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TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

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RailUK Forums

Bob Price

Bob Price

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Guess it's an enclosed track where they can be tested. It will be a while until they come over to South Wales, the depot is coming along but still a lot of work to do.
 
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CardiffKid

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I wasn’t sure which thread to post this in as it involves several classes.

There is a chance to see a mock up of the Class 231, 398 and 756 trains in Taffs Well at the end of the month. (£5 for non CILT members, subject to availability)


Visit to Transport for Wales New Train Mock-Ups
29/09/2022 16:00:00 - 29/09/2022 17:30:00
When: 29 September 2022 16:00 - 17:30
Where: Amey Taff’s Well Rail Depot, Moy Road Industrial Estate, Taff’s Well, Rhondda Cynon Taf, CF15 7QR
Speaker: Jamie Warner

We are pleased to be able to offer CILT members the opportunity to visit the Transport for Wales mock ups of the new trains that will be introduced across Wales over the next few years. The mock ups show what new trains will look like, including the passenger facilities that will be available. The mock ups include:

• Class 231 and 756 Stadler Flirt, to be used for South East Wales Metro services, and which are already on test within the region
• Class 398 tram-train, which will be the main fleet for Core Valley Lines services from Merthyr, Aberdare and Treherbert to Cardiff.

The visit will provide the chance to learn more about these trains and also see what the passenger experience will be like.

The mock-ups are fully accessible and joining instructions will be provided nearer the time. Please note that spaces are limited on the visit and you are encouraged to book as soon as possible to ensure you have a place.

Booking for Members - FREE
Click 'Book now' online to book, if you have any difficulties email us at regions@ciltuk.org.uk quoting event code: WR0400

Booking for Non-Members - £5.00 inc. VAT
Email regions@ciltuk.org.uk with a completed booking form
Click to expand...
 
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ivzem

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Stadler's published a datasheet (PDF) for the units. unsure how much of the information in there is actually new, but it makes for a good overview of their dimensions, capabilities and interior layout.
 
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800001

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ivzem said:
Stadler's published a datasheet (PDF) for the units. unsure how much of the information in there is actually new, but it makes for a good overview of their dimensions, capabilities and interior layout.
Click to expand...
Do you have the link to said PDF?
 
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RobShipway

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800001 said:
Do you have the link to said PDF?
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If you click on where it says 'a datasheet' you should have the link https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/cttwb0922e.pdf

In January 2019, Stadler was awarded the contract to manufacture and supply 36 CITYLINK tram-trains and 35 FLIRT trains. The
three-car tram-trains will operate on 25 kV AC lines and use battery power, with traction battery systems helping avoid costly
infrastructure investments for the client. Adapted to suit the tram and rail network serving the South Wales Metro, these light
rail vehicles can travel on both rail tracks and tram lines and have a driver’s cab at each end. On the rail network, they can run at
100km/h. Forty metres long and able to carry 252 passengers, the high-floor vehicles feature spacious, bright and air-conditioned
passenger compartments, with six multifunctional areas for bicycles, seats for people with reduced mobility, and two wheelchair
passenger spaces. CITYLINK is a modular, barrier-free light rail vehicle family specially designed to connect the city centre with
its outlying areas. Safe and highly comfortable, these tram-trains promote seamless travel for passengers and mean that they do
not have to change modes.
Click to expand...
 
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tomuk

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About the same seating capacity as a 150 but no accessible toilet. 915mm entrance height so any street running sections will require the building of expensive platform structures.
 
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Dai Corner

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tomuk said:
About the same seating capacity as a 150 but no accessible toilet. 915mm entrance height so any street running sections will require the building of expensive platform structures.
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More standing capacity though, and no need to lower the existing platforms.
 
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javelin

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tomuk said:
About the same seating capacity as a 150 but no accessible toilet. 915mm entrance height so any street running sections will require the building of expensive platform structures.
Click to expand...

As all the present stations are at conventional rail height it is a lot cheaper to potentially build a handful of high platforms in the bay area (none are currently planned) than to convert all the existing platforms to low floor.
 
