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Substantive bus service withdrawals post-Covid

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TheGrandWazoo

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The X17 is long enough already. Maybe bring back the X32 or whatever it was called from Sheffield to Leeds?
It was the X32 Sheffield to Leeds via Barnsley (along with X33 Sheffield - Barnsley - Wakefield - Dewsbury - Bradford)

However, not certain why extending the X17 would be any more successful than just reintroducing off peak X10s?
 
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A0

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As of last Sunday Stagecoach Oxford Route 200 (Banbury to Brackley, every 30 mins inc eves and Sundays) has been cut by half and the Sunday Service withdrawn. No changes to Route so the smaller villages eg Middleton Cheney and Chacombe are still served.
Locals are furious about the lack of notice they were given. School Children are having 2 hours added on to their day and One Person sats he will now have to pay £25 for a Taxi each night as there are no longer any Buses home for him as he finishes Work at 7pm...

The 200 isn't Banbury - Brackley - the 200 is Banbury - Woodford - Daventry (and that runs hourly and didn't run on Sundays).

You mean the 500 which is the Brackley - Banbury bus.

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Perhaps the complainants should be getting on to their local councillors, as I don't believe either Northamponshire Unitary authorities, or Oxfordshire, subsidise much in the way of bus services......

The 500 was being supported by S106 funding from the house building in the Brackley area - that funding has ended and evidently it hasn't generated sufficient use.

That it's now an hourly service puts it on par with the 200 (Daventry - Banbury), so it's not as if there is no bus and there are many other places (bigger than Brackley and the intermediate points to Banbury) which only have an hourly service.
 

londonteacher

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Ultimately if there are not enough people using the service then it is not viable. Unfortunate, but the way it goes.
The 200 isn't Banbury - Brackley - the 200 is Banbury - Woodford - Daventry (and that runs hourly and didn't run on Sundays).

You mean the 500 which is the Brackley - Banbury bus.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==



The 500 was being supported by S106 funding from the house building in the Brackley area - that funding has ended and evidently it hasn't generated sufficient use.

That it's now an hourly service puts it on par with the 200 (Daventry - Banbury), so it's not as if there is no bus and there are many other places (bigger than Brackley and the intermediate points to Banbury) which only have an hourly service.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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The 500 was being supported by S106 funding from the house building in the Brackley area - that funding has ended and evidently it hasn't generated sufficient use.

That it's now an hourly service puts it on par with the 200 (Daventry - Banbury), so it's not as if there is no bus and there are many other places (bigger than Brackley and the intermediate points to Banbury) which only have an hourly service.
That makes some sense as I did think it surprising given the evening service. I wouldn't say it puts on a par with the 200 - that is only surviving as some funds have been found for it to continue whereas the 500 is probably self-sustaining.

Interesting to look back at the old Great British Bus Timetable (thanks to Timetable World) - the 1997 service was considerably worse!

1662132923526.png

1662133018054.png
 

NorthernSpirit

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It was the X32 Sheffield to Leeds via Barnsley (along with X33 Sheffield - Barnsley - Wakefield - Dewsbury - Bradford)

However, not certain why extending the X17 would be any more successful than just reintroducing off peak X10s?
I've looked at it from the perspective of one route, many destinations. That and the marketing push which would show that you'd be able to bus it from Matlock to Leeds/ Leeds to Matlock, might sound mad but if Transdev can do it with the 36 and Coastliner then it why not Stagecoach even if they're going down the old Moir Lockhead route of zero locality branding?
 

_toommm_

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I've looked at it from the perspective of one route, many destinations. That and the marketing push which would show that you'd be able to bus it from Matlock to Leeds/ Leeds to Matlock, might sound mad but if Transdev can do it with the 36 and Coastliner then it why not Stagecoach even if they're going down the old Moir Lockhead route of zero locality branding?

