Lockdown effects now killing/harming more people than Covid

[kez19]

I’d say the issue is more the extent to which younger people were pressurised to take it, relative to the level of risk to them from Covid if they didn’t.

I still ask the question however how many of those in the media have taken or or not? I partly don’t much care about the celebrities side of it but I wouldn’t mind knowing who in the media has or hasn’t and then include the likes of Devi and the SAGE(s), the media were that quick in condemning people who didn’t take the vaccines so this question should be put back to media themselves or is this going to open another can of worms?

Just to reiterate my standpoint I couldn’t care if someone did or didn’t (yet on a personal level I didn’t want it but had too for the job I’m in however on that side I read somewhere that NHS staff didn’t need to take it anymore or to that degree), but I see information on a personal level feels like it’s in drips and drabs and whether or not if Scottish Government is keeping in align with the UK Government or just pleasing itself.

 

[bengley]

I’d say the issue is more the extent to which younger people were pressurised to take it, relative to the level of risk to them from Covid if they didn’t.

I'm young. I have had 0 doses of the vaccine (and I don't feel my life has been affected as a result, restrictions wise).

I also got COVID in Dec 2021 and it was crap but nothing worth worrying about.

I genuinely believe I was at more risk by taking it than just risking COVID and to be honest I'm bloody glad I stuck with my decision

 

[superalbs]

I'm young. I have had 0 doses of the vaccine (and I don't feel my life has been affected as a result, restrictions wise).

I also got COVID in Dec 2021 and it was crap but nothing worth worrying about.

I genuinely believe I was at more risk by taking it than just risking COVID and to be honest I'm bloody glad I stuck with my decision

Unfortunately, I do a lot of international travel, meaning vaccine requirements (among others) were very challenging at times.

Other countries have had very different restrictions to us in the UK, whilst we mostly avoided vaccine passports, others needed them for pretty much anything.

 

[bengley]

Unfortunately, I do a lot of international travel, meaning vaccine requirements (among others) were very challenging at times.

Other countries have had very different restrictions to us in the UK, whilst we mostly avoided vaccine passports, others needed them for pretty much anything.

Yes, I realise that in the earlier days of lockdowns being lifted that restrictions were a lot harsher. I've waited to travel now and have had no issues (besides masks in Germany). The only place I would like to travel to which I currently can't (but am happy to wait) is North America. Plenty of European exploring to do now restriction free

I've seen your videos, by the way, good stuff - I'm envious of the amount you get away!

 

[superalbs]

Yes, I realise that in the earlier days of lockdowns being lifted that restrictions were a lot harsher. I've waited to travel now and have had no issues (besides masks in Germany). The only place I would like to travel to which I currently can't (but am happy to wait) is North America. Plenty of European exploring to do now restriction free

I've seen your videos, by the way, good stuff - I'm envious of the amount you get away!

Thank you!

And yes, there are a lot of places you can go now with no problems, only a select few still restricted, and as you say, there's plenty of Europe and even some Asia to be caught up on!

 

[DustyBin]

I'm young. I have had 0 doses of the vaccine (and I don't feel my life has been affected as a result, restrictions wise).

I also got COVID in Dec 2021 and it was crap but nothing worth worrying about.

I genuinely believe I was at more risk by taking it than just risking COVID and to be honest I'm bloody glad I stuck with my decision

I’m not that young these days but I’m still of an age where it was/is extremely unlikely that I’d suffer any long term ill effects from Covid. I finally caught it in January of this year and suffered with the full range of symptoms for a few days; not nice but not remotely life threatening.

Like you I’m pleased I declined the vaccine as I seem to now have a good level of immunity having fought off infection naturally. I did consider capitulating at one point as a result of the Government’s appalling attempts at coercion, but I’m pleased I resisted. As I’ve said previously, I don’t know a single person who regrets not getting vaccinated, I do however know a few who wish they hadn’t for various reasons.

 

[Jimini]

Happy to admit (not sure we'd even say that in any other circumstance 2.5 years ago!) that I'm another member of the forum that isn't vaccinated. I'm not against vaccination in any way, shape or form, but I am pro-choice. Something that seems to have passed the world by throughout all of this.

