmarket always suffers from being close to Cambridge but being on the wrong side of the border for Cambridgeshire authorities to have to worry about.

Indeed! And Suffolk County Council haven’t got the best track record for supporting bus services. With these changes that’s Stagecoach removed from Suffolk entirely?

Bury St Edmunds really is a dire place for buses now. Cut off from pretty much everywhere regularly except Colchester, Sudbury and Thetford.

 

[MikeWM]

Operation 'remove all bus services from Ely' continuing its onward march, I see. Does no-one commute between Ely/Soham and Newmarket, or vice-versa? Because the train is hardly a useable alternative for that.

But hey, they'll be putting in massive improvements to buses in the near future in exchange for introducing a congestion charge, and once they've started they'll keep them running and at very high frequencies for years to come, honest

 

[Bletchleyite]

Operation 'remove all bus services from Ely' continuing its onward march, I see. Does no-one commute between Ely/Soham and Newmarket, or vice-versa? Because the train is hardly a useable alternative for that.

But hey, they'll be putting in massive improvements to buses in the near future in exchange for introducing a congestion charge, and once they've started they'll keep them running and at very high frequencies for years to come, honest

Cambridgeshire, away from the railway which exists primarily to get people to/from London but does provide side benefit, is a very difficult one, being a highly car-unfriendly small city located pretty much in the middle of a field, and a very well off field at that with very high car ownership. I suspect Park and Ride is likely to be the only really feasible way to transport people in such rural areas, perhaps with some nudging to switch the car part to EV by making the parking free or cheaper only for EV users rather than ICE users and providing chargers (13A slow chargers would be fine, people stay there all day) at the car parks. But that's more about Cambridge, I don't really know about Ely.

Drawing a parallel with Lancaster where the small operator Kirkby Lonsdale Coaches does pretty much all the "thin" local routes, is there a local independent which may step in?

 

[Af317]

Some very strange "enchancements" too, although the 1 and 7 are just restoring pre-covid frequencies. All 13s seem to continue from Haverhill to Little Wratting including Sundays! While missing out most of Haverhill

Similar to the 9 now serving Littleport each hour but missing out Milton village and Waterbeach but at least it gains later evening and sunday services with the Milton P&R extension although it loses its link to Milton village and tesco... Surely just a half hourly 9 all day, operating the same route as now would have been much simpler. Also Waterbeach appears to have 3 very late buses on a sunday only between 2333 and 0033 with those last 3s extending from Fison road I assume via Horningsea, Which only gets 2 buses each way monday to friday and no Saturday service


St Neots loses its direct link to the science park, it looks like the 905 will no longer serve Cambourne, so no chance of a simple change there to continue on the rerouted 4

As for the rest of the cuts I've always found the 12 well used and the 18 at least as far as Comberton, Same with the Huntingdon 30/35/66. If all these go ahead you can hardly call Cambridgeshire's bus services a network anymore

 

[overthewater]

It's a bit weird cuts are being made just shy of the £2 fare coming into operation, which could have generated a lot of new business.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a bit weird cuts are being made just shy of the £2 fare coming into operation, which could have generated a lot of new business.

Is there much indication of how that will be funded, or could it be, like ENCTS, such that it actually causes cuts?

 

[Megafuss]

Some very strange "enchancements" too, although the 1 and 7 are just restoring pre-covid frequencies. All 13s seem to continue from Haverhill to Little Wratting including Sundays! While missing out most of Haverhill

Similar to the 9 now serving Littleport each hour but missing out Milton village and Waterbeach but at least it gains later evening and sunday services with the Milton P&R extension although it loses its link to Milton village and tesco... Surely just a half hourly 9 all day, operating the same route as now would have been much simpler. Also Waterbeach appears to have 3 very late buses on a sunday only between 2333 and 0033 with those last 3s extending from Fison road I assume via Horningsea, Which only gets 2 buses each way monday to friday and no Saturday service


St Neots loses its direct link to the science park, it looks like the 905 will no longer serve Cambourne, so no chance of a simple change there to continue on the rerouted 4

As for the rest of the cuts I've always found the 12 well used and the 18 at least as far as Comberton, Same with the Huntingdon 30/35/66. If all these go ahead you can hardly call Cambridgeshire's bus services a network anymore

They don't believe in differential running times either. A Citi 1 at 0545 has the same time from Arbury to Fulbourn as at 1625

 

[Af317]

They don't believe in differential running times either. A Citi 1 at 0545 has the same time from Arbury to Fulbourn as at 1625

Same on the Citi 3, Somehow the first journeys of the day take 10 minutes longer than after 7pm.

 

[ashkeba]

If the mayor really believes this is wrong, can't he step in and franchise services?

But it has probably been so long since there were good services, it may be difficult to know what needs to run.

