Railway-wise, what is each country best at?

[nw1]

General points - trains all had very clean toilets, staff often multi-lingual enough to handle basic queries, announcements about catering virtually non-existent. Eg, the German train missing its catering had a lady join serving passengers from a trolley in the bike area but the only people who knew she was there were the passengers in that carriage. And obviously compared to the UK virtually all electric - only seen one DMU so far and that was in Salzburg.

The proportion of electric on the continent compared to the UK is definitely very noticeable.

What was the DMU in Salzburg, incidentally? Have visited there a couple of times and it was all-electric, from what I remember: a good number of long-distance IC services (it's a junction of two IC lines, one north of the Alps and one heading southeast through the Alps), a local stopping service to Munich, and a small S-Bahn network - but they were all electric loco-hauled or EMU.

 

[Segedunum]

The proportion of electric on the continent compared to the UK is definitely very noticeable.

What was the DMU in Salzburg, incidentally? Have visited there a couple of times and it was all-electric, from what I remember: a good number of long-distance IC services (it's a junction of two IC lines, one north of the Alps and one heading southeast through the Alps), a local stopping service to Munich, and a small S-Bahn network - but they were all electric loco-hauled or EMU.

IIRC the line to Braunau am Inn is diesel- I had a 2016+Cityshuttle set on it in 2020.

 

[deltic]

The proportion of electric on the continent compared to the UK is definitely very noticeable.

What was the DMU in Salzburg, incidentally? Have visited there a couple of times and it was all-electric, from what I remember: a good number of long-distance IC services (it's a junction of two IC lines, one north of the Alps and one heading southeast through the Alps), a local stopping service to Munich, and a small S-Bahn network - but they were all electric loco-hauled or EMU.

It was the service to Mühldorf - another very empty train

 

[paul_munich]

What was the DMU in Salzburg, incidentally?

There is 1 tph to Mühldorf(Obb) in Germany, a Diesel-Br 628. More or less the German version of a Pacer!

 

[AdamWW]

There is 1 tph to Mühldorf(Obb) in Germany, a Diesel-Br 628. More or less the German version of a Pacer!

Too many wheels!

And going back to the original theme, if you want 4 wheel passenger vehicles in regular (not preserved) operation then Czechia, Slovakia (and Hungary still?) are now the best I think.

And it's just occurred to me that now in the above mentioned countries they've put coaches made as single units together to make 2 (and more) coach DMUs, they've done the reverse of 155s to 153s.

 

[43096]

Now you mention it, I think the Metro North also had such things (when I looked into it a few years ago - a mix of timetables and Wikipedia info). There was a Hudson valley route which was diesel-hauled, ISTR, and was fast to quite some distance out of New York, perhaps similar to services running fast to Woking on the Southern Region. Also another route which headed up into the wilds of the New York-Connecticut border region, in the foothills of the Appalachians, which also had diesel services in its outermost stretch, if I remember right (with New York passengers needing to change from an EMU to a diesel-hauled train en route, I think).

Metro-North's Hudson line has two elements to the service pattern, an EMU service out to Croton-Harmon (which is the end of the third rail electrification) which serves intermediate stations and is never less than an hourly service (more in the weekday peak and half-hourly at weekends). On top of that there is an hourly (which more in the weekday peaks) loco-hauled service which is limited stop to Croton-Harmon then intermediate stops to Poughkeepsie. It's a really rather European style timetable to it.

The loco-hauled services are powered by the rather splendid P32AC-DM locos, which Amtrak also has 18 of to power its trains over the same route but into New York Penn. Oh and there's a nice cake shop at Tarrytown and an ice-cream shop in Peekskill! Nice views over the Hudson river, too - a very definitely recommended trip.

 

[AdamWW]

Metro-North's Hudson line has two elements to the service pattern, an EMU service out to Croton-Harmon (which is the end of the third rail electrification) which serves intermediate stations and is never less than an hourly service (more in the weekday peak and half-hourly at weekends). On top of that there is an hourly (which more in the weekday peaks) loco-hauled service which is limited stop to Croton-Harmon then intermediate stops to Poughkeepsie. It's a really rather European style timetable to it.