I've not had a cold since 2003. I remember it well -- I was laid up on the sofa for two days and sneezed it out, to be honest, then that was that. So I'm coming up on 20 years of no colds now. I did have Covid over Christmas / New Year 2022. My wife had symptoms so we both took (then free) tests as a result. At no point did I have any symptoms but I had to hide away for ten loooooong days as I kept testing positive. That was one boring New Year!

Having finally (officially, based on the LFT tests?) contracted Covid, my decision turned out to be warranted.

If Covid vaccines were designed to prevent transmission, then I 100% would have had one; however that was never the case. If only the public were made more aware of the status of the vaccines in that respect. I'll never forgive Chris Whitty for standing on that podium and saying "if you haven't got Covid, you can't pass it on". That was one of the biggest lies surrounding the vaccination program that I won't forget in a hurry.

 

[BJames]

I'm young. I have had 0 doses of the vaccine (and I don't feel my life has been affected as a result, restrictions wise).

I also got COVID in Dec 2021 and it was crap but nothing worth worrying about.

I genuinely believe I was at more risk by taking it than just risking COVID and to be honest I'm bloody glad I stuck with my decision

I'm 21 - I have had 2 doses of the vaccine (and I've had covid confirmed twice)

The vast majority of my friends have had 2 doses but before we were threatened with not being able to go to nightclubs and large events the number was much lower. So I guess in that respect it had the desired effect from the government's perspective...

I got the vaccine to go travelling stress-free, and to not have these problems with venues etc. I don't regret the decision I made, because I wanted to be able to leave the UK still - but I won't be having anymore either, and I'm not certain what decision I would have made if there were no restrictions being imposed/threatened on people (added to the fact that I had COVID before the vaccine, in Sept 2020 - two years ago!)

 

[furlong]

everyone is going to be exposed to Sars-CoV-2 so the question was whether or not to expose yourself to the spike protein in the form of a vaccination before encountering the live virus or simply to do battle with the live virus without prior adaptive immunity to it.

The nature and persistence of any future immunity is only one aspect to consider alongside the level of harm an encounter with either the virus or "vaccine" or both might cause to any specific individual. There seem to be good reasons why there were no prior vaccines for this type of virus. The regulations got in the way - that is, the ones that tried to insist on proper evidence from clinical trials prior to approval.

I think it's fair to accept that some of the problems are caused directly by this spike protein itself - multiple plausible mechanisms leading to harm have been suggested - and you should consider this separately from any future immunity that might develop. The delivery mechanisms are quite different, so you can't know a priori whether or not receiving something that could be toxic through an artificial "vaccine" delivery mechanism is better or worse than receiving it through a natural virus delivery mechanism. And that's before you take into account the significant quality control issues allegedly affecting some of the batches of "vaccines".

The triumph of hope over experience.

Example: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-07-coronavirus-spike-protein-natural-immune.html (consider whether "vaccines" might be more effective at getting more significant quantities of spike protein rapidly into the heart than a typical encounter with the virus in the upper airways would achieve)

One of the latest papers: https://www.researchgate.net/public...Genetic_Code_from_SARS-CoV-2_mRNA_Vaccination

A major argument in favor of long-term safety of COVID-19 vaccination, as analyzed by Pardi et al., 2018, was handled by the authors as follows: ‘‘In vaccinated people, the theoretical risks of infection or integration of the vector into host cell DNA are not a concern for mRNA. For the above reasons, mRNA vaccines have been considered a relatively safe vaccine format.’’ However, this seems not to be the case, and safety cannot be presumed...

In addition to the pathogenic potential of endogenously (DNA) encoded spike proteins, we have shown that activation of the cellular enzymatic networks that carry out this DNA integration entail their own distinct and multifaceted pathogenic potential. These risks are expected to be highest in specific vulnerable populations, namely individuals during the developmental phase (children) and patients suffering from malignancy, autoimmune disease, cardiovascular and neurological disease, and genetic disorders. We recognize that it is speculative to suggest that vaccine mRNA could initiate the broad range of pathological events we describe. Given the extensively documented potential for both endogenous (human retroviral) and exogenous (viral) RNA to trigger these events, though, relevant investigations are urgently needed, given the large number of individuals who have been administered one or more of mRNA products coding for the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.

