Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[irish_rail]

Who cares whether they are more trains than trams, or vice versa, as long as they get into service soon and do their job?

I'd say people care. The walk through thing also for me is a big big negative. It just takes one rowdy group on the train and the entire train is going to know about it. At least in the current set up one can just move coaches. On this walk through nonsense there is no escape.
Also sad to see another operator go down the daft black front road. I thought there had been enough reports from drivers being dazzled by the sunlight reflecting on the black to put a stop to this cr*p. I've certainly experienced being dazzled by a crossrail unit whilst driving an IET at 125mph! Not pleasant !

 

[Lloyds siding]

I see them quite often. They look like trains to me (from where I'm standing...which is usually at the level crossing).

 

[stuu]

I'd say people care. The walk through thing also for me is a big big negative. It just takes one rowdy group on the train and the entire train is going to know about it. At least in the current set up one can just move coaches. On this walk through nonsense there is no escape.

What has that got to do with them being tram-like? Plenty of proper trains are fully walk through. Is this a real problem? Never known it be an issue on the Underground, although that's generally a noisier environment

 

[irish_rail]

What has that got to do with them being tram-like? Plenty of proper trains are fully walk through. Is this a real problem? Never known it be an issue on the Underground, although that's generally a noisier environment

The underground and the merseyrail network are quite different systems.
Id say its a real problem when you get a rowdy group causing trouble, likely to be upsetting, frightening for certain groups. No escape other than to have to leave the train.

 

[Thirteen]

Seems like a weird complaint about the 777s being walk through when pretty much most new stocks that has been built and gone into service in the last few years are walk through. Seems like complaining for the sake of complaining.

 

[AlexNL]

Trains with full walk through designs have been in the service on the continent for decades (e.g. S-Bahn units all over Germany). And closer to the UK, see the London Overground class 378s or Thameslink 700s. If these designs would've really been as much of a problem when it comes to antisocial behaviour as you imagine them to be, the design idea would've been phased out already and the 378s/700s would've been of the classic "door at each carriage end" design.

That obviously hasn't happened and I'm not aware of any reports about this design being of particularly more concern than conventional stock.

On the contrary, I've heard it mentioned before that (especially female) passenger feel safer on the fully walk through design as they feel that someone with ill intentions can have less chance, as a cry for help will be heard by more people.

 

[irish_rail]

On the contrary, I've heard it mentioned before that (especially female) passenger feel safer on the fully walk through design as they feel that someone with ill intentions can have less chance, as a cry for help will be heard by more people.

This kind of thing is thankfully incredibly rare. P*ssed up groups of lads at weekends , and troublemaking groups of youths are rather more common in Merseyside.

 

[urbophile]

The underground and the merseyrail network are quite different systems.

The (London) Underground is a lot more complex system, I agree. But I defy you to find any point of real difference between the Metropolitan Line and Merseyrail.

 

[Liverpool 507]

This kind of thing is thankfully incredibly rare. P*ssed up groups of lads at weekends , and troublemaking groups of youths are rather more common in Merseyside.

Common everywhere now. Not fair for it just to be aimed at Merseyside. Besides, there is a reasonably sized team of Byelaw Enforcement officers that regularly patrol the network.

On a separate note, 777040 has been given a /1 (777140) subclass and is the first fully completed IPEMU unit. Cannot find the link from LinkedIn.

 

[XAM2175]

Trains with full walk through designs have been in the service on the continent for decades (e.g. S-Bahn units all over Germany). And closer to the UK, see the London Overground class 378s or Thameslink 700s.

Yes, it's hardly new. I even remember it on Siemens units delivered to Melbourne in 2002.

On the contrary, I've heard it mentioned before that (especially female) passenger feel safer on the fully walk through design as they feel that someone with ill intentions can have less chance, as a cry for help will be heard by more people.

Bingo. It increases the potential exposure to nuisance behaviour, which is of course regrettable, but that's balanced by the improved perception of safety that many people derive from the feeling that the greater visibility is a deterrent to genuinely threatening behaviour.

However, whilst an much more open environment might result in moderating behviour - if things get really out of hand rather than it being confined to one car it could potentially involve the whole train.

Anything that gets "really out of hand" is already capable of involving the whole train, unless you're advocating the locking of the doors between cars?

 

[Thirteen]

The 777s have CCTV displays which is meant to be a deterrent for antisocial behaviour but you're never going to get rid of it entirely.

I suspect anyone who thinks walk through carriages are a bad idea probably thinks they should bring back slam doors as well.

 

[baldyman26]

I've read alot of comments on here that are utterly wrong. Merseyrail do not own the 777s, they also don't own the current trains so decisions to withdraw them are not entirely theirs.. Merseytravel/local combined authority are the owners of the new trains so the design and livery is pretty much down to them..

 

[Bletchleyite]

The (London) Underground is a lot more complex system, I agree. But I defy you to find any point of real difference between the Metropolitan Line and Merseyrail.

Probably only one thing - higher loadings on the Met hence the layout designed for more standees.

 

[MattRat]

Probably only one thing - higher loadings on the Met hence the layout designed for more standees.