If I've read that properly and the service is more frequent at weekends, I certainly wouldn't take that as a signature of a primarily commuter operation.

The loco-hauled services are powered by the rather splendid P32AC-DM locos, which Amtrak also has 18 of to power its trains over the same route but into New York Penn.

Which are what these days we'd probably call a bi-mode and in previous times an electro-diesel, since the last bit through the tunnels into Grand Central and Penn stations in Manhatten has to be electric (I think by law). It was more fun when they had the FL-9s though.

Nice views over the Hudson river, too - a very definitely recommended trip.

Indeed. Nice photo too.

 

[nw1]

There is 1 tph to Mühldorf(Obb) in Germany, a Diesel-Br 628. More or less the German version of a Pacer!

OK thanks. (Also thanks to other people who had the same thing!)

Must have missed that; I didn't stay longer than around 15-20 mins on the station.

 

[43096]

If I've read that properly and the service is more frequent at weekends, I certainly wouldn't take that as a signature of a primarily commuter operation.

The off-peak weekday service is the least intensive (but still hourly), then weekend, with most intensive being weekday peak services.

Which are what these days we'd probably call a bi-mode and in previous times an electro-diesel, since the last bit through the tunnels into Grand Central and Penn stations in Manhatten has to be electric (I think by law). It was more fun when they had the FL-9s though.

I'd prefer the GEs over the FL-9s.

 

[Austriantrain]

IIRC the line to Braunau am Inn is diesel- I had a 2016+Cityshuttle set on it in 2020.

It still is; as small part has now been electrified and the rest is in the process of being so.

Switzerland - varied - frequent trains but often full of fresh air - waiting for connections means train got later and later meaning passengers missed connections further along the line - however some quite rural stations were surprisingly busy
Austria - again often long local trains 6/8 carriages with few passengers
Germany - again often long local trains with few passengers -

In the countries you mention there is usually quite a dense timetable off-peak too, since we do want rail to be an alternative to the car (e.g. two-hourly is increasingly rare in Austria, its mostly hourly at least - and half-hourly in Switzerland most of the time).

Since, at least in Austria, trains are not shortened off-peak (even if double EMUs, which personally I don’t understand, but it seems the lower number of staff required balances the higher Rolling stock costs), they will often be half-empty off-Peak; and even in the peak at the outer ends of a line.

In general, guidelines for ÖBB are that 2000 passengers a day is the threshold for keeping lines open. In Switzerland, it is considerably lower still.

 

[Segedunum]

Great example from Switzerland today.

RJX369, 1840 Zürich-Salzburg was starting at Buchs due to some sort of fault.

Clear info on the displays was to catch the IC to Sargans which was held a couple of minutes to match the departure time of the RJX service. Clear announcements on board that we needed to change at Sargans and Buchs.

Cross platform Interchange (+3 mins) straight onto the IR to Buchs where we still had eight minutes for a leisurely stroll over to the waiting RJX. The slightly late departure was mitigated by what I assume some generous pathing time.

Nice and simple, nice and clear, conductor came and spoke to everyone asking if they needed help, no overall delay incurred. Perfect.

Perhaps some luck that SBB schedules an IC service two minutes in front of the EC/RJX slot but a great example of two international operators working together.

 

[Austriantrain]

Perhaps some luck that SBB schedules an IC service two minutes in front of the EC/RJX slot but a great example of two international operators working together.

Lucky in this case, but not a coincidence: these two trains must be flighted so to leave room for the S-Bahn and regional trains. In fact, the possible departure time from Zurich is one of the main timetabling constraints for the Zurich - Vienna rjx services.

 

[duesselmartin]

In Switzerland now. There is a lot of slack in the timetable with longer stops in the stations to make up time.
Unlike Germany where the stopping hardly suffices to board.
Clean stations the Swiss are excellent in but also in high standard fares.

 

[Segedunum]

In Switzerland now. There is a lot of slack in the timetable with longer stops in the stations to make up time.
Unlike Germany where the stopping hardly suffices to board.
Clean stations the Swiss are excellent in but also in high standard fares.