 

[DustyBin]

If Covid vaccines were designed to prevent transmission, then I 100% would have had one; however that was never the case. If only the public were made more aware of the status of the vaccines in that respect. I'll never forgive Chris Whitty for standing on that podium and saying "if you haven't got Covid, you can't pass it on". That was one of the biggest lies surrounding the vaccination program that I won't forget in a hurry.

Exactly. They lied to us throughout the pandemic, whether it be in regard to deaths, masks or indeed vaccines.

I'm 21 - I have had 2 doses of the vaccine (and I've had covid confirmed twice)

The vast majority of my friends have had 2 doses but before we were threatened with not being able to go to nightclubs and large events the number was much lower. So I guess in that respect it had the desired effect from the government's perspective...

I got the vaccine to go travelling stress-free, and to not have these problems with venues etc. I don't regret the decision I made, because I wanted to be able to leave the UK still - but I won't be having anymore either, and I'm not certain what decision I would have made if there were no restrictions being imposed/threatened on people (added to the fact that I had COVID before the vaccine, in Sept 2020 - two years ago!)

I completely understand why you got vaccinated, it was difficult to say no. Surely though this is textbook coercion, and goes completely against the principle of informed consent?

 

[yorksrob]

It seems to me that the mass-vaccination programme got the country out of a tight spot, therefore in the absence of evidence that it is causing an unusual increase in excess morbidity/mortality, I'm supportive of it as it took place at the time. I also think it's right to move to a regime of only regularly vaccinating the vulnerable.

This is more than can be said for lockdown, which is increasingly looking like the wrong strategy.

 

[DustyBin]

It seems to me that the mass-vaccination programme got the country out of a tight spot, therefore in the absence of evidence that it is causing an unusual increase in excess morbidity/mortality, I'm supportive of it as it took place at the time. I also think it's right to move to a regime of only regularly vaccinating the vulnerable.

This is more than can be said for lockdown, which is increasingly looking like the wrong strategy.

I wouldn’t dispute this. I encouraged my older relatives to get vaccinated as I had little doubt that the benefit outweighed any potential harm. What I don’t understand is why those at virtually no risk from Covid were either misled or heavily coerced into being vaccinated. Some of the claims made in regard to the vaccines were demonstrably false; did they deliberately lie or did they simply not know? Either scenario raises serious questions in my opinion.

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldn’t dispute this. I encouraged my older relatives to get vaccinated as I had little doubt that the benefit outweighed any potential harm. What I don’t understand is why those at virtually no risk from Covid were either misled or heavily coerced into being vaccinated. Some of the claims made in regard to the vaccines were demonstrably false; did they deliberately lie or did they simply not know? Either scenario raises serious questions in my opinion.

I've no doubt that there was a hope that the vaccines would have a stronger, wider beneficial impact, however there was an experimental aspect to them at the time.

 

[takno]

I wouldn’t dispute this. I encouraged my older relatives to get vaccinated as I had little doubt that the benefit outweighed any potential harm. What I don’t understand is why those at virtually no risk from Covid were either misled or heavily coerced into being vaccinated. Some of the claims made in regard to the vaccines were demonstrably false; did they deliberately lie or did they simply not know? Either scenario raises serious questions in my opinion.

As an over 40 I had few questions about getting the initial jabs. The continuation of the emergency programme to teenagers, and the use of vaccine passports was really where I thought it got dangerous and demented.

 

[DustyBin]

I've no doubt that there was a hope that the vaccines would have a stronger, wider beneficial impact, however there was an experimental aspect to them at the time.

I suspect you're correct; "hope" appears to have been the operative word, which implies they didn't actually know. Meanwhile we were told the vaccines were fully tested, safe and effective, in which case surely they would have known? There's a lot to untangle here in my opinion.

As an over 40 I had few questions about getting the initial jabs. The continuation of the emergency programme to teenagers, and the use of vaccine passports was really where I thought it got dangerous and demented.

I completely agree.