I presume the trains will be retrofitted at some point if they insist on cramming as many people as possible into 4 car trains....

 

[507020]

777040 has been given a /1 (777140) subclass and is the first fully completed IPEMU unit. Cannot find the link from LinkedIn.

What difference would a 777/1 unit have? 777049 is the first completed IPEMU unit and is at Kirkdale and only the last 7 units (047-053) were initially to be battery fitted, but it has been announced that the entire fleet will now be, rendering a subclass for IPEMUs pointless.

Yes, it's hardly new. I even remember it on Siemens units delivered to Melbourne in 2002.

The last Lisbon Metro units delivered in 1999 are fully walk through and it won’t have been groundbreaking then.

I presume the trains will be retrofitted at some point if they insist on cramming as many people as possible into 4 car trains....

Why not just order units and run more 8 car trains when we get to that point? There is already depot capacity for more than 53 units.

 

[MR-507508]

A recent post of a Class 777 battery unit (777140), with the slogan 'Batteries On-Board' painted on the bodywork.
I didn't realise the battery units where being numbered as 7771XX. How many units are due to have batteries fitted?

https://twitter.com/FlywheelMedia1/status/1571903841142177798

 

[Skie]

All of them will have batteries fitted. It was originally going to be a smaller number, but they performed so well Merseytravel decided to do the entire fleet. Plus it makes maintenance and network expansion much easier when the entire fleet is homogeneous.

 

[MR-507508]

All of them will have batteries fitted. It was originally going to be a smaller number, but they performed so well Merseytravel decided to do the entire fleet. Plus it makes maintenance and network expansion much easier when the entire fleet is homogeneous.

How come the unit I posted above is numbered 777140. I thought maybe the 1 was to distinguish the battery units from the ones without batteries?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How come the unit I posted above is numbered 777140. I thought maybe the 1 was to distinguish the battery units from the ones without batteries?

It is, so presumably all will be in the /1 range.

 

[507020]

It is, so presumably all will be in the /1 range.

But the other ones are already numbered in the /0 range, including 777049 and what happens if another 47 units are ordered and one needs to be 777100?

 

[Skie]

As far as I know, they’ll all become /1 as they get batteries. Hopefully once all are done they go back to /0 just so we can keep 777 007

 

[D821]

All units have batteries for moving around depots and sidings without a 3rd rail, when did they say all units were getting a full battery set?

 

[gka472l]

As far as I know, they’ll all become /1 as they get batteries. Hopefully once all are done they go back to /0 just so we can keep 777 007

I note from one of the pics that one of the car numbers in that 777140 is numbered 94 70 0429140 1 (rather than 429040)

 

[Skie]

All units have batteries for moving around depots and sidings without a 3rd rail, when did they say all units were getting a full battery set?

They got the funding for it as part of the City Region Sustainable Transport Settlement.

 

[MattRat]

A recent post of a Class 777 battery unit (777140), with the slogan 'Batteries On-Board' painted on the bodywork.

That slogan doesn't fill me with hope about the batteries. Will they leak? Or maybe they'll have tantrums and randomly stop functioning.

 

[Liverpool 507]

A recent post of a Class 777 battery unit (777140), with the slogan 'Batteries On-Board' painted on the bodywork.
I didn't realise the battery units where being numbered as 7771XX. How many units are due to have batteries fitted?

https://twitter.com/FlywheelMedia1/status/1571903841142177798

Thank you for posting. I couldn't find the original LinkedIn link for my post.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

All of them will have batteries fitted. It was originally going to be a smaller number, but they performed so well Merseytravel decided to do the entire fleet. Plus it makes maintenance and network expansion much easier when the entire fleet is homogeneous.

Merseytravel are to be congratulated for having such vision but how long will they be karting around the extra weight of the batteries with all the additional energy costs before they have any other destinations needing battery power other than Headbolt Lane

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseytravel are to be congratulated for having such vision but how long will they be karting around the extra weight of the batteries with all the additional energy costs before they have any other destinations needing battery power other than Headbolt Lane

The weight is offset by the ability to use regen for all braking rather than only if another unit is in section and accelerating. That, not expansion, is the main reason.

 

[Skie]

The weight is offset by the ability to use regen for all braking rather than only if another unit is in section and accelerating. That, not expansion, is the main reason.

Thanks, saves me having to explain it all again. The battery units should be cheaper to run due to reduced power usage thanks to their ability to regen everywhere, which is part of the reason the sustainable transport fund was used to help purchase them.

As for further expansions, who knows when? Some of them could be done with just route learning and a few new units, whilst others would need infrastructure changes for charging.. They do have a wishlist that includes Wrexham, Crewe, Widnes and Preston.

 

[AndrewE]

Thanks, saves me having to explain it all again. The battery units should be cheaper to run due to reduced power usage thanks to their ability to regen everywhere, which is part of the reason the sustainable transport fund was used to help purchase them.

As for further expansions, who knows when? Some of them could be done with just route learning and a few new units, whilst others would need infrastructure changes for charging.. They do have a wishlist that includes Wrexham, Crewe, Widnes and Preston.

Is Helsby a given then?