I really wouldn't want the X17 to go Matlock to Leeds, even only a few times a day. There was a few of us stuck in Matlock the other week because three X17s no-showed, including the last through service to Sheffield, so I had to fork out another £8 (more than my Stagecoach day ticket) to get back to Sheffield by train.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I've looked at it from the perspective of one route, many destinations. That and the marketing push which would show that you'd be able to bus it from Matlock to Leeds/ Leeds to Matlock, might sound mad but if Transdev can do it with the 36 and Coastliner then it why not Stagecoach even if they're going down the old Moir Lockhead route of zero locality branding?
The 36 and 843 are very longstanding routes and follow a natural route with clearly defined markets.

Don’t see that with the X10/X17 mash up and reliability would be difficult. Even the X17 doesn’t run Barnsley to Matlock but runs as two overlapping routes.
 

Ken H

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The 36 and 843 are very longstanding routes and follow a natural route with clearly defined markets.

Don’t see that with the X10/X17 mash up and reliability would be difficult. Even the X17 doesn’t run Barnsley to Matlock but runs as two overlapping routes.
And the 840. It used to be a United/West Yorkshire joint as a 91. We caught it from Leeds to Goathland for a weeks holiday there in the early 1970's
 

Deerfold

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I've looked at it from the perspective of one route, many destinations. That and the marketing push which would show that you'd be able to bus it from Matlock to Leeds/ Leeds to Matlock, might sound mad but if Transdev can do it with the 36 and Coastliner then it why not Stagecoach even if they're going down the old Moir Lockhead route of zero locality branding?

There's very few trips on the X17 go all the way from Matlock to Barnsley as it is - and the ones that do already take longer than the 36 does end to end. You'd be looking at a journey time of 3 1/2 hours, longer than even the 840.
 

SSmith2009

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Arriva Midlands X55 (Leicester to Hinckley via Burbage, Sapcote and Thurlaston) is showing as being cancelled from 1st October.


Registration numberPF0007085/217
Licence NumberPF0007085
Variation number5
StatusCancellation
Service number.X55, X55
Service typeNormal Stopping
Start pointLeicester
Finish pointHinckley
Via
Date received19 Aug 2022
Effective date01 Oct 2022
End date
Supported by subsidies?In Part
Local authorities covered by routeLeicestershire County Council
Leicester City Council
TAOs covered by routeEast of England
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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And the 840. It used to be a United/West Yorkshire joint as a 91. We caught it from Leeds to Goathland for a weeks holiday there in the early 1970's
Gone by 1977 and didn't return (except as a Summer Sunday Moorsbus and even then, only one journey to York) until early 1990s IIRC

There's very few trips on the X17 go all the way from Matlock to Barnsley as it is - and the ones that do already take longer than the 36 does end to end. You'd be looking at a journey time of 3 1/2 hours, longer than even the 840.
Exactly my point about reliability. You would struggle with a service of that length.
 

Ken H

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Gone by 1977 and didn't return (except as a Summer Sunday Moorsbus and even then, only one journey to York) until early 1990s IIRC


Exactly my point about reliability. You would struggle with a service of that length.
Coastliner (transdev) are running Leeds-Whitby several times a day.
 

Llandudno

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There's very few trips on the X17 go all the way from Matlock to Barnsley as it is - and the ones that do already take longer than the 36 does end to end. You'd be looking at a journey time of 3 1/2 hours, longer than even the 840.
It’s actually quicker if travelling from Matlock to get off at Chesterfield and catch the train to Sheffield (just) and certainly much quicker if travelling to Meadowhall, Barnsley and Leeds

The bus is cheaper though!
 

RT4038

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The 500 was being supported by S106 funding from the house building in the Brackley area - that funding has ended and evidently it hasn't generated sufficient use.
The service went from hourly to half hourly about 2002 without any s106 funding. I think it later started running every 20 min - possibly with the funding? The reduction to hourly will be to do with general reduction of passenger carryings probably plus staffing issues.
 

