Help! Caught using 16-25 railcard when expired

[silversurfer]

I applied a 16-25 railcard to a train ticket when mine expired years ago, wrongly. Been asked to send a picture of a valid one within 14 days to the Thames link website (or else). Only gave the inspector my name and address.

I did just try and purchase a new railcard but I’m 2 month too old. Is the following message okay to use to get out of it?

“Hi there, I was unable to show my railcard upon being asked at Blackfriars station. Not only have I lost it and thought it was still in date, but upon going to purchase a new one, I now realise I am too told to purchase one! 2 months too old! I sincerely apologise for this error and am happy to pay the difference.”

Please help me advising if this is the correct thing to do?

 

[AlterEgo]

You won’t be able to “get out of it” unfortunately, if no valid railcard was held and you were not entitled to the discount.
Thameslink will likely ask you to settle for the outstanding fare plus their costs of something in the region of £100.

 

[swt_passenger]

This is fairly academic now, but when they wrote and asked you to send them a copy of a “valid railcard” they meant a railcard that was actually valid at the time you travelled. You can’t buy a new one backdated anyway, so even if you were the right age getting a new one wouldn’t have ever solved your problem. It could only have assisted in demonstrating your intention not to do it again.

 

[skyhigh]

Is the following message okay to use to get out of it?

“Hi there, I was unable to show my railcard upon being asked at Blackfriars station. Not only have I lost it and thought it was still in date, but upon going to purchase a new one, I now realise I am too told to purchase one! 2 months too old! I sincerely apologise for this error and am happy to pay the difference.”

To which they'll say something along the lines of "hard luck, your responsibility to check before you travel". You are at best being deceptive in your wording by making it sound like you lost a valid railcard and can't find it, rather than saying you never had a valid railcard. At the very least, expect to pay the fare due plus a fee to cover their costs but they may look to take it further.

If you bought the ticket via an app such as Trainline, they will also be able to check your purchase history and find out if this is a one-off or repeated pattern, so bear that in mind as it may affect the path they choose to take.

 

[WesternLancer]

I applied a 16-25 railcard to a train ticket when mine expired years ago, wrongly. Been asked to send a picture of a valid one within 14 days to the Thames link website (or else). Only gave the inspector my name and address.

I did just try and purchase a new railcard but I’m 2 month too old. Is the following message okay to use to get out of it?

“Hi there, I was unable to show my railcard upon being asked at Blackfriars station. Not only have I lost it and thought it was still in date, but upon going to purchase a new one, I now realise I am too told to purchase one! 2 months too old! I sincerely apologise for this error and am happy to pay the difference.”

Please help me advising if this is the correct thing to do?

You need to wait to hear from them by letter, then rtn here for advice on the best wording to use by way of an apology and an offer to settle the matter with them. Your draft above may be a starter for 10 but you will need to work on it a bit to make it both fully honest as well as suitably apologetic.

But wait for their letter then head back here - where you will get good advice on your reply.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

You need to wait to hear from them by letter

On the above point, the OP seems already to have had some sort of contact from the railway:

Been asked to send a picture of a valid one within 14 days to the Thames link website (or else).

So it’s important to reply to this as experience has shown us that it’s only by keeping in touch with the railway that problems like this can be sorted out.

Your suggested response is on the right lines but you need to make it clear that you are taking the matter seriously (so use less exclamation marks) and that you know it’s your fault for not having made sure that you had a valid railcard (so no grumbling about you now being too old to buy a railcard). You also need to realise that you will have to pay the cost of the railway’s investigation as well as the fare that you didn’t pay, so it would make sense to say that as well in your response.

 

[gray1404]

You can however purchase a 26 to 30 Railcard future travel.

You probably knew it had expired and got used to not being asked to produce it.

 

[silversurfer]

This is fairly academic now, but when they wrote and asked you to send them a copy of a “valid railcard” they meant a railcard that was actually valid at the time you travelled. You can’t buy a new one backdated anyway, so even if you were the right age getting a new one wouldn’t have ever solved your problem. It could only have assisted in demonstrating your intention not to do it again.

thanks for that. What do you suggest I do? Shall I just ignore it or reply apologising?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

You need to wait to hear from them by letter, then rtn here for advice on the best wording to use by way of an apology and an offer to settle the matter with them. Your draft above may be a starter for 10 but you will need to work on it a bit to make it both fully honest as well as suitably apologetic.

But wait for their letter then head back here - where you will get good advice on your reply.

Thank you very much for this. So your advice is to not submit a comment on the link they gave and to wait to receive a letter from them?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

On the above point, the OP seems already to have had some sort of contact from the railway:

So it’s important to reply to this as experience has shown us that it’s only by keeping in touch with the railway that problems like this can be sorted out.