 

[Eyersey468]

Exactly. They lied to us throughout the pandemic, whether it be in regard to deaths, masks or indeed vaccines.



I completely understand why you got vaccinated, it was difficult to say no. Surely though this is textbook coercion, and goes completely against the principle of informed consent?

I agree with all of this. I will never forgive them for it.

 

[greyman42]

Exactly. They lied to us throughout the pandemic, whether it be in regard to deaths, masks or indeed vaccines.

I am not sure what lies they told about vaccines, but they did lie about deaths and masks and neither the opposition nor most of the media questioned it. In fact they doubled down on it.

I'll never forgive Chris Whitty for standing on that podium and saying "if you haven't got Covid, you can't pass it on". That was one of the biggest lies surrounding the vaccination program that I won't forget in a hurry.

How is that a lie. If you have not got the virus then surely you cannot pass it on?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

I genuinely believe I was at more risk by taking it than just risking COVID and to be honest I'm bloody glad I stuck with my decision

You make it sound as if people who took the vaccine are suffering serious side effects.

 

[Eyersey468]

I am not sure what lies they told about vaccines, but they did lie about deaths and masks and neither the opposition nor most of the media questioned it. In fact they doubled down on it.

How is that a lie. If you have not got the virus then surely you cannot pass it on?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==


You make it sound as if people who took the vaccine are suffering serious side effects.

Some people but by no means all are suffering from serious side effects.

 

[bramling]

I am not sure what lies they told about vaccines, but they did lie about deaths and masks and neither the opposition nor most of the media questioned it. In fact they doubled down on it.

How is that a lie. If you have not got the virus then surely you cannot pass it on?

There was certainly a heavy implication at the time that “how would you feel if you don’t take the vaccine and then pass Covid on to granny?”, which of course never quite added up as granny would be vaccinated, so then it changed from granny to those who can’t take the vaccine for whatever reason.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==


You make it sound as if people who took the vaccine are suffering serious side effects.

One way or other plenty of people are complaining of weird things since having taken it. I know someone who’s now got a quite nasty rash down both legs, which no one in the medical sector seems to be able to get to the bottom of. It doesn’t help that the health care system closed its shutters for many months.

 

[Razorblades]

You make it sound as if people who took the vaccine are suffering serious side effects.

Some will be, it's a statistical certainty. However, the level of side effects is naturally a subject of heightened (or stifled?) debate, with a great deal of reputation, credibility and even wealth at risk for the various stakeholders.

The UK's Yellow Card reporting gives a sobering baseline in the latest report, issued on September 1st.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1101932/Coronavirus_Vaccine_-_Summary_of_Yellow_Card_reporting_24.08.2022.pdf

 

[greyman42]

Some people but by no means all are suffering from serious side effects.

A very small percentage which would not justify withdrawing the vaccines or advising people not to take them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

The UK's Yellow Card reporting gives a sobering baseline in the latest report, issued on September 1st.

How does it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

One way or other plenty of people are complaining of weird things since having taken it.

I think some people will just look to blame the vaccine for anything.

 

[Razorblades]

How does it?


I think some people will just look to blame the vaccine for anything.

How? By including tabulated data of reported side-effects with quantified case rates. I have provided the link so that viewers can access these tables as and if they so wish.

If* I personally knew someone who died within 72 hours of receiving a Covid jab, who was otherwise fit and healthy and under the age of 65, then I would be raising an eyebrow.

(* I know two)

 

[Markdvdman]

There is a rep we work with who is about 55 and a very fit semi-pro cyclist. After his first jab he was laid low for 6 months. He still has not felt the same since. So YES there are genuine issues. I have had all 3 simply as I have to travel to West Wales to see my girlfriend. However, I am NOT taking up the 4th - it should be left for the vulnerable only as society cannot afford to waste the money that we have not got! It baffles me!!!

 

[greyman42]

How? By including tabulated data of reported side-effects with quantified case rates. I have provided the link so that viewers can access these tables as and if they so wish.

If* I personally knew someone who died within 72 hours of receiving a Covid jab, who was otherwise fit and healthy and under the age of 65, then I would be raising an eyebrow.