DunsBus

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Borders Buses service 253 between Edinburgh, Dunbar and Berwick had its Sunday service suspended at the first lockdown. It hasn't returned, so I think this can be classed as a withdrawal (though the Sunday service was very limited in any case, with only two journeys each way).
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Coastliner (transdev) are running Leeds-Whitby several times a day.
Yes, I know, but there was a large gap (1977 to early 1990s) when there wasn't. In that period, you'd have to change from the 743/843 at Malton, usually onto a United LH running the 92 to Whitby
The service went from hourly to half hourly about 2002 without any s106 funding. I think it later started running every 20 min - possibly with the funding? The reduction to hourly will be to do with general reduction of passenger carryings probably plus staffing issues.
Thanks for that @RT4038 - I recalled it was every 20 mins (was it from 2011 when they got some new e200s?). Seem to recall that Stagecoach also upped the Chipping Norton service (which was less than hourly before) and also the Oxford service.
 

RELL6L

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That makes some sense as I did think it surprising given the evening service. I wouldn't say it puts on a par with the 200 - that is only surviving as some funds have been found for it to continue whereas the 500 is probably self-sustaining.

Interesting to look back at the old Great British Bus Timetable (thanks to Timetable World) - the 1997 service was considerably worse!

View attachment 120202

View attachment 120203
To be fair bus services from Banbury are much better now than in times past. Sure the occasional and shoppers services one day a week have all gone but compared to the 1970s we have:
Banbury to Brackley - hourly - used to be irregular much like above
Banbury to Chipping Norton - hourly - used to be a handful of journeys a day
Banbury to Daventry - hourly - used to be nothing beyond the local villages and an occasional shoppers service to Woodford Halse
Banbury to Oxford - hourly - used to be about four journeys a day run by City of Oxford plus more regular journeys as far as Deddington by Midland Red
Banbury to Stratford - far more now than the 1970s (but so complicated now!)
Banbury to Leamington Spa - about 5 journeys now, almost nothing in the 1970s
Town services were better in the 1970s (apart from to the places that didn't exist then)
I think Banbury was a very neglected corner of the Midland Red empire.

City of Oxford introduced the X59 from Oxford through Banbury to Coventry, I can't remember how often it ran but it did run a journey out of Oxford around 9am which I recall being very well patronised (used a dual prupose VR in my day), but that seems to have vanished and there's nothing now from Banbury to Southam.

And the trains are better, especially the London Marylebone service.
 

Ken H

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It's a common fallacy that the services in the 50's and 60's offered frequent buses to many villages. Actually they didn't. Look at the timetables from back then. Many have headnotes denoting days of operation, many operated on market days only for instance.
Would an out and back service on market days only be used today? Probably not.
The big change is loss of frequency in urban areas, and that's been going on since the early 60's. And earlier late buses. Night services have gone too.
But Little Puddlewick has never had a frequent service.
 
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SSmith2009

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Arriva Midlands X55 (Leicester to Hinckley via Burbage, Sapcote and Thurlaston) is showing as being cancelled from 1st October.

A new FoxConnect on demand service already covers most parts of the X55 route: https://www.choosehowyoumove.co.uk/public-transport/fox-connect/

FoxConnect additionally serves Enderby P&R and Fosse Park which allows for connections into Leicester and LRI (Leicester Royal Infirmary) via Arriva 50/104 or P&R 203 services
 

M@verick

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Stagecoach East are ending a number of services from 30th October 2022 which includes operation of:

72/73 - Biggleswade-Sandy-Bedford. The origins of this service go back to London General who commenced a motor bus service in 1913. It ceased for the duration of WW1 but restarted with the 'National' after their acquisition of LGOC provincial services in 1921. Subsequently Eastern National and from May 1952 United Counties provided this services. For many years it was the 176 although it switched to 172 in the early 1990s. During 2006 it became the first of the 'Planet' routes M3 during this period before reverting to the 73.