In general the timetables seem to be well written and allow for minor delays caused by waiting for connections to be made up.

The most severe delay I had yesterday was 4 minutes in the Fribourg/Freiburg area, though that seems to be currently in a period of major engineering work/rebuilding.

Germany I didn't have a particularly good experience with on Friday. Travelled from Hof to Bamberg to Nürnberg to Augsburg- 20 minute delays on the first two trains then pushing 90 on the third.

 

[johncrossley]

but also in high standard fares.

Because they have to pay for the half fare card. Obviously wages are high as well, so the locals can afford it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Switzerland now. There is a lot of slack in the timetable with longer stops in the stations to make up time.
Unlike Germany where the stopping hardly suffices to board.
Clean stations the Swiss are excellent in but also in high standard fares.

Many people think the Halbtax is a tourist tax. Think of a reasonable fare, double it then sell cards to discount it back to a reasonable level, which tourists won't buy so they can be charged more.

 

[Austriantrain]

Many people think the Halbtax is a tourist tax. Think of a reasonable fare, double it then sell cards to discount it back to a reasonable level, which tourists won't buy so they can be charged more.

It is true up to a point, but the equivalent in Austria was not introduced for that reason (and indeed, at a cost of only 66€ for a year and easily bought online, nowadays it is not a hindrance for tourists anyway, if you plan to do more than a short day return).

 

[philg999]

I guess the Netherlands has a very similar arrangement. For €24 we can get 40% off weekend fares for the card holder and up to 3 friends; or for €60 that also includes off peak weekday fares. Only available to people with a Dutch bank account. Personally I think it’s reasonable that visitors should pay more than frequent travellers.

Many people think the Halbtax is a tourist tax. Think of a reasonable fare, double it then sell cards to discount it back to a reasonable level, which tourists won't buy so they can be charged more

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess the Netherlands has a very similar arrangement. For €24 we can get 40% off weekend fares for the card holder and up to 3 friends; or for €60 that also includes off peak weekday fares. Only available to people with a Dutch bank account. Personally I think it’s reasonable that visitors should pay more than frequent travellers.

That is more like the UK Railcards, which are available to anyone, tourists included. The Network Railcard is perhaps analogous to the "anybody" version given the networks are of a similar size.

 

[DanielB]

I guess the Netherlands has a very similar arrangement. For €24 we can get 40% off weekend fares for the card holder and up to 3 friends; or for €60 that also includes off peak weekday fares. Only available to people with a Dutch bank account. Personally I think it’s reasonable that visitors should pay more than frequent travellers.

Those products are also available to people having foreign bank accounts, albeit slightly more complicated to order (has to be done via customer service).
We've got more variants by the way: 100% off on weekends (40% off off peak on weekdays included) or 100% off for all off peak journeys are also relatively cheap. Most expensive is the card giving 20% off on peak hours and 40% off peak.

 

[Austriantrain]

That is more like the UK Railcards, which are available to anyone, tourists included. The Network Railcard is perhaps analogous to the "anybody" version given the networks are of a similar size.

I couldn’t find any information that the Swiss Halbtax is not available to foreigners. On the contrary, it seems you can buy it online identifying with almost any passport issued worldwide.

 

[johncrossley]

I couldn’t find any information that the Swiss Halbtax is not available to foreigners. On the contrary, it seems you can buy it online identifying with almost any passport issued worldwide.

Is it certainly available. They even do a one month card for non-residents.

Swiss Half Fare Card | Switzerland Travel Centre

With the Swiss Half Fare Card, you can travel throughout Switzerland and benefit from a 50% discount on train, bus and boat journeys – both saving cost and being flexible!

switzerlandtravelcentre.com

Swiss Half Fare Card​

from £ 106

• Unlimited half price tickets on trains, buses, boats and public transport in Switzerland (More on validity).
• Valid for 1 month
• Available to persons permanently resident outside Switzerland and the Principality of Liechtenstein.
• Available as print@home ticket / eTicket

Obviously, though, the cost is prohibitive for most. Undoubtedly, they could reduce the normal fares substantially if they abolished the Half Fare card.