(* I know two)

I don't know anyone who has died from covid, let alone the covid jab, so perhaps that is why i am not raising an eyebrow.
It is a tiny percentage of the total number of people vaccinated who have died as a result of the vaccination, so i hardly find the report sobering.

 

[MikeWM]

A very small percentage which would not justify withdrawing the vaccines or advising people not to take them.

It would justify withdrawing the vaccine *for certain groups* if it were the case that the risk of serious injury or death from the vaccine were greater than the risk of serious injury or death from getting Covid in the first place. Say healthy under-30s, for example, who in my opinion should never have been part of the vaccine rollout in the first place. Even if the risk from the vaccine is very small for them, so is the risk from Covid.

'First do no harm', a rather basic principle of medicine that the medical establishment appear to have forgotten, along with much else recently.

Recall that even the JCVI - not exactly a group of anti-vaxxers! - didn't recommend rolling out the vaccine to under-16s for precisely that reason - they said the risks didn't outweigh the benefits in the medical sense. They only approved it in the end by adding some nonsense about reducing the number of missed days of school, which is totally irrelevant to whether someone should undergo a medical procedure or not.

 

[Razorblades]

I don't know anyone who has died from covid, let alone the covid jab, so perhaps that is why i am not raising an eyebrow.
It is a tiny percentage of the total number of people vaccinated who have died as a result of the vaccination, so i hardly find the report sobering.

I am pleased for you. Incidentally, I don't know anyone who has been even moderately sick from Covid, let alone died of it.

I think these individual experiences really do underscore the need for a neutral, scientifically-grounded investigation and discussion of the whole headlong vaccine-rush, and its impact, both good and bad.

I have many jabbed friends who appear to consciously turn a blind eye to any negative reports of jab side-effects or deaths, because they're okay, as are their loved ones. I also know unjabbed individuals who don't have any axe to grind and appear completely neutral; so long as they are not forced into surrendering their own bodily autonomy, they're quite happy that the rest of the populace decides for itself what to do about an external threat.

This decision should be based on full disclosure of information, however, not a possibly specious narrative branded 'The Science' and presented as though it were a religious tract.

 

[Jimini]

How is that a lie. If you have not got the virus then surely you cannot pass it on?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

You’ve only quoted a portion of my original post, the remainder of which has all the necessary context for you to work it out.

 

[bengley]

You make it sound as if people who took the vaccine are suffering serious side effects.

Some are.

I'm not an anti vaxxer either, I've had all of my other innoculations but I made an informed choice not to have the COVID vaccine and I'm bloody glad I did. I didn't need it and am quite happy and healthy having not had it.

 

[DustyBin]

I am not sure what lies they told about vaccines, but they did lie about deaths and masks and neither the opposition nor most of the media questioned it. In fact they doubled down on it.

In regard to the vaccines, initially we were told they prevented infection, and when that became demonstrably untrue we were told they prevented transmission. We were also told they offered “better” (requires definition) protection than infection acquired immunity, again completely untrue and something they’re slowly but surely rolling back on.

Of course they may have genuinely believed all of the above, but they also claimed that the vaccines were fully tested and no way “experimental”. You can’t have your cake and eat it; either way I can’t see how they didn’t lie.

 

[yorksrob]

I suspect you're correct; "hope" appears to have been the operative word, which implies they didn't actually know. Meanwhile we were told the vaccines were fully tested, safe and effective, in which case surely they would have known? There's a lot to untangle here in my opinion.

I remember the reports in the news.

It was apparent fairly early on that they were effective at preventing serious illness.

It took time to work out that the preventing serious illness part continued fairly well into the future while the preventing transmission side of things dropped off more quickly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2022 ==

In regard to the vaccines, initially we were told they prevented infection, and when that became demonstrably untrue we were told they prevented transmission. We were also told they offered “better” (requires definition) protection than infection acquired immunity, again completely untrue and something they’re slowly but surely rolling back on.

Of course they may have genuinely believed all of the above, but they also claimed that the vaccines were fully tested and no way “experimental”. You can’t have your cake and eat it; either way I can’t see how they didn’t lie.

They did/do prevent transmission - certainly to an extent. Just not for as long as was hoped.