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craigybagel

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Dai Corner said:
More standing capacity though, and no need to lower the existing platforms.
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And most important of all, a lot quicker than the 150s on the Valleys Network. Much better for the environment too. And whilst that could have been achieved with a conventional EMU, this future proofs the ability to expand the network using cheaper light rail standards.
 
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tomuk

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craigybagel said:
And most important of all, a lot quicker than the 150s on the Valleys Network. Much better for the environment too. And whilst that could have been achieved with a conventional EMU, this future proofs the ability to expand the network using cheaper light rail standards.
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But it doesn't future proof it you need to build expensive 'stations' on the light rail areas and by retaining guards and drivers you aren't obtaining the savings now.
 
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craigybagel

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tomuk said:
But it doesn't future proof it you need to build expensive 'stations' on the light rail areas and by retaining guards and drivers you aren't obtaining the savings now.
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I'm confused as to what keeping the guards onboard has anything to do with it? If they'd gone for a heavy rail EMU solution they'd be just as likely to have kept guards on. Unless you want them to go for a low floor pure light rail solution - but then you lose the ability to run between Cardiff Central and Queen Street, and to share the network with freight.

Given the largest light rail network in the country uses high platforms it doesn't seem to have been much of a barrier towards expansion there.
 
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tomuk

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craigybagel said:
I'm confused as to what keeping the guards onboard has anything to do with it? If they'd gone for a heavy rail EMU solution they'd be just as likely to have kept guards on. Unless you want them to go for a low floor pure light rail solution - but then you lose the ability to run between Cardiff Central and Queen Street, and to share the network with freight.

Given the largest light rail network in the country uses high platforms it doesn't seem to have been much of a barrier towards expansion there.
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Your are right to be confused because the reasoning by WG/TFW for getting them is confused. Trams are meant to be cheaper but they aren't cheaper if you operate them as heavy rail EMUs. Equally in the future expansion you have compromised yourself because of the constraints, high floor, 25kv electrification of the heavy rail compatible trams.

As regards Manchester some of these issues are already playing out where the capacity on some branches is constrained by the on street running in the centre.
 
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Dai Corner

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tomuk said:
Your are right to be confused because the reasoning by WG/TFW for getting them is confused. Trams are meant to be cheaper but they aren't cheaper if you operate them as heavy rail EMUs. Equally in the future expansion you have compromised yourself because of the constraints, high floor, 25kv electrification of the heavy rail compatible trams.

As regards Manchester some of these issues are already playing out where the capacity on some branches is constrained by the on street running in the centre.
Click to expand...
From the Welsh Government's perspective providing jobs is at least as important as providing services for passengers.
 
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craigybagel

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tomuk said:
Your are right to be confused because the reasoning by WG/TFW for getting them is confused. Trams are meant to be cheaper but they aren't cheaper if you operate them as heavy rail EMUs. Equally in the future expansion you have compromised yourself because of the constraints, high floor, 25kv electrification of the heavy rail compatible trams.
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I don't recall it ever being suggested officially that they bought tram trains for cheapness - but purely to allow street running in future. But maybe I missed something there?

I see no reason why these a bad option for street running. They are already capable of battery running, and given the similar Sheffield units are capable of running both on 750v DC and 2.5kv AC I see no reason for these not to be also? The AC capability is a requirement for running into Cardiff Central.

I also don't see why you're so obsessed with the platform heights - yes it'll cost a bit more to build the platforms on any extensions, but surely that's cheaper than converting all of the existing stations to low platforms?
 
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yorkie

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Just a reminder that any posts of a speculative nature belong in Speculative Discussion please.

Some posts have been moved to the following thread:

TfW should not be getting tram trains

Moderator note: Split from https://railforums.co.uk/threads/tfw-class-398-stadler-citylink-tram-trains.229459 I also don't see why you're so obsessed with the platform heights - yes it'll cost a bit more to build the platforms on any extensions, but surely that's cheaper than converting all of...
railforums.co.uk
 
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Bletchleyite

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javelin said:
As all the present stations are at conventional rail height it is a lot cheaper to potentially build a handful of high platforms in the bay area (none are currently planned) than to convert all the existing platforms to low floor.
Click to expand...

Though I suspect Manchester regrets that decision with all the extensions. I guess it depends on future plans.
 
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