I understand the local authority is looking for a replacement service but that Stagecoach will not be involved in operating it.

The link between Royston and Cambridge is also being curtailed at the same point.
 
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SSmith2009

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Arriva service 14 Leicester to New Parks is is due to be withdrawn from 22nd October although the service will be mostly covered by First Leicester service 14.

A number of other services are changing over the same weekend.


From bustimes.org

PF0007085/169​

14
FromLeicester
ToNew Parks
Via
TypeNormal Stopping
Supported by subsidy?No
AuthoritiesLeicestershire County Council
Leicester City Council

History​

#ReceivedEffective dateStatusDetailsPublication text
169 Sep 2222 Oct 22CancellationTimetable Variation
 

plebb11

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Stagecoach East are ending a number of services from 30th October 2022 which includes operation of:

72/73 - Biggleswade-Sandy-Bedford. The origins of this service go back to London General who commenced a motor bus service in 1913. It ceased for the duration of WW1 but restarted with the 'National' after their acquisition of LGOC provincial services in 1921. Subsequently Eastern National and from May 1952 United Counties provided this services. For many years it was the 176 although it switched to 172 in the early 1990s. During 2006 it became the first of the 'Planet' routes M3 during this period before reverting to the 73.
I would like hope Grant Palmer will picking up this work as they have just bought the old United Counties depot in Biggleswade.
 

xydancer

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City of Oxford introduced the X59 from Oxford through Banbury to Coventry, I can't remember how often it ran but it did run a journey out of Oxford around 9am which I recall being very well patronised (used a dual prupose VR in my day), but that seems to have vanished and there's nothing now from Banbury to Southam.
X59 was a City of Oxford and Midland Red joint route. Looking at my old timetables, it wasn't there in 1975 but was by 1981, when there were four through workings Mon-Sat and a couple of short ones.

There is still a service between Southam and Banbury, albeit a Saturday only shopping bus that starts/ends at Leamington (Stagecoach service 501).
 

M@verick

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I would like hope Grant Palmer will picking up this work as they have just bought the old United Counties depot in Biggleswade.
They would seem the most likely to look at the service as anything other than a tender to win and half heartedly run.

Although demand has undoubtedly changed in recent years, this route once upon a time was a hugely profitable corridor for United Counties.
 

Megafuss

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Stagecoach East are ending a number of services from 30th October 2022 which includes operation of:

72/73 - Biggleswade-Sandy-Bedford. The origins of this service go back to London General who commenced a motor bus service in 1913. It ceased for the duration of WW1 but restarted with the 'National' after their acquisition of LGOC provincial services in 1921. Subsequently Eastern National and from May 1952 United Counties provided this services. For many years it was the 176 although it switched to 172 in the early 1990s. During 2006 it became the first of the 'Planet' routes M3 during this period before reverting to the 73.

I understand the local authority is looking for a replacement service but that Stagecoach will not be involved in operating it.

The link between Royston and Cambridge is also being curtailed at the same point.
Stagecoach East might be one of the worst operating companies PERIOD. It seems to have been on an ever increasing spiral of chaos since Andy Campbell left. And that is saying something!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Stagecoach East might be one of the worst operating companies PERIOD. It seems to have been on an ever increasing spiral of chaos since Andy Campbell left. And that is saying something!
Given the issues with Stagecoach West and South West, that might be a tough accolade to win!

I had a trip out on East in July (albeit around Peterborough and Huntingdon) and wouldn't say it was chaotic. Certainly has declined though
 

Megafuss

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Given the issues with Stagecoach West and South West, that might be a tough accolade to win!

I had a trip out on East in July (albeit around Peterborough and Huntingdon) and wouldn't say it was chaotic. Certainly has declined though
3 MDs in 4 years tells the story. Not even Stagecoach South West can claim that! Ironically one of the West MDs was the ex Engineering Director at East.
 
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