 

[MikeWM]

Cambridgeshire, away from the railway which exists primarily to get people to/from London but does provide side benefit, is a very difficult one, being a highly car-unfriendly small city located pretty much in the middle of a field, and a very well off field at that with very high car ownership. I suspect Park and Ride is likely to be the only really feasible way to transport people in such rural areas, perhaps with some nudging to switch the car part to EV by making the parking free or cheaper only for EV users rather than ICE users and providing chargers (13A slow chargers would be fine, people stay there all day) at the car parks. But that's more about Cambridge, I don't really know about Ely.

Ely is a bit odd, because most people own cars (often I feel like the only person living there that doesn't!) and there isn't much reliance on buses - I think it is more from people in the villages around to come *to* Ely, for shopping etc.

Nevertheless, the decline over the last 15 years has been significant, and if the 12 is also removed, we're left with almost nothing apart from the 9 to Cambridge and occasionally in the other direction to Littleport etc., which itself is a shadow of what is was 15 years ago (I've got a timetable for it in 2009, which shows it was more frequent and ran far later into the evening and also ran on Sundays!).

I really don't see how you can persuade people out of cars around here, because we've learnt that you simply can't rely on the buses, whatever grand schemes the 'Greater Cambridge Partnership' says in one of its many reports that have made some consultants rich and done precious little else.

Drawing a parallel with Lancaster where the small operator Kirkby Lonsdale Coaches does pretty much all the "thin" local routes, is there a local independent which may step in?

The only other significant local service is the 'Ely Zipper', which itself is in serious trouble. The latest info on that appears to be from our MP, doesn't sound promising.

https://www.lucyfrazer.org.uk/news/update-ely-zipper

I know that the “Ely Zipper” is an extremely popular bus service locally, performing 22,000 passenger journeys each year. It’s also a lifeline for many of my constituents who use it, whether that’s to go to the shops, visit family or commute to work.

And so I appreciate that the decision by Dews Coaches, the current provider of the Ely Zipper, to terminate its contract early, has caused worry for the numerous people in my constituency who use this bus service daily.

I’m grateful to East Cambridgeshire District Council who’ve stepped up to provide the funding necessary to secure this service until the beginning of October, when Dews’ contract was originally due to end.

 

[camflyer]

If the mayor really believes this is wrong, can't he step in and franchise services?

But it has probably been so long since there were good services, it may be difficult to know what needs to run.

I remember when the last bus from Cambridge Drummer St towards Newmarket was at 11pm (there was a time when it even served Cambridge railway station - handy if you missed the last train). For the past few years there has been nothing in the evening at all and soon to be nothing all day.

Unfortunately the people of Suffolk don't get to vote for the Cambridgeshire mayor so there is no incentive to provide good cross-border services.

 

[A0]

Could I suggest the thread is renamed to Stagecoach East changes - because the link in post 4 shows that it's not just Cambridge(shire) that's being affected and there doesn't seem alot of point in having separate threads for each of the areas affected.

 

[GusB]

Could I suggest the thread is renamed to Stagecoach East changes - because the link in post 4 shows that it's not just Cambridge(shire) that's being affected and there doesn't seem alot of point in having separate threads for each of the areas affected.

Done!

 

[philjo]

The changes to the 11 will cause problems for those using the bus to get to school or college from the numerous villages on this route, especially those attending Bottisham college. It is also used by visitors to Anglesey Abbey (National Trust).

 

[overthewater]

I really don't see how you can persuade people out of cars around here, because we've learnt that you simply can't rely on the buses, whatever grand schemes the 'Greater Cambridge Partnership' says in one of its many reports that have made some consultants rich and done precious little else.

Yet the Busway seems to have been a runaway success? So it can be done.

 

[Magdalia]

Big cuts to services around Cambridge announced by Stagecoach. This at the same time that Cambridge is proposing a contestation charge

CambsNews — News for Peterborough and Cambridgeshire

Breaking news, investigations and what's on across Peterborough, Cambridge, Ely, Wisbech, March, Huntingdon and Fenland.

www.cambsnews.co.uk

Anger over Cambridgeshire bus company axing 18 routes

The county's mayor says the company should not be cutting routes while accepting government funding.

www.bbc.co.uk

This was lead story on the Cambridge Look East this evening, including mention of the congestion charge proposal.

Full details at https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/east/east-bus-network


They are increasing frequencies on some of their more well used routes, generally the city ones.

I imagine it might be to do with the driver shortage meaning that they cannot both increase city frequencies, and maintain rural ones, so they're prioritizing.

Thanks for the Stagecoach link, which I couldn't find after watching Look East. Announcing the changes under promotions and offers is Orwellian!

I'd agree with your assessment of the reason for the changes.

The changes to the 11 will cause problems for those using the bus to get to school or college from the numerous villages on this route, especially those attending Bottisham college.

The same will apply for the 18 at Comberton, and possibly also the 915 at Melbourn. Maybe a 611 and a 618 for school traffic are just around the corner?

 

[SteveHFC]

If I read the new MK1 timetable correctly - it'll no longer be serving the stop in Challney close to M1 J11 that the 99 currently serves. There's no way on this earth that they could get a bus from Luton Airport to Amazon in MK in 26 minutes including a stop there. That's my back up route to work if the car is off the road screwed.