Your suggested response is on the right lines but you need to make it clear that you are taking the matter seriously (so use less exclamation marks) and that you know it’s your fault for not having made sure that you had a valid railcard (so no grumbling about you now being too old to buy a railcard). You also need to realise that you will have to pay the cost of the railway’s investigation as well as the fare that you didn’t pay, so it would make sense to say that as well in your response.

Thanks for your comment. I was only issued the long orange ticket which had a link to a website where I need to submit proof of my railcard. In the comment section on the website, should I put the comment along with the tweaks you are suggesting or wait to hear from them after the 14 day deadline? I’m in two minds of either replying on the link providing or just ignoring it and hoping for the best. Times are tough at the moment financially

 

[spag23]

On the above point, the OP seems already to have had some sort of contact from the railway:

So it’s important to reply to this as experience has shown us that it’s only by keeping in touch with the railway that problems like this can be sorted out.

Your suggested response is on the right lines but you need to make it clear that you are taking the matter seriously (so use less exclamation marks) and that you know it’s your fault for not having made sure that you had a valid railcard (so no grumbling about you now being too old to buy a railcard). You also need to realise that you will have to pay the cost of the railway’s investigation as well as the fare that you didn’t pay, so it would make sense to say that as well in your response.

The "Hi there" at the beginning of the draft apology comes over as making light of the issue. A more formal "Dear Sir/Madam" would perhaps set a better tone.

 

[silversurfer]

The "Hi there" at the beginning of the draft apology comes over as making light of the issue. A more formal "Dear Sir/Madam" would perhaps set a better tone.

Noted, thank you!

 

[swt_passenger]

thanks for that. What do you suggest I do? Shall I just ignore it or reply apologising?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

I think the website link they’ve given will only help for a genuinely forgotten but valid railcard. I’m not familiar with whether it can also be used to admit you didn’t have one.

Is there anyone here who’s seen the web link?

It may be that after the 14 day deadline they will send a letter immediately anyway, but you must not ignore that letter or you’ll almost certainly be taken to court.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thanks for your comment. I was only issued the long orange ticket which had a link to a website where I need to submit proof of my railcard. In the comment section on the website, should I put the comment along with the tweaks you are suggesting or wait to hear from them after the 14 day deadline? I’m in two minds of either replying on the link providing or just ignoring it and hoping for the best.

If you could show us a picture of what you've been given (n.b. hide your name and address so that no-one can identify you!) we might be able to give some better advice on what we think you should do next.

 

[silversurfer]

If you could show us a picture of what you've been given (n.b. hide your name and address so that no-one can identify you!) we might be able to give some better advice on what we think you should do next.

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it. Here is the website link which is underlined on the attached photo: https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/h...roblems/railcard-and-season-ticket-submission

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

I think the website link they’ve given will only help for a genuinely forgotten but valid railcard. I’m not familiar with whether it can also be used to admit you didn’t have one.

Is there anyone here who’s seen the web link?

It may be that after the 14 day deadline they will send a letter immediately anyway, but you must not ignore that letter or you’ll almost certainly be taken to court.

This is the weblink: https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/h...roblems/railcard-and-season-ticket-submission

 

[swt_passenger]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it. Here is the website link which is underlined on the attached photo: https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/h...roblems/railcard-and-season-ticket-submission

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==


This is the weblink: https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/h...roblems/railcard-and-season-ticket-submission

Then this line already makes it quite clear it does not apply in your case:
“Please note that when submitting a copy of a Railcard or Ticket it needs to have been purchased & collected before you were spoken to by one of our Revenue Protection Team.”

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you very much for this. So your advice is to not submit a comment on the link they gave and to wait to receive a letter from them?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

Apols - I i'd not appreciate you had been asked for a response. Of course do engage with that and submit it, but it may be that will not work as you had not got a valid (but forgotten railcard). Follow advise of others on here on content of what you say - it may be that so you can not be seen to not be engaging, you could complete the online with a simple message that says that you subsequently discovered the railcard had expired, and that you now realise you will have to take other steps to correct your error and please could they write to you to let you know what you can do to resolve the matter without further difficulties.
Just keep it polite, formal and factual.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I wonder if purchasing a 26-30 railcard would assist you here, in allowing you to respond presenting the matter as an oversight in failing to renew your railcard (which you understand is your responsibility) rather than a deliberate attempt to defraud.

 

[skyhigh]

I wonder if purchasing a 26-30 railcard would assist you here, in allowing you to respond presenting the matter as an oversight in failing to renew your railcard (which you understand is your responsibility) rather than a deliberate attempt to defraud.

Depends. But:

I applied a 16-25 railcard to a train ticket when mine expired years ago

If the old railcard expired years ago, that's not really a good excuse.

 

[Hadders]

I would write a short, concise letter explaining the position and upload to the website in lieu of the railcard. My view is that it is better to be proactive rather than do nothing and wait for them to send a letter asking for your version of events. You might want to mention the following in the letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

I suspect this is likely to cost you around £100 plus the outstanding fare. Be aware that if you don't engage with them they are likely to send the case to the Magistrates Court.

 

[SussexSeagull]

I got asked to show my Network Card on a Thameslink train about a month ago and again going through the barriers at Worthing last weekend (I had a valid one in both instances). Off the top of my head I can't recall being asked in the 20 years before that.

Looks like they might be having a clampdown.

 

[silversurfer]

I would write a short, concise letter explaining the position and upload to the website in lieu of the railcard. My view is that it is better to be proactive rather than do nothing and wait for them to send a letter asking for your version of events. You might want to mention the following in the letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

I suspect this is likely to cost you around £100 plus the outstanding fare. Be aware that if you don't engage with them they are likely to send the case to the Magistrates Court.

Thank you very much for this, very helpful. I will definitely incorporate your comments! I think I will also mention that I did offer to the ticket man that I would happily pay the £20 fine, but he said I must go down this route..

 

[Hadders]

GTR are normally one of the more reasonable companies when it comes to dealing with issues such as this. Don't be surprised if they still send you a letter asking for your version of events.

 

[WesternLancer]

I got asked to show my Network Card on a Thameslink train about a month ago and again going through the barriers at Worthing last weekend (I had a valid one in both instances). Off the top of my head I can't recall being asked in the 20 years before that.

Looks like they might be having a clampdown.

Interestingly most of not every time I have tried to exit the barriers at Southampton Central (about twice year over last 5 years or so, so regularly but not frequently) the gates have flagged 'seek assistance' and I have been asked to show Railcard at gateline by staff. Of course different TOCs may take different approaches.

 

[silversurfer]

For those wondering, I just submitted my response. For the image, I attached a screenshot of the following statement:

Dear Sir/Madam, I was unable to show my railcard upon being asked at Blackfriars station. After coming home and finding my railcard, I’ve discovered it’s out of date. I sincerely apologise for this error and am happy to pay the difference. Please let me know what I can do to resolve the matter. Thank you and sincere apologies, once again.

Fingers crossed about the outcome!

 

[WesternLancer]

For those wondering, I just submitted my response. For the image, I attached a screenshot of the following statement:

Dear Sir/Madam, I was unable to show my railcard upon being asked at Blackfriars station. After coming home and finding my railcard, I’ve discovered it’s out of date. I sincerely apologise for this error and am happy to pay the difference. Please let me know what I can do to resolve the matter. Thank you and sincere apologies, once again.

Fingers crossed about the outcome!

short, factual and to the point with a clear 'ask' of them - lets hope it works out OK. Good luck.

 

[silversurfer]

Hi all, I’ve received the following letter in the post. No warning, nor fine to pay just an “intent to take me to court” and a request to explain what happened…I feel as though the form I filled out online must’ve gone through a yes/no process as to whether I provided a valid railcard. In my instance, I didn’t. Any suggestions on wording? Thanks

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Although the letter starts 'notice of intention to prosecute ' if you read it closely you'll see that they haven't yet decided to prosecute you - it's just that they might. There's still a chance that the railway will offer an 'out of court settlement' instead of taking you to court


So you now have the chance to explain again why you realise that you were wrong, that you won't do it again, and what steps you are taking to make sure that you won't do it again. Have a look at what @Hadders wrote in post #18 above as that gives a good idea of the points you will want to cover.

 

[silversurfer]

Although the letter starts 'notice of intention to prosecute ' if you read it closely you'll see that they haven't yet decided to prosecute you - it's just that they might. There's still a chance that the railway will offer an 'out of court settlement' instead of taking you to court


So you now have the chance to explain again why you realise that you were wrong, that you won't do it again, and what steps you are taking to make sure that you won't do it again. Have a look at what @Hadders wrote in post #18 above as that gives a good idea of the points you will want to cover.

I can’t thank you enough for this encouraging reply, it’s relieved some very much unwanted anxiety. I will go by what you’ve said and await any pieces of advice. Thanks!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

OP, was the ticket with the Railcard Discount (to which you were not entitled) purchased online? If so, won't GTR/Thameslink want to look at past ticket purchases and satisfy themselves that you haven't purchased other railcard-discounted tickets since the date your Railcard expired?

 

[silversurfer]

OP, was the ticket with the Railcard Discount (to which you were not entitled) purchased online? If so, won't GTR/Thameslink want to look at past ticket purchases and satisfy themselves that you haven't purchased other railcard-discounted tickets since the date your Railcard expired?

It wasn’t purchased online, was purchased at Blackfriars ticket machine