Ticket routed *via XXX* - mandatory route or permitted option?

[travelred]

Hi all

Looking to head down from Manchester to London in a few weeks to take in a Saturday matinee, then onwards to Reading overnight.

If I were to buy an off-peak return from Manchester to Reading via London, and break my journey on the outbound, would this be a *mandatory* routing on the return also, or is the "via London" just opening up that (more expensive) option as a route choice?

So would I be able to return direct on a XC service from Reading to Manchester the following day?


I've had a similar thought on Manchester to Edinburgh in the past - is the more expensive "via York" ticket mandatory to travel both ways via York, or is the (cheaper) route via Carlisle still an option with that ticket depending on service times etc?

Thanks!

 

[ainsworth74]

You could purchase the "Not Via London" ticket and then get a ticket office to excess the outward portion to "Via London". Will be cheaper overall. Price should be half the difference between the two fares.

 

[Watershed]

Hi all

Looking to head down from Manchester to London in a few weeks to take in a Saturday matinee, then onwards to Reading overnight.

If I were to buy an off-peak return from Manchester to Reading via London, and break my journey on the outbound, would this be a *mandatory* routing on the return also, or is the "via London" just opening up that (more expensive) option as a route choice?

So would I be able to return direct on a XC service from Reading to Manchester the following day?


I've had a similar thought on Manchester to Edinburgh in the past - is the more expensive "via York" ticket mandatory to travel both ways via York, or is the (cheaper) route via Carlisle still an option with that ticket depending on service times etc?

Thanks!

If there is a cheaper fare with another route, you are entitled to travel on that alternative route without paying anything extra - this is because the NRCoT sets out the 'consequences' for travelling on a route not permitted by your ticket - namely that you must pay the difference to the cheapest valid fare for the route you've travelled. If that difference is negative then there is nothing to pay and so it's de facto valid.

In practice, this means that you will generally be better off buying the cheaper fare and then obtaining a change of route excess for the leg of your journey where you take the more expensive route.

In this particular instance, one of the permitted routes between Manchester and London is to travel via Reading. Therefore, if you are prepared to stick to XC for the way back, you would be better off buying a Manchester to London return and using the return portion via Reading. This would cost less than buying a 'not via London' return to Reading and obtaining a change of route excess for the outward portion - even once you account for the value of the cross-London transfer you would have included for free with the +via London portion.

 

[travelred]

You could purchase the "Not Via London" ticket and then get a ticket office to excess the outward portion to "Via London". Will be cheaper overall. Price should be half the difference between the two fares.

Thanks!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2022 ==

If there is a cheaper fare with another route, you are entitled to travel on that alternative route without paying anything extra - this is because the NRCoT sets out the 'consequences' for travelling on a route not permitted by your ticket - namely that you must pay the difference to the cheapest valid fare for the route you've travelled. If that difference is negative then there is nothing to pay and so it's de facto valid.

In practice, this means that you will generally be better off buying the cheaper fare and then obtaining a change of route excess for the leg of your journey where you take the more expensive route.

In this particular instance, one of the permitted routes between Manchester and London is to travel via Reading. Therefore, if you are prepared to stick to XC for the way back, you would be better off buying a Manchester to London return and using the return portion via Reading. This would cost less than buying a 'not via London' return to Reading and obtaining a change of route excess for the outward portion - even once you account for the value of the cross-London transfer you would have included for free with the +via London portion.

Thanks!

 

[superalbs]

If there is a cheaper fare with another route, you are entitled to travel on that alternative route without paying anything extra - this is because the NRCoT sets out the 'consequences' for travelling on a route not permitted by your ticket - namely that you must pay the difference to the cheapest valid fare for the route you've travelled. If that difference is negative then there is nothing to pay and so it's de facto valid.

In practice, this means that you will generally be better off buying the cheaper fare and then obtaining a change of route excess for the leg of your journey where you take the more expensive route.

In this particular instance, one of the permitted routes between Manchester and London is to travel via Reading. Therefore, if you are prepared to stick to XC for the way back, you would be better off buying a Manchester to London return and using the return portion via Reading. This would cost less than buying a 'not via London' return to Reading and obtaining a change of route excess for the outward portion - even once you account for the value of the cross-London transfer you would have included for free with the +via London portion.

Do excesses take into account peak/railcard restrictions?

 

[ainsworth74]

Do excesses take into account peak/railcard restrictions?

Yes. If you have a railcard then it would be taken into account when calculating any excess. Similarly the ticket that is excessed into should be the cheapest that was available for immediate travel that meets the requirements of the change of route. Generally speaking.

 

[superalbs]

Yes. If you have a railcard then it would be taken into account when calculating any excess. Similarly the ticket that is excessed into should be the cheapest that was available for immediate travel that meets the requirements of the change of route. Generally speaking.

So if you had an anytime on route A, and an anytime on route B was more expensive. You could just excess to an off-peak on B, if valid at that time?

And what if route A and route B off-peak had different time restrictions, so your ticket wouldn't be valid for that time on route A, but would on route B? Still excess to it, or anytime.

What if it was before 10am on a 16-25 for example. Would the minimum fare apply still? How would that affect things?

I'm so confused, though admittedly exhausted.

 

[Watershed]

So if you had an anytime on route A, and an anytime on route B was more expensive. You could just excess to an off-peak on B, if valid at that time?

Yes. For instance, if you held an Anytime Return from London Terminals to Leamington Spa, route via Banbury, and wanted to travel via the WCML on a Friday, you could excess it to an Off-Peak Return, route Any Permitted (as there are no longer any peak restrictions on Fridays for Avanti-set Off-Peak tickets out of Euston).

In this particular example there would be nothing to pay as the latter ticket is actually cheaper, and so there would be no need to obtain the excess.

And what if route A and route B off-peak had different time restrictions, so your ticket wouldn't be valid for that time on route A, but would on route B? Still excess to it, or anytime.

Excesses are always calculated with reference to the cheapest valid walk-up fare, so if there's an Off-Peak fare on route B which is valid - then that's what you would excess to.

You aren't "locked" to an Anytime or Off-Peak fare for change of route excesses. The only limitation is that you can't excess from a TOC restriction.

What if it was before 10am on a 16-25 for example. Would the minimum fare apply still? How would that affect things?

The minimum fare applies regardless of excesses or ticket types so doesn't really change anything. Is there an example you had in mind for this?

 

[Haywain]

there would be no need to obtain the excess.

Other than to ensure a hassle free journey.

 

[Trainbike46]

Other than to ensure a hassle free journey.

Aren't you allowed to buy change of route excesses on board? If so, how would trying to get an excess in advance lead to a hassle-free journey?

In any case, from what I heard buying zero-fare excesses aren't generally given out as it's just a lot of bother for no advantage?

 

[Haywain]

Aren't you allowed to buy change of route excesses on board? If so, how would trying to get an excess in advance lead to a hassle-free journey?

There are often manual barriers at Euston and getting past them has been noted to be a challenge on occasions even with valid tickets.

 

[Birmingham]

Other than to ensure a hassle free journey.

Which is ironic as obtaining such excess can easily be hassle in itself

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. For instance, if you held an Anytime Return from London Terminals to Leamington Spa, route via Banbury, and wanted to travel via the WCML on a Friday, you could excess it to an Off-Peak Return, route Any Permitted (as there are no longer any peak restrictions on Fridays for Avanti-set Off-Peak tickets out of Euston).

I suspect you'd have trouble actually getting that, as the obvious answer to such a request would be "how do we know you didn't travel outwards in the peak", and you can't excess half of a ticket type change (other than that off peak and super off peak are basically interchangeable as they mean different things on different TOCs).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

Which is ironic as obtaining such excess can easily be hassle in itself

I've never managed to successfully obtain a zero fare excess. Really the railway should sort this one out by changing the most expensive geographic route on each flow to ANY PERMITTED, or if they must put a route in to put one that you can't avoid doing, e.g. MKC to Euston route Bletchley or something.