 

[Segedunum]

I'm currently Interrailing in Switzerland and dread to think what the cost would have been otherwise. The value of the pound against the Franc has tumbled in recent months, too.

When I first visited I was getting a Saver day pass for around £29 a day, but I don't think a price quite that low is possible now. Edit: Indeed, it starts at £47.50...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I couldn’t find any information that the Swiss Halbtax is not available to foreigners. On the contrary, it seems you can buy it online identifying with almost any passport issued worldwide.

I didn't say it wasn't, indeed I have had one, I was replying to the posts about the Dutch one.

 

[johncrossley]

I'm currently Interrailing in Switzerland and dread to think what the cost would have been otherwise. The value of the pound against the Franc has tumbled in recent months, too.

When I first visited I was getting a Saver day pass for around £29 a day, but I don't think a price quite that low is possible now. Edit: Indeed, it starts at £47.50...

New rail pass - Saver Day Pass

rockoysterParticipant 8872 posts 2 November 2017 at 5:56:00 #813598 Previously it was necessary to have a half-fare card in order to buy a Saver Day Pass. This is no longer necessary. If you are able to buy a Day Saver Pass around 10 days before travel you can get a DSP for CHF52 (or CHF29...

www.myswissalps.com

This post suggested that it was 52 CHF when it was introduced. If that's the case, then it hasn't even gone up in 5 years!

Previously it was necessary to have a half-fare card in order to buy a Saver Day Pass. This is no longer necessary. If you are able to buy a Day Saver Pass around 10 days before travel you can get a DSP for CHF52 (or CHF29 if you have a Half-fare Card). If you try to buy one a day ahead you pay CHF106 instead of CHF52. So it needs a bit of pre-planning to be properly cost-effective.

Before that ticket came out, travelling in Switzerland was only affordable for most foreigners using Interrail or the Swiss Travel Pass.

 

[Segedunum]

Indeed, you are correct. If that's the case it will have been around £37 with the more favourable exchange rate. (Around 1.36CHF to the pound when I visited in April 2018).

 

[tasky]

Many people think the Halbtax is a tourist tax. Think of a reasonable fare, double it then sell cards to discount it back to a reasonable level, which tourists won't buy so they can be charged more.

There is this aspect to it, but it's as much about shaping the incentive structure for travel as anything else, and encouraging rail use. It encourages locals to invest in a fixed cost (the card) to reduce their variable costs per journey. People feel they have already paid or invested in rail and want to get use out of their investment.

It's similar to the psychology of driving a car – you spend thousands of pounds on a car, and on insurance, and on MOT etc whether you use it or not. But when it comes to how to get somewhere you look at your car in the driveway, and it's only a couple of quid for petrol, or £20 for a rail ticket – so you take the car, because you've already paid. A system like the half-fare card levels the psychological playing field.

 

[Austriantrain]

Obviously, though, the cost is prohibitive for most. Undoubtedly, they could reduce the normal fares substantially if they abolished the Half Fare card.

The cost of the yearly Halbtax at 185 SFR is actually quite reasonable if you plan a decent amount of traveling, considering a full-price oneway ticket from Zurich to Geneva is 88 SFR.

The monthly one you mentioned is indeed expensive, but still easily amortized if you stay for longer and travel around. However, some kind of pass will then usually turn out cheaper if you only plan one stay in Switzerland in any one year.

 

[MarcVD]

The cost of the yearly Halbtax at 185 SFR is actually quite reasonable if you plan a decent amount of traveling, considering a full-price oneway ticket from Zurich to Geneva is 88 SFR..

This is ridiculously expensive. In Belgium, an equivalent ticket, say from Ghent to Arlon, would cost € 21,8. And if you buy a "standard multi" card, you get 10 trips from anywhere to anywhere in Belgium for € 8,4. So I think that in the "which country does what best" list, you can add for Belgium "propose travel at decent prices".

 

[DanielB]

I think you can't see this seperately from the national income. Comparing to the Netherlands for example, a similar distance (Amsterdam to Maastricht) would cost € 27,90. So not even that dissimilar from Belgium.
And getting 40% off peak discount on that ticket would cost only one third of the Swiss halbtax.