Will Stagecoach refund tickets that can't be used once the changes have been put in place? (Rhetorical question that obviously I'll have to ask them)

 

[camflyer]

Matt Hancock is on the case. We are saved!

MP vows to fight plan to axe 'lifeline' bus services

MP Matt Hancock has pledged to fight a bus company's controversial decision to axe services to two towns.

www.suffolknews.co.uk

West Suffolk MP Matt Hancock has pledged to fight a bus company's controversial decision to axe services to two towns.

Stagecoach has revealed 18 of its routes will be withdrawn, including the 11/X11 from Cambridge, which stops in Newmarket and Bury St Edmunds.

Route 12, which travels between Cambridge and Ely, also stopping in Newmarket, will also be scrapped.

Bury St Edmunds bus station, where the 11/X11 route ends. Picture: Mecha MortonBury St Edmunds bus station, where the 11/X11 route ends. Picture: Mecha Morton
It says the services are 'unsustainable' but Dr Nik Johnson, Mayor of Cambridgeshire and Peterborough, said the vital rural bus networks should be protected.

This afternoon, Mr Hancock said he was deeply concerned at the move which had sparked a flood of emails from worried constituents.

 

[Magdalia]

Drawing a parallel with Lancaster where the small operator Kirkby Lonsdale Coaches does pretty much all the "thin" local routes, is there a local independent which may step in?

A2B operate a few local routes, but they probably have the same issues with recruitment and retention of drivers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2022 ==

the 9 now serving Littleport each hour but missing out Milton village and Waterbeach

Another route going direct and missing out intermediate villages is the 4 to Cambourne.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yet the Busway seems to have been a runaway success? So it can be done.

The Busway route itself has, but with the V routes going the whole "fan out" concept is near enough dead, including the connectional version of it, and that was a good part of the alleged reason for not building a tramway...

I guess it backs up my point about P&R, though.

 

[Man of Kent]

You wonder if this is some kind of pathetic "negotiating tactic" used by Stagecoach to win funding for some of the routes it proposes to abandon?

It's the reality of trying to run commercial bus services with 75% of the pre-Covid passenger numbers (the figure that Stagecoach East MD Darren Roe has quoted to the press). There simply isn't enough money to keep the whole network going, made worse by rapidly rising costs.

This was exactly the point of the Network Reviews that the Department for Transport required to be carried out, to identify what could run without/with subsidy, and this level of slashing will be repeated across the country. At the moment many local transport authorities are trying to negotiate to retain services or tender for replacements, but the only outcome without huge amounts of public cash is a thinner network. The recent extension to Bus Recovery Grant is a sticking plaster for a gaping wound gushing blood.

 

[Megafuss]

It's the reality of trying to run commercial bus services with 75% of the pre-Covid passenger numbers (the figure that Stagecoach East MD Darren Roe has quoted to the press). There simply isn't enough money to keep the whole network going, made worse by rapidly rising costs.

This was exactly the point of the Network Reviews that the Department for Transport required to be carried out, to identify what could run without/with subsidy, and this level of slashing will be repeated across the country. At the moment many local transport authorities are trying to negotiate to retain services or tender for replacements, but the only outcome without huge amounts of public cash is a thinner network. The recent extension to Bus Recovery Grant is a sticking plaster for a gaping wound gushing blood.

Yup

'Stagecoach East says the 18 services across Cambridgeshire they plan to cancel have been losing £12 per passenger per journey on average......Some of them, where numbers have dropped as low as around only 50 customers per week, are costing up to £80 per passenger'

Quote from Cambridge News

 

[ashkeba]

Matt Hancock is on the case. We are saved!

MP vows to fight plan to axe 'lifeline' bus services

MP Matt Hancock has pledged to fight a bus company's controversial decision to axe services to two towns.

www.suffolknews.co.uk

He says he will do all he can to fight the cuts. So that will be nothing but talk then? Unless he can somehow convince a minister to make his part of Suffolk part of the Cambs mayoralty and get Johnson to fund services.

 

[A0]

It's the reality of trying to run commercial bus services with 75% of the pre-Covid passenger numbers

I'd add to that, not only is it passenger numbers being 25% down, there's no evidence of them recovering either. If Stagecoach were seeing week on week people gradually returning to the services, I suspect they wouldn't be taking this action, but the reality is over a period of weeks if not months they are seeing these numbers flat line, which isn't sustainable.

Not for the first time, we're seeing a change which the Covid pandemic caused. People changed their behaviours by working differently, shopping differently, travelling differently. There will, no doubt, be many people on here and other boards complaining bitterly about some of these changes - I'm expecting the Northampton - Bedford 41 changes to get a load of complaints, but whenever I see that bus on the A428 it's virtually empty. Just because 30 years ago people travelled to Northampton or Bedford to go shopping doesn't mean they still want to now. And bus services should run where there is demand, not where there is